Longer days of school

OnyxBat · 09-27-2010, 01:53 PM

"By ERICA WERNER, Associated Press Writer Erica Werner, Associated Press Writer – 33 mins ago
WASHINGTON – Barely into the new school year, President Barack Obama issued a tough-love message to students and teachers on Monday: Their year in the classroom should be longer, and poorly performing teachers should get out.

American students are falling behind their foreign counterparts, especially in math and science, and that's got to change, Obama said. Seeking to revive a sense of urgency that education reform may have lost amid the recession's focus on the economy, Obama declared that the future of the country is at stake.

"Whether jobs are created here, high-end jobs that support families and support the future of the American people, is going to depend on whether or not we can do something about these schools," the president said in an interview on NBC's "Today" show.

U.S. schools through high school offer an average of 180 instruction days per year, according to the Education Commission of the States, compared to an average of 197 days for lower grades and 196 days for upper grades in countries with the best student achievement levels, including Japan, South Korea, Germany and New Zealand.

"That month makes a difference," the president said. "It means that kids are losing a lot of what they learn during the school year during the summer. It's especially severe for poorer kids who may not see as many books in the house during the summers, aren't getting as many educational opportunities."

Obama said teachers and their profession should be more highly honored — as in China and some other countries, he said — and he said he wanted to work with the teachers' unions. But he also said that unions should not defend a status quo in which one-third of children are dropping out. He challenged them not to be resistant to change.

And the president endorsed the firing of teachers who, once given the chance and the help to improve, are still falling short.

"We have got to identify teachers who are doing well. Teachers who are not doing well, we have got to give them the support and the training to do well. And if some teachers aren't doing a good job, they've got to go," Obama said.

They're goals the president has articulated in the past, but his ability to see them realized is limited. States set the minimum length of school years, and although there's experimentation in some places, there's not been wholesale change since Obama issued the same challenge for more classroom time at the start of the past school year.

One issue is money, and although the president said that lengthening school years would be "money well spent," that doesn't mean cash-strapped states and districts can afford it.

"It comes down to the old bugaboo, resources. It costs money to keep kids in school," said Mayor Scott Smith of Mesa, Ariz. "Everyone believes we can achieve greater things if we have a longer school year. The question is how do you pay for it."

One model is Massachusetts, where the state issues grants to districts that set out clear plans on how they would use the money to constructively lengthen instructional class time, said Kathy Christie, chief of staff at the Education Commission of the States. Obama's Education Department already is using competitions among states for curriculum grant money through its "Race to the Top" initiative.

"The federal carrots of additional money would help more states do it or schools do it in states where they don't have a state grant process," Christie said.

But the federal budget is hard-up, too. And while many educators believe students would benefit from more quality learning time, the idea is not universally popular.

In Kansas, sporadic efforts by local districts to extend the school year at even a few schools have been met by parental resistance, said state education commissioner Diane DeBacker.

"It's been tried," she said, describing one instance of a Topeka-area elementary school that scrapped year-round schooling after just one year. "The community was just not ready for kids to be in school all summer long. Kids wanted to go swimming. Their families wanted to go on vacation."

Teachers' unions say they're open to the discussion of longer classroom time, but they also say that pay needs to be part of the conversation. As for Obama's call for ousting underperforming teachers, National Education Association President Dennis Van Roekel said unions weren't the main stumbling block there, as many education reformers assert.

"No one wants an incompetent teacher in the classroom," Van Roekel said. "It's in the hiring, and in those first three to five years no teacher has the right to due process."

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Just watch, our high school drop out reates are going to blow the roof off!
This dude needs to straighten his nuts out.

CptSternn · 09-28-2010, 01:23 AM

Nothing wrong with that sure. Especially since America is falling behind pretty much every other developed nation in education.

OnyxBat · 09-28-2010, 01:54 PM

Right but then there are the lazy ass kids who plan to drop out at 16 with just getting their parents to sign the paper soooo there wont be that big of results.

gothicusmaximus · 09-28-2010, 03:08 PM

Maybe OnyxBat is a troll.

Alan · 09-28-2010, 03:34 PM

Damn communofascist islamojew Obama, trying to give a decent education to our children and improving the way society sees its educators!
I'm totally with you Onyx.

Sinjob · 09-28-2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxBat

Right but then there are the lazy ass kids who plan to drop out at 16 with just getting their parents to sign the paper soooo there wont be that big of results.

Said the 14-year-old.

OnyxBat · 09-29-2010, 02:18 PM

Yes Sin, says the 14 year old because its true.

Sinjob · 09-29-2010, 02:29 PM

Hahaha I know.

But you gotta admit it's funny...(and don't get me wrong I'm 16)

OnyxBat · 09-29-2010, 02:35 PM

yeah, yeah what ever

OnyxBat · 09-29-2010, 02:37 PM

I thought you were older Sin

Solumina · 09-29-2010, 05:14 PM

You know what would work better than just telling people to pull funding out of their asses is to redistribute school days. Year round school with the same number of vacation days would be much easier to acclimate to than adding any more days and it would solve the problem of kids forgetting what they learned over long breaks. They could also try going to 4 day weeks with longer days to save money on energy and transport costs but nobody seems to want to do that because it interferes with after school programs.

There is one major problem that nobody can really make any attempt to fix: parents that just don’t give a shit. My old roommate Em teaches 6th grade in one of the best school systems in the US and she only started teaching this year, the shitty parents have already made themselves well know. She has had parents scream at her for telling their kids what to do or for disciplining them in any way. She has had parents threaten to have her fired because she wouldn’t just give their kid an A for trying, despite the fact that it was a multiple choice test. She has had parents call and/or email her telling her that their kid needed to be exempt from assignments because they would be too busy with a concert/sporting event/random thing, she has even had one gem of a mother tell her that a student would need to be exempt from any weekend assignments because he has "better shit to do with his time" and complained to the principal when she said that unfortunately that was not possible and that if he missed any assignments then his grades may suffer.

ape descendant · 10-01-2010, 10:44 AM

Yeah, I don't think throwing money at the problem of education is really going to help much, without social change amongst parents and students.

I mean really, how many kids go home from school and continue to learn? How many parents actively teach their children at home especially during the summer?

This reminds me of an incredibly sad thing that happened this summer.

We were hanging out with friends, and there were some kids present as it was a 4th of July celebration. We were talking to this 11 year old kid about how firecrackers work and the science involved.... when it came up that were were talking about science, the kid just kinda shut off... when we questioned him about why he didn't like science... his response was that "it goes against god".

We do need a change, but I don't think its the kind that can be written into any law that could possibly be constitutional.

Fruitbat · 10-02-2010, 04:09 AM

Sol I'm afraid your right about parents not giving a shit. I get so darn mad when i see parents yelling at their kids or treating them poorly, shoving junkfood in their faces.

Education begins at home, it begins when they are tiny little ones. over here we have a lot of Baby Einstein (sp?) crap, which you are supposed to put your kid in front of a DVD and the kid is supposed to be smart. Studies show that it is the language used at home that makes a difference.

Human interaction, speaking with the child, reading to the child all makes a difference - dumping the child in front of the TV doesn't, neither does limiting the potential of the child by forcing narrow minded beliefs on the child.

Children should be encouraged to reach for the stars. How else is humanity going to better itself if they aren't?

*climbs down off soapbox*

Alan · 10-02-2010, 08:33 AM

You guys have no thoughts on the article so you just mention the barely related but entirely inconsequential cliché of "education should begin at home"

Fruitbat · 10-02-2010, 11:40 PM

Alan - your 100% correct. I suck.

And sorry you won't get a deep and meaningful discussion out of me because at the moment I don't have the time or headspace to put together an argument on a subject that affects people on the otherside of the globe.

And to be perfectly frank what happens in the US school system doesn't affect me, so therefore I'm not that concerned. Just as I'm sure that people in the US are not concerned with what happens in Australian schools.