fat bashing and body acceptance - Page 3

Grausamkeit · 06-22-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

You only find it insulting because of your own prejudiced views of being fat.
If you're size 10, you ARE fat. It's not my fault you believe that being fat and being morbidly obese are synonymous.

A size 10 is not fat for my height. I'm 5'7" and have no double chin or rolls hanging anywhere.

Alan · 06-22-2011, 02:07 PM

Again, fat people do not have to have double chins. Jesus, you're so prejudiced.

Grausamkeit · 06-22-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

Again, fat people do not have to have double chins. Jesus, you're so prejudiced.

You call me fat and then tell me I'm prejudiced because I don't just accept your definition of me as being fat? I find that hysterical coming from someone who considers themselves a 'fattist'. You can't even debate properly. You're like a wildly swinging hammer that keeps pounding at whatever it hits no matter how inconsequential.

Saya · 06-22-2011, 02:15 PM

You weren't there for when we decided size 12 is fat, huh?

Alan · 06-22-2011, 02:17 PM

Grausamkeit reminds me of the Dominicans who say "I'm not black! Black people can't read!"

Grausamkeit · 06-22-2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

Grausamkeit reminds me of the Dominicans who say "I'm not black! Black people can't read!"

Sure, skin color has as much to do with being fat as sexuality does. Both of those are things that are not only not unhealthy, but things that people can't change.

If saying that "being fat is unhealthy" is prejudiced, then so is telling smokers that "smoking is unhealthy." Both of these things are something that affects the health of people and they are both things that people can change in their lives to improve their health. They have also both been medically proven to be detrimental to people's health.

v This is prejudice. v

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

I know some people are overweight because of legitimate biological reasons but even knowing that it still irks me.

The thing is, I am not prejudiced against fat people. You are. You said that it "irks" you when people are fat, even if they have a medical condition. It doesn't 'irk' me or bother me in the slightest how much someone else weighs. It's none of my business.

Quote:

The present data refute the notion that overweight and obesity without MetS are benign conditions.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/cont...A.109.887521v1

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-02-...-fat-diet.html

Those are the most recent articles I've found, but science has linked being overweight to cancer as well as heart disease and a lot of other health issues. So, yes, apparently being overweight really is unhealthy.

Saya · 06-22-2011, 08:17 PM

Correlation does not imply causation, if overweight people are more prone to health conditions, it might not be the weight itself, but unhealthy habits, such as over eating or as in the second link you posted, a high fat diet, in this way the weight is a possible symptom, not the cause of these conditions. Its certainly possible to be "fat" and eat healthy and be active and not have a worry in the world, and its possible to be skinny and eat nothing but cholesterol and die at age 40.

What I was alluding to earlier about the size thing is that its hard to say who's fat and who's not. In the first link, they used BMI which is holy hell unreliable, again it tells me I'm anorexic and it tells MC that she's obese. A year or two ago I posted something in spooky news about someone quitting a fashion show because the designer decided to use "plus sized" models, who were size 12. Most people said that 12 is fat, 8 is the ideal attractive size. It got pretty ugly, and just goes to show that the definition of what is fat is often very subjective.

Which is why I prefer to say "sizeism" anyway.

Pineapple_Juice · 06-22-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saya

You weren't there for when we decided size 12 is fat, huh?

oh thank god, i'm at least two sizes away from being fat then.

Saya · 06-22-2011, 08:24 PM

I think I recall it was a UK 12 :x Or maybe it was a 14, I can't recall.

But a US 10 and 12 is considered a medium, when I worked in retail. 14-16 is "large", 18 is "extra large".

And you're not fat, chicken legs.

Alan · 06-22-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grausamkeit

Sure, skin color has as much to do with being fat as sexuality does. Both of those are things that are not only not unhealthy, but things that people can't change.

The point, you idiot, is that you CHANGE the meaning of fat so that YOU don't fit into it.

Quote:

If saying that "being fat is unhealthy" is prejudiced, then so is telling smokers that "smoking is unhealthy." Both of these things are something that affects the health of people and they are both things that people can change in their lives to improve their health. They have also both been medically proven to be detrimental to people's health.

Except saying "fat people are unhealthy, PERIOD" is more akin to saying "any type of smoking is unhealthy, PERIOD"

That is my problem with you, you refuse to acknowledge that you're wrong in saying "being fat is unhealthy, period"
Being overweight might be unhealthy. Being obese is certainly unhealthy. But being fat is not, and you look more and more pathetic every time you fix the definition of being fat just so that you conveniently manage to fall outside of it so you can still look down on fat people.

CptSternn · 06-23-2011, 01:09 AM

If you are going to engage in fat bashing, you should probably make sure yer microphone is not on.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/28313662/detail.html

Quote:

The Southwest Airlines pilot, who was not identified by the FAA or the airline, could be heard talking to his co-pilot in the cockpit, expressing frustration over the airline hiring so many flight attendants that he found to be unsuitable for dating.

"A continuous stream of gays and grannies and grandes"

Grausamkeit · 06-23-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saya

Correlation does not imply causation, if overweight people are more prone to health conditions, it might not be the weight itself, but unhealthy habits, such as over eating or as in the second link you posted, a high fat diet, in this way the weight is a possible symptom, not the cause of these conditions. Its certainly possible to be "fat" and eat healthy and be active and not have a worry in the world, and its possible to be skinny and eat nothing but cholesterol and die at age 40.

What I was alluding to earlier about the size thing is that its hard to say who's fat and who's not. In the first link, they used BMI which is holy hell unreliable, again it tells me I'm anorexic and it tells MC that she's obese. A year or two ago I posted something in spooky news about someone quitting a fashion show because the designer decided to use "plus sized" models, who were size 12. Most people said that 12 is fat, 8 is the ideal attractive size. It got pretty ugly, and just goes to show that the definition of what is fat is often very subjective.

Which is why I prefer to say "sizeism" anyway.

I don't completely agree with the BMI measurement thing, either. I would prefer to look at size in relation to height and activity to determine health, but my point with posting that was to prove to that I can back up my own argument. Whereas some people are only relying on bad analogies to prove a losing argument.

Alan-of-the-Bad-Analogies, I never changed the meaning of fat. Just because a bunch of people on a forum voted on what 'fat' is doesn't make it truth. I stated what I think fat is, you stated what you think it is. Neither of us is wrong just because our opinions on it differ. It does not make someone an 'idiot' just because they don't agree with you. It does make a person an idiot when they project their own bullshit on someone and can't even back up there own arguments properly. You are the one who looks down on fat people and it obviously bugs you so much when someone you think is fat refuses your definition of it. I think your sizeism(thanks, Saya!) issues are affecting your judgement.

I don't know why it's so important for you to see me as 'the fat girl who looks down on fat people.' Prejudice is your issue dude, not mine. Quit projecting.

CptSternn · 06-23-2011, 11:18 AM

The former Minister of Health for Ireland was Mary Harney.

She too argued that you cannot judge obesity just by looking at someone or even by using the BMI index. She said you had to look at other factors as well, like the height/weight ratio.

I always though when looking at her if her height/weight ratio were truly to be in proper proportion she would have to be eleven foot tall.

Alan · 06-23-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grausamkeit

I never changed the meaning of fat. Just because a bunch of people on a forum voted on what 'fat' is doesn't make it truth. I stated what I think fat is, you stated what you think it is. Neither of us is wrong just because our opinions on it differ.

Are you an idiot? I'm not going by a consensus on what we 'decided' is fat. They're saying size 12 is what constitutes fat. Why the hell are you not the one latching to their standards as their 'definition' wouldn't make you fat by two sizes?

But definitions are not a matter of voting. Being fat means you have unnecessary fat. You ARE fat. It's not a matter of opinion that you're not skinny.
You know what IS a matter of opinion? Whether my analogies are bad or not, and it's clear you're just saying that because you're feeling insulted. What is NOT a matter of opinion is that an absolutist claim cannot be hypocritically adjusted. You say "fat people are healthy, PERIOD" and then fat people just classifies those YOU want to call fat people? How convenient.

Angelic Dissonance2 · 06-23-2011, 12:28 PM

Whenever a 'Mega-Green Tea' commercial comes on, I fume. Weight loss products are prostitution(metaphorically speaking).

Look, man, WHY DON'T WE ALL JUST FOCUS ON BEING ABLE TO WALK A MILE OR TWO WITHOUT DYING OF A MYOCARDIAL INFARCTION, INSTEAD OF STARING IN THE MIRROR!??!?!

Because that's what we're doing, whether we're doing it literally or figuratively. When we look at other people and try to decide whether or not they are fat, we're just trying to find something to judge ourselves against.

How about judging ourselves against a mountain? Or a park trail? Or a few city blocks...?

Pineapple_Juice · 06-23-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saya

I think I recall it was a UK 12 :x Or maybe it was a 14, I can't recall.

But a US 10 and 12 is considered a medium, when I worked in retail. 14-16 is "large", 18 is "extra large".

And you're not fat, chicken legs.

Well im not skinny either, but thats sort of what i was pointing out-the relativity of size 10.

Grausamkeit · 06-23-2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

Are you an idiot? I'm not going by a consensus on what we 'decided' is fat. They're saying size 12 is what constitutes fat. Why the hell are you not the one latching to their standards as their 'definition' wouldn't make you fat by two sizes?

But definitions are not a matter of voting. Being fat means you have unnecessary fat. You ARE fat. It's not a matter of opinion that you're not skinny.
You know what IS a matter of opinion? Whether my analogies are bad or not, and it's clear you're just saying that because you're feeling insulted. What is NOT a matter of opinion is that an absolutist claim cannot be hypocritically adjusted. You say "fat people are healthy, PERIOD" and then fat people just classifies those YOU want to call fat people? How convenient.

Cool story, bro! I didn't realize that there were only 'fat' or 'skinny' people in your world.

Quote:

Look, man, WHY DON'T WE ALL JUST FOCUS ON BEING ABLE TO WALK A MILE OR TWO WITHOUT DYING OF A MYOCARDIAL INFARCTION, INSTEAD OF STARING IN THE MIRROR!??!?!

Because that's what we're doing, whether we're doing it literally or figuratively. When we look at other people and try to decide whether or not they are fat, we're just trying to find something to judge ourselves against.

I agree with you. Judging people negatively like some people do based on their weight is wrong.

Pineapple_Juice · 06-23-2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

Are you an idiot? I'm not going by a consensus on what we 'decided' is fat. They're saying size 12 is what constitutes fat. Why the hell are you not the one latching to their standards as their 'definition' wouldn't make you fat by two sizes?

But definitions are not a matter of voting. Being fat means you have unnecessary fat. You ARE fat. It's not a matter of opinion that you're not skinny.

By that reasoning, arent like 90% of people fat?

JCC · 06-23-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple_Juice

By that reasoning, arent like 90% of people fat?

I think that's a fair assessment.

Alan · 06-23-2011, 01:28 PM

Which is only a bad thing for those who already felt that being fat is bad.

Saya · 06-23-2011, 01:32 PM

Like you?

I found the thread, it was UK size 12, which is a ten here, isn't it? http://gothic.net/boards/showthread....ghlight=models

When I worked in retail, 12 is the most common size and is pretty healthy, 10 is a bit before average. If fat is "overweight", then 10 isn't fat. You can be the perfect weight and be a size 10.

MissCheyenne · 06-23-2011, 01:39 PM

We ALL judge. I do it when I see a woman I can reasonably guess wears a dress size 16-18 (UK) and she's stuffing her face with a pie or chips (chips are what you in the US call fries right?), I look at her and wonder why she doesn't have, you know, a salad or something. I fight with my weight all the time and while I may be classed as obese by the BMI scale, I'm a damn sight healthier than a lot of much thinner people I know. I don't much care if people think I'm fat, I'm healthy and that is what's important to me.

Saya · 06-23-2011, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissCheyenne

We ALL judge. I do it when I see a woman I can reasonably guess wears a dress size 16-18 (UK) and she's stuffing her face with a pie or chips (chips are what you in the US call fries right?), I look at her and wonder why she doesn't have, you know, a salad or something. I fight with my weight all the time and while I may be classed as obese by the BMI scale, I'm a damn sight healthier than a lot of much thinner people I know. I don't much care if people think I'm fat, I'm healthy and that is what's important to me.

We all judge, but the truth of the matter is that when we use the word "Fat", we do mean it in a negative way, it hasn't exactly been reclaimed like queer has. Alan already said "fat" people irk him and upset him, and according to the old thread Wolfie's size would have been considered plus sized and fat. And in a totally negative way.

MissCheyenne · 06-23-2011, 01:48 PM

Thing is, though I don't especially want an argument about it, Alan's been consistently pointing out there is a huge difference between being 'fat' and being morbidly obese. Which there is. I can only fairly use myself as an example, I'm fit, healthy and my body fat percentage is well within the normal range yet because of how much I weigh and how short I am, I'm classed as obese and I have nothing but shit from my GP about me losing weight. Also, I have HUGE fucking hips, so there's no way in hell I'd ever squeeze those bad boys into a size 8, no matter how hard I tried

Alan · 06-23-2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saya

If fat is "overweight", then 10 isn't fat.

Ah, but it isn't, is it?

Just flip it around and see the absurdity of Grausamkeit's stance.
We all know anorexia is a serious and unhealthy thing.
Then I come around and say "being skinny is unhealthy, period"
Someone tells me "but you're also skinny"
Does it make sense for me to say "I'm not skinny! Skinny people are unhealthy!"
or would it make more sense to say "Hm, that's true, maybe it's not just that skinny people are unhealthy, it's that being MORBIDLY skinny is unhealthy. I shouldn't be talking in such stupid absolutes"