Christianity: Too controlling?

[655322]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfMoon
Christianity is as controlling or as free as you want. Depending on which branch of it you belong to.

Christianity is as controlling or as free as you want. Depending on if you belong to it at all.

My vote goes to........ the Baptists as the most controlling. But any fundamentalism in any religion is scary.

[Jane13]

Ah... I thought the question "How much or what kind" applied only to dietary questions I think perhaps it is a mix of both.

Sister Rosemary is pretty cool and non-judgemental... you know, how nuns are SUPPOSED to be but often aren't.

[655322]

I think people in general should be cool and non-judgemental, not just nuns.

My vote goes to...... dairy produce as the best for strong bones and teeth.

[WolfMoon]

655 is right aboput the Baptists. (Now don't get your ire up Ghostie, I'm not talking about every Baptist) The baptism that I grew up around sure seemed to have been firmly grounded in fundementalism, though.

[655322]

'course the MOST powerful and controlling Christian branch in the world is the U.S. Supreme Court.

[succubus,queenofvampires]

What characterizes the Baptists? How are they different from Catholics or other branches of Christianity?

I'm sorry I'm asking a lot of questions, but around here there are no Baptists( I think), so I don't know about them...

[spookypurple]

Have the 'powers that be' come up with the more restrictive of rules, or did they originate elsewhere? By that I mean, do you reckon the control is divine or man-made?

[Jane13]

The Baptists came from a movement that came at about the same time as Martain Luther. They were origionaly called "Anabaptists" (re-baptisers) because they believe that only an adult can make the descision to become baptised, and since they were born in Catholic places, they had to be rebaptised. Since their children, however, were not baptised as babies, the "ana" part was dropped.

The Baptists, along with many protestant faiths, beleive in "justification through faith", that is, that one is made good by beleiveing in god and that good acts have nothing to do with getting into heaven. They beleive that the ONLY way to get into heaven is to have faith in Jesus... so if you don't think you're saved, you aren't, and no matter how good you are, if you don't beleive in god you will not have salvation.

Of course, this is the fundementalist mindset... I know baptists who are wonderful and don't claim to know EXACTLY what's going to happen when a person dies... um, yeah, maybe that answers your question, Succubus?

[Disfunction]

The way I see it, if I'm going to be going to hell anyway (assuming my beliefs are wrong), I might as well have as much fun going there as I possibly can.

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Originally Posted by Disfunction

The way I see it, if I'm going to be going to hell anyway (assuming my beliefs are wrong), I might as well have as much fun going there as I possibly can.

Well said..

Now let's go earn as many Hell Points as we can..

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10...01_fumato5.gif

[Disfunction]

Originally Posted by Reject_Bunnies

Take for example:"A Million Little Pieces",this book isn't banned but after all the controversy from the 'Oprah' show;I'm sure it's sales have skyrocketed. (No publicity is bad publicity)

What, you mean after Oprah already gave it tons of good publicity?

[Reject_Bunnies]

Originally Posted by Disfunction

What, you mean after Oprah already gave it tons of good publicity?

Even if the facts presented in the book were invented,people are still buying this book because Oprah likes it.{There should be laws against having that much control over peoples' minds}.

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Originally Posted by Reject_Bunnies

Even if the facts presented in the book were invented,people are still buying this book because Oprah likes it.{There should be laws against having that much control over peoples' minds}.

It's not a matter of having control over people's minds..

It's a matter of most of the books she features, are amazing novels.

I'm not a Oprah watcher by any means, but I have read many of the books on her list and have never been disapointed. Specifically for books written about women's issue, and seldom discussed topics like Genital Mutilation or Incest. She isn't afraid to feature writers who explore these topics, that many people consider to be taboo.

She also was extremely disapointed that a book she featured, was filled with lies. She had him back on her show to publicly admit his falsehoods and to offer his apology to her and her readers for his lies. She has no way to check every fact offered by an author she features, it could have happened to anyone.

As far as the woman herself goes, she is one of the most prolific Philanthropists on the planet. She donated 45 Million Dollars to a University in Chicago, which one of my close friends attended at the time. The University was about to close its doors, for lack of Federal Funding and she stepped in and wrote a check. Just like that.

In addition, just to hit some of the highlights;

"Oprah's commitment to children also led her to initiate the National Child Protection Act in 1991, when she testified before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee to establish a national database of convicted child abusers. On December 20, 1993, President Clinton signed the national "Oprah Bill" into law"

"In December 2002, The Oprah Winfrey Foundation expanded its global humanitarian efforts with her ChristmasKindness South Africa 2002 initiative that included visits to orphanages and rural schools in South Africa where 50,000 children received gifts of food, clothing, athletic shoes, school supplies, books and toys. Sixty-three rural schools received libraries and teacher education. On December 6, 2002, Oprah announced a partnership with South Africa's Ministry of Education to build the "Oprah Winfrey Leadership Academy for Girls—South Africa," which is scheduled to open in 2007.

"She also has developed schools to educate thousands of underserved children internationally and created "The Oprah Winfrey Scholars Program," which gives scholarships to students determined to use their education to give back to their communities in the United States and abroad."

Source

She gave over a Million dollars to victims of Hurricane Katrina, and personally went down to my Hometown and visited the Astrodome where thousands of the victims were relocated after evacuations FINALLY began. She worked tirelessly for hours and hours handing out supplies to the victims, and praying with many of the families who were missing their loved ones. She didn't HAVE to do that. She chose to because she has a kind and caring heart.



She is one of the few 'Rich People' on the face of the planet, that gives back substantially to those who are less fortunate, worldwide.

For that fact alone, she has my Utmost Respect.

[succubus,queenofvampires]

Thanks a lot, Jane13! Your post gave me a really clear idea about Baptists.

[succubus,queenofvampires]

Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars

She is one of the few 'Rich People' on the face of the planet, that gives back substantially to those who are less fortunate, worldwide.

For that fact alone, she has my Utmost Respect.

Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars

Specifically for books written about women's issue, and seldom discussed topics like Genital Mutilation or Incest. She isn't afraid to feature writers who explore these topics, that many people consider to be taboo.

I truly respect Oprah too because she keepson working to make the world a better place for the less fortunate, and she is always trying to help others.

I think that she should be a role model to every woman around the world.
What I really like about her too is that she really cares about women's rights and does everything she can in order to show the injustice and oppression that women are facing in various places around the world, unlike other famous people who portray women as merely sex tools to please men...

[Sobeh]

The current Bible is comprised of the Tanakh (you're likely to think of it as the Old Testament) and then a collection of texts that make up the New Testament.

During and shortly after the life and death of Jesus of Nazareth, teachings were likely conveyed orally. Writings began to appear as early as 50 AD, so roughly 20 years after Jesus' death. There were numerous people all under the impression that they understood what Jesus was all about, and they all produced writings to their purposes. Marcionites, Gnostics, Jewish-Christian authors like the apostles James and Peter, the proto-Orthodox group of writers such as Paul... anyway, a shit ton of writing.

After Emperor Constantine decided to allow the burgeoning Christian religion to exist legally within the crumbling Roman Empire, he convened a Council at Nicea to delineate what the religion was, and what its tenets would officially be. This council was widely attended and debates were held, and the result was (a) the Nicene Creed, and (b) a collection of texts which were believed to be Revealed, which is to say, beyond the limitations of human inspiration.

The Catholic Church doesn't 'hide' any texts, or try to keep information from people - frankly, in its own view, it has as full a picture of God and Life as there can be, and at the same time uphold that salvation can come from non-Catholic sources (it's in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the result of the Vatican II council).

Protestant varieties of Christianity critique certain books in Catholic Bibles based on the political nature of the Nicean Council, and so dispense with certain of them, like James. These disputed texts are known as the Apocrypha (and there are Apocryphal texts which chronologically belong in both the New Testament part as well as the Tanakh).

Churches and denominations also disagree on which translations are authentic; whether the Tanakh is best translated from the original Hebrew or the Septuagint, and whether the King James version is divinely inspired or not, amongst other disagreements.

With respect to magic, the main issue taken by the Catholic Church with it is that, according to them, it is an example of the belief that human beings can achieve their ends without God, which is something they cannot abide. It has nothing to do with magic per se, only with the idea that magic makes God an unnecessary facet of existence.

---

The larger issue is that religion as promulgated in 'official' sources is almost never the religion as practiced on the ground, so critiquing *people* based on the official pronouncements of their religious institutions is in bad faith. How many American Catholics use birth control? How many Christians think Friday the 13th is 'bad luck'? These aren't supposed to be part of Christian life, yet are. So 'religion' is never something you can use to generalize about people. If a person uses those religious pronouncements to guide their life, you can critique them, but one ought not simply say all X are Y and expect to be taken seriously.

[Ben Lahnger]

Much evil has been done throughout history in the name of religion, so I'm not real big on this topic. And too many people have taken this wide ranging scattering of religious texts and interpreted them in ways that are judgemental or hurtful to other people.

I was raised Catholic, and most of the people I knew who were associated with the church asserted that if you weren't catholic, there was no way you could go anywhere but purgatory or hell. The rules about purgatory were a little vague. An example; if you were a little baby and died before you could be baptised and were not old enough to understand religion, then due to original sin you would go to pergatory. Or if you were some kind of native on some obscure island and had never had Christianity introduced to you.

Thankfully, while my Mom was a practicing Catholic, she did not believe that and told me so early on.

Originally Posted by Xnguela

Wouldn't it be nice to have something to believe in, though?

Not necessarily. In World War II there was a tribe of people on a south pacific island who came to be known as the cargo cult. Allied planes flew over their island and mistakenly dropped food and supplies. The planes flew over on such a regular basis that the tribe began to worship the great silver bird that brought them food. Hence the name "cargo cult."

These people were all too willing to worship the thing that dropped the food, much like people have worshiped the sun and other phenomena in the past. My opinion is that there is a part of the human psyche that yearns for a higher power to believe in; that the idea of a purely random, chaotic existence is too scary for the mind to accept easily.

I embrace the chaos, and understand that the only true source for order in our random world starts with me. Which is why the only religion I believe in is the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[OnixxFilth]

This is a toughie. I think that Christianity is not too controlling if you find the right denomination/sect for you. Some are stricter than others.

[succubus,queenofvampires]

Welcome back, Onix! You've been away for a while...

[tenet_2012]

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian




10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."


3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

[Ruwisk]

i had forgotten who said this " If there was no religion, it should be created"

[Circle V]

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."

--Voltaire

[Catch]

You know, it's not just Christians. A lot of religons just make up their own laws about how things should be done.

It's like this "body is your temple" thing. You're body isn't God's Temple. God's Temple is in Pallastine. In the bible, if you want to live longer, eat certain foods. Does everyone want to live longer though? Maybe some people want to eat well and die young.

Mormons take the cake on diets. There is a whole additional book on what foods not to eat. It's madness.

So I can see why so many people are pent up and turn hostile. Maybe it was just that one time and it gets easier the more often it's done in privacy. However, sure you don't drink coffee, but end up molesting your daughter because your wife is a fat cow that thinks sex is still wrong after marriage and the priest tells you that "yes" sex is a sin, why don't you just read a book.

So there it is. Why don't people just think about being nice to other people and themself too?

I say everyone go get a beer and favorite bar snack, then flirt with anyone willing to talk to you, take it home to the spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend, and have great sex with you spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend. However, you still have to think of your spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend while doing them all night. (Keeping thoughts pure and all.)

[Disfunction]

Originally Posted by Logan Weller

most college level world history books are credible in my opinion. joshua ben joseph was real, but you can have your doubts.

pontius pilate had him crucified not for his religious affairs (as most roman heads at the time cared not about the jews religion), but because he was creating a political disturbance. that's what got him killed. he died in the same manner as pirates and thieves.

Never suggested no one fitting the historical time period as well as being crucified. Knowledge of who that man truly was is virtually non-existent aside from for the people who take the bible literally as though it is a history book.

[Disfunction]

Originally Posted by Circle V

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."

--Voltaire

Yeah, I believe that that concept was appropriate to the time/era. I do not believe that religion necessarily forms any corner stone of society. However, I do support people in having religious beliefs, just as I support people in eating meat, or doing whatever it is that makes their lives better. I can live without a concept of God/god/Goddess/goddess/Allah/etc. and be perfectly content without any of it. Just as I respect other people having the right to believe what they will, I hope they practise the same values with me.