For your daily dose of rage

[The Passage]

This guy can't even pronounce the word "against" correctly. That automatically discredits everything he has to say. Simply put, he's an utter moron. No where in the bible does it say that "God" is "AGAINT" LGBT peoples. NO WHERE!!!

Morons.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by AshleyO

Now Saya, while I agree that that knowledge is rather privileged; does not mean that noble lies are a suitable alternative to meaningful knowledge.

o_0

That knowledge can only be meaningful if you understand it, and if its true. What I learned was true in high school science is actually now considered pretty inaccurate, its not meant to be solid knowledge to hold onto, just what we can know for now. Science and spirituality deal with totally different things and its not just one or the other.

[AshleyO]

Originally Posted by Saya

That knowledge can only be meaningful if you understand it, and if its true. What I learned was true in high school science is actually now considered pretty inaccurate, its not meant to be solid knowledge to hold onto, just what we can know for now. Science and spirituality deal with totally different things and its not just one or the other.

Would you mind letting me know when prayer can start regenerating amputee limbs? Someone's understanding of science can be wrong and can be updated, but even if their scientific understanding is wrong, it's fallacious to seek out a spiritual explanation to actual real and rational explanations.

*sigh* This is also where we both bump heads. You tend to tread into territory that sounds like you think we live in some kind of fantasy world much like... I don't even know. Something to do with fairies and shit like "souls".

Saya, please don't make the mistake of saying that spirituality is immune to scientific inquiry or that spirituality is actually real because we can't prove it doesn't exist. That kind of shit permits any kind of half baked fever dreams to be held as truth and that is... well, stupid.

Or are you talking about shit that's actually psychological and not so supernatural?

Maybe I don't know what the word spirituality means. When I hear that word, I understand it as something transcendent of this material world such as supernatural or special extra natural connections to something that ISN'T material and is independent of the mind. Much like the concept of a soul.

It's not that I have this weird notion that it's either one or the other, science or spirituality. It is that one is measurably verifiable and correct even if it needs to be amended. The other is speculation, wishful thinking, and confirmation bias.

You come off as if spirituality (again maybe you're changing the definition of the word where psychology would be more appropriate) is some kind of empirical truth. Almost as if you're saying people AREN'T being delusional or they're NOT being hysterical or they're NOT hallucinating. I'm almost starting to think it wouldn't be beyond you to think speaking in tongues is empirical evidence of Yahwey.

[AshleyO]

Alright. I went and looked it up to get a better grasp of what I think you mean.

So if I'm getting you right, when you mention spirituality you mean:

The psychological habits and rituals one would employ to trick themselves into a more appropriate outlook on life or a given situation. As in we meditate to convince ourselves that the cigar is more than just a cigar. A means of trying to make the mundane more important than it already is; creating artificial value to make certain things more important than they inherently are. Kind of like a coping mechanism. In a sense, a person worships the spirit of a mountain (there is no spirit) because they lack the means of expressing in appropriate words in how they really really like that mountain.

Is that more in line with what you're talking about?

[Versus]

She's totally sleeping.

[AshleyO]

Well then what do you think she means?

[Saya]

I use Foucault's definition of spirituality, a process a person puts themselves through to access truth, or allow truth to transform the subject.

This can be a psychological process, psychotherapy has been criticized as being too spiritual in the past. Or in the Buddhist sense the idea is that the human mind is too emotional, irrational, fleeting and biased to simply experience reality as it is, so meditation is needed to focus ourselves. Or in the Kierkegaard sense that being Christian truly means hard work and seeking a relationship with God. The types of spirtuality are varied and I wouldn't argue that all are equally good, but Foucault's definition I think covers most if not all spiritual traditions.

[AshleyO]

Ooh. Okay. That makes sense. I was about to ask you if maybe you thought spirituality was supernaturally meaningful or if it was entirely psychological.

I think I get you now.

[Versus]

I couldn't articulate it like that, but yeah. I've started to understand spirituality as a certain way that a person finds meaning and belonging within their existence, their universe. In a sense, I can relate to that. I don't necessarily resonate with religion, but I have found meaning in worse things and can't really judge someone for gravitating toward something like that.

[ape descendant]

Some one else had that whole idea about putting people in camps and stuff... who was that? Ah well, it'll come to me.

[AshleyO]

In other news, I have a 4 hour trip I have to make. So I'll be reading "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong. I think it's going to be a good read.