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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 04-08-2006, 08:00 AM   #1
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Big Brother At Work?

Whistle-Blower Outs NSA Spy Room

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,70619-0.html

AT&T provided National Security Agency eavesdroppers with full access to its customers' phone calls, and shunted its customers' internet traffic to data-mining equipment installed in a secret room in its San Francisco switching center, according to a former AT&T worker cooperating in the Electronic Frontier Foundation's lawsuit against the company.

Mark Klein, a retired AT&T communications technician, submitted an affidavit in support of the EFF's lawsuit this week. That class action lawsuit, filed in federal court in San Francisco last January, alleges that AT&T violated federal and state laws by surreptitiously allowing the government to monitor phone and internet communications of AT&T customers without warrants.


*snip*

Anyone else bothered by this? First bush claims that the warrantless wiretapping was just for out of country calls, then later it comes out it was all calls by AT&T, plus all internet communications.

Anyone else feel your rights have been violated?
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Old 04-08-2006, 08:34 AM   #2
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The NSA already listens in on telephone conversations if you say certain 'catch phrases'. However, listening to your phone constantly and seeing what you are doing online is very unsettling. They are going to use this to try to prosecute people who are against the administration. I guarantee it.

I actually bought a Bush sucking the blood out of Lady Liberty tshirt yesterday after hearing about this.
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Old 04-14-2006, 04:04 AM   #3
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An update from Wired...

http://www.wired.com/news/technology...?tw=wn_index_4

Basically, AT&T is now suing the EFF trying to get back the documents that show they illegally tapped the phones as it lays out how to illegally tap into any of AT&T networks quite easily. They are worried if those documents get entered into evidence, that people around the US will tap into AT&T hubs using the information on how to splice right in without anyone noticing.

Funny.
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Old 04-14-2006, 02:01 PM   #4
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This article I think fits in well here...

U.S. Buys Back Stolen Data by Afghan Base

http://news.**********/s/ap/afghan_us...kxBHNlYwN0bQ--

BAGRAM, Afghanistan - American investigators armed with a "box full" of cash have paid thousands of dollars to buy back stolen computer drives — many of which contain sensitive military data, shopkeepers outside the main U.S. military base in Afghanistan said Friday.

But dozens are still on sale, including memory sticks with information ranging from U.S. troop resumes to photographs of Air Force One during President Bush's visit last month.

The surfacing of the stolen computer devices has sparked an urgent probe to discover how security could have been breached at the heavily guarded Bagram base, which coordinates the fight against Taliban and al-Qaida militants and includes one of the military's main detention facilities for suspected terrorists.

...Included on some memory drives seen by AP earlier this week were the Social Security numbers of hundreds of soldiers, including four generals, and lists of troops who completed nuclear, chemical and biological warfare training.

The Los Angeles Times also reported that some drives had classified military secrets, including maps, charts and intelligence reports that appeared to detail how Taliban and al-Qaida leaders have been using southwestern Pakistan as a planning and training base for attacks in Afghanistan.

The documents, which seemed to be based on conversations with Afghan informants and official briefings, outlined how the U.S. military came to focus its search for militants on both sides of the Afghan-Pakistani border, according to the newspaper.


*snip*

As I said before, only the US does what it does to its citizens. In other countries we don't have social security numbers or really good records for any major events. And by no means do most countries have any computerised records.

So in the end, the US is liable to suffer because of their Big Prother database. It means all the information that it's enemies need is available, and alot easier to obtain.
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Old 04-14-2006, 11:20 PM   #5
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The US bothers me when it records my data. With that said, I don't really have anything to record. Being an immigrant of Canada, most of my records are still either in my possession, or with the Canadians. Except for a few school transcripts, and some little records here and there for immigration, I really have nothing, except my SS number, and my citizenship work.

The part that I find ironic is, it's so preventable. For instance, AT&T tapped the phones. Don't use phones then. Use stuff like Skype. They tap your computer? Encrypt it. I mean, it's not that hard to set up a proxy, an SSH server, or use some form of strong encryption. People are naive enough to think that just walking around will keep them secure. They are making themselves a problem when they don't protect themselves.

What I find even more ironic, is that when people find out they are being tapped, they get angry, and demand action. I think Americans [Note: I am stereotyping. So sue me.], have grown up too much on the "Love Thy Neighbor" attitude, and really need a sense of paranoia struck in them.

And then what's even more unnerving, is how they seek to blame the state, and then don't do anything. For the sake of all that's sane, if you don't want your information looked at, make it so it's invisible. It's not that hard to learn how to keep a few things safe, like your PIN, your Credit Card numbers, or anything else. Even just getting a decent shredder will improve your odds a huge number.
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Old 04-15-2006, 06:01 AM   #6
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That is true. It's much like the gun ownership argument. Those who buy guns legally have all their paperwork sent to the federal government, while if you buy a gun secondhand or at a gun show, you never have to sign any documents. Therefore, only the average joe is swept up in the governments big brother tactics.

People who want to keep out of the net, will, and people who want to keep out of the net are the people the government are SUPPOSED to be going after, not the average joe.

But thats what bothers me personally. I mean, I'M not worried about myself particularly, but 90% of the country that isn't smart enough to have anti-virus software on their PC also can't figure out SSH, PGP, or any basic security systems. Therefore, those who want to break the law and subvert the all seeing eyes of big brother do so with impunity, while the average american suffers for being ignorant.

It's once again an attack on the common man. Thats what irks me. The laws are designed, along with the enforcers of said law, to go after the little man. These laws and techniques have no bearing on any real terrorist activity or the 'war on terror'. These laws and systems merely allow the government to get inside the minds of the masses, to allow them to see what they want, possibly manipulate information, much like the whole J. Edgar Hoover FBI files on celebs and other politicians and Nixon and his tapes and Watergate - they get information thats out there and sitting - not what they claim to use it for.

Bin Laden isn't making calls to people in the states, and he doesn't send out emails. But most americans do.

Much like the 'patriot act', which when was under congressional review they pointed out was used like 1,500 times in criminal prosecution cases, but only 12 times for terrorism cases - it shows the new 'powers' and all this 'surveillence', is NOT to watch those who want to harm the US, but to allow the government to crack down on its own people.

They used the patiot act to arrest Gotti Jr. for running an illegal bookmaking business. Thats right, betting on american football was such a crime they had to bypass common laws and use terrorism tools to fight those who would place bets on american football, baseball, and other sports.

Then they say they need to tap everyones phone to stop terrrorists, while like you mention, terrorists, and most computer savvy individuals, can easily circumvent all their efforts. Whos left in the drag net? The average american who will get stuck for whatever it is the government thinks is 'wrong'.

Then they are placed into the legal system, their right to vote is taken away so they can't fight back, their finaces are drained by the state, and they are added to the growing prison society, the largest in the world already, in america.

The whole time the rich and wealth sit back and don't have to worry, as if you have the money in america, you can buy your way out of any crime. I could list such trials as OJ, Jacko, etc. but the bottom line is its yet another tool to help keep the poor down and take away their ability to create change in the upper echelon of society.

The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and those who run america, the corporations and their boards continue to run things unabated.

Land of the ow3nd, home of the enslaved.

</rant>
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Old 04-15-2006, 02:47 PM   #7
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I hate the fact that if I type a word or dare to speake it the goverment will start a file on me. That sucks. Freedom is't free anymore!
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Old 04-15-2006, 03:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambodian Breakfast
I hate the fact that if I type a word or dare to speake it the goverment will start a file on me. That sucks. Freedom is't free anymore!
Freedom isn't free.
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Old 04-15-2006, 03:39 PM   #9
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I thought that by being Americans that we inherited certain freedoms that could never be taken away. Now that they are stripped from us -leaving us naked in the rain - what are we going to do? Wait. Watch. Hope that someday we will get somebody in office that has a clue. It is a sad day. I just wait to see the uprising that will never come.
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:09 PM   #10
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I agree. I want to see someone finally take a step up, but I know we are going to have to wait.

The thing is, being an American doesn't mean jack shit. So, you were born in a superpower? You have no more rights then someone born in Somalia. Why? Since you are human, your rights can be taken away at the snap of a finger. You can fight back to take your rights, but they aren't set in stone. They are simply set on paper, and paper can be burnt.
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Old 04-15-2006, 05:21 PM   #11
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Paper can be burt but ideals can't. I believe in the rebublic that we live in and I know with the right people to manage it, it will prevail. Someday hopefull in the near future we will have a new leadership. To lead us the right way. Our country has be so mislead. We are nowhere near the United States that we once where. Our ideals have became so murky that we let shit slid. I don't. If I found some greasy c.i.a. guy in my house shearching my stuff. I would kick his ass (as long as he was a little guy). I can't belive that people have let things like the Patriot Act go on for so long, without public out cry. O'well what are we going to do.
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Old 04-15-2006, 05:44 PM   #12
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Ideals can be destroyed. They can be burned alive, because people can be burned alive. Destroy or control the people, and you can destroy or control the ideal. People only believe what the media tells them.

New Leadership won't do much, unless it is such a paradigm shift that the entire constitution is reworked. While the United States has several hundred good years of dominancy left in it, it doesn't have the morale longevity to keep to it's original goals. The fact is, we haven't been mislead. The US is still on the straight and narrow path that it was set upon in 1776. The problem is, that straight and narrow path will degrade over time.

If some greasy CIA guy was in your house, searching it, you wouldn't know. That's the entire purpose of the government. To act seamlessly. "Big Brother", isn't watching you, he's dancing, parading, keeping your attention.
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Old 04-16-2006, 01:48 AM   #13
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An ideal can never be destroyed. I Live and work in one of the most controling jobs in the world. They sure as shit can tell me how to live what to say and what to think, but fuck. You can kill me, but you can't kill my dreams.

The Consstitution dosn't need reworked. It needs all the bullshit amendments taken out. It has gotton so fucked up over the years that nobody can see the real thing anymore.
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Old 04-16-2006, 01:03 PM   #14
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In the immortal words of Bobby Sands, you can kill a man, but you can't kill what he stands for.

Also, another big brother article here I found today...

NYPD Deploys First of 500 Security Cameras

http://news.**********/s/ap/20060416/...kxBHNlYwN0bQ--

This is nothing new - many cities have already done this. Virginia Beach, Tampa, and a few others have every inch covered by cameras, manned by people watching them 24/7. This is not just in the states, most all of the UK has this has well now in every major city.

The UK put them in in the late 80's to 'fight terrorism', and since installed, you know how many terrorists these systems have caught?

Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Of course they catch people drunk in public, public urination, and other such 'crimes'. And at a huge cost of millions to install and years fees for the operators to watch them, they basically are a waste.

Unless your going to try and stop drunk in public and other such petty crimes.

Even though uneffective, they are still yet another step in the big brother system. Tapping all phones, tapping all internet connections, and putting cameras everywhere. Makes you think they really want to know what the citizens are up to doesn't it?
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Old 04-16-2006, 01:07 PM   #15
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It is all a control factor. They are slowley easing the public's minds into the fact that one day the goverment will have total control. Have you seen the movie Equilibrium. It will happen one day.
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Old 04-16-2006, 02:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambodian Breakfast
An ideal can never be destroyed. I Live and work in one of the most controling jobs in the world. They sure as shit can tell me how to live what to say and what to think, but fuck. You can kill me, but you can't kill my dreams.

The Consstitution dosn't need reworked. It needs all the bullshit amendments taken out. It has gotton so fucked up over the years that nobody can see the real thing anymore.
You see, here's the problem:
You die = Your dreams die.

The amendments are actually pretty good. For instance, would you like your First Amendment rights taken out? How about Amendment 13? What about Amendment 19? Amendment 26? Would you like to see the second gone too? Amendments are good things, because they allow change. Remove the amendments, and you send us back two hundred years.
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Old 04-16-2006, 02:16 PM   #17
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You have already lost those ammendments. Wiretapping, the 'sneak-n-peak' searches allowed by the patriot act, those who have been held for years without trial, almost every ammendment has been violated and no one has said anything.
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