Rant Thread

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

It is better to live in America than to live in Africa.
Therefore, it is good that black people can live in Africa, when it is likely they would otherwise be living in Africa.

Jillian's point is that living in most areas of Africa is generally 'worse' than living in America due to the influence of American and European imperialism. Had it not been for other nations ransacking the continent's population for slaves and perpetrating similarly deleterious campaigns against its people, living in Africa would be more pleasant today.

To say what you're saying is to declare "Well, if your ancestors hadn't been slaves, you wouldn't be able to live in the great nation we've built on the foundation of your ancestors' forced labor! You'd have to live in the pale shadow of a civilization that was left in the wake of your homeland's invasion at our hands!"

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Jillian's point is that living in most areas of Africa is generally 'worse' than living in America due to the influence of American and European imperialism. Had it not been for other nations ransacking the continent's population for slaves and perpetrating similarly deleterious campaigns against its people, living in Africa would be more pleasant today.

To say what you're saying is to declare "Well, if your ancestors hadn't been slaves, you wouldn't be able to live in the great nation we've built on the foundation of your ancestors' forced labor! You'd have to live in the pale shadow of a civilization that was left in the wake of your homeland's invasion at our hands!"

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
How many times do I have to say that I'm not saying it was worth slavery, or that slavery was a good idea because it's caused a few good things now?

I'm saying that slavery was bad, but living in America is good, and at least some people who wouldn't have otherwise gotten to live in America can now live in America.

[JCC]

I think the most important issue here is: how does the teacher know that [whoever originally posted the scandalous story] was from a family that came to America during the time of the slave trade? He did not know! He makes assumptions based upon her skin colour! I say that we castrate him!

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

I'm saying that slavery was bad, but living in America is good, and at least some people who wouldn't have otherwise gotten to live in America can now live in America.

Which is irrelevant as the 'good' of this situation is only a relative good caused by the bad of it.
Saying this is good is similar to saying after a war "at least we stopped"

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
How many times do I have to say that I'm not saying it was worth slavery, or that slavery was a good idea because it's caused a few good things now?

I never said you said that. You are, however, saying that living in America is better than living in Africa. I replied that the comfort of living in America compared to living in Africa is largely due to the latter's victimization at the hands of imperialist powers' slave trades.

I'm saying that slavery was bad, but living in America is good, and at least some people who wouldn't have otherwise gotten to live in America can now live in America.

But if it hadn't been for slavery, America wouldn't be dramatically preferable to most areas of Africa. As Jillian said, African civilization was doing just fine on the world stage before it was made to suffer so that other nations might prosper.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by JCC

I think the most important issue here is: how does the teacher know that [whoever originally posted the scandalous story] was from a family that came to America during the time of the slave trade?

It's simple. Her great-great-grandmother belonged to his family.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

I think the most important issue here is: how does the teacher know that [whoever originally posted the scandalous story] was from a family that came to America during the time of the slave trade? He did not know! He makes assumptions based upon her skin colour! I say that we castrate him!

I agree with this.
That's what I say "black people" not "African American people." Someone can be black and not be from America or Africa.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Which is irrelevant as the 'good' of this situation is only a relative good caused by the bad of it.
Saying this is good is similar to saying after a war "at least we stopped"

That's been my point the whole time.
Relative good is still good.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

But if it hadn't been for slavery, America wouldn't be dramatically preferable to most areas of Africa. As Jillian said, African civilization was doing just fine on the world stage before it was made to suffer so that other nations might prosper.

Definitely not true.
There would most likely still be rampant starvation and disease.

[Mir]

I never thought I'd live to see the day where I agreed with anything Gothicus said.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Definitely not true.
There would most likely still be rampant starvation and disease.

How do you figure? The medical establishment of the United States couldn't function in an African nation? The food economy would break down in an African nation?
Before the Age of Imperialism, many African principalities were on par with other developed nations in respect to these problems. Only after colonialism has Africa fallen horribly behind. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

Originally Posted by Mir

I never thought I'd live to see the day where I agreed with anything Gothicus said.

And I never thought I'd see the day when Mir was right.

[Mir]

Haha. You got me.

Fortunately, for me, being right or wrong never figured highly on my to-do list.

[Lolly PopMuzik]

I like how I'm the only other black member weighing in on the argument. :P

Really though, as another black member (dammit, where's Spoon when you need him to back you up?), I understand the arguing points of all three members but GM and Jillian nailed it with the exception of everybody forgetting about the Africans having a hand in the slave trade.

From my perspective, living in America as a black person has its definite ups and down due to us taking our race seriously both in regards to pride and making it a focal point of our identity. And those ups and downs are all the more apparent when we have the reset button being pushed on us by us every 5 seconds.

Yes, Ophelia, it's great we can have the option of living in America and make a lot of history here too but with the more unfortunate drawbacks, we really have to fight and push ourselves to keep them at bay.

Where the hell is Mitsy anyway? The least she could do is weigh in too or back me up.

[Alarica]

Fucking kids school has pissed me right off, and I'm shattered and brain numb from putting letters and case notes together. I want the head and her cronies exposed, so parents can see what a corrupt establishment it is. They lie and weasle their way out of every fucking complaint with collaborating stories and backing each other up.

[Bete Noire]

I'm a state of hypertension at the moment. Both grandmothers died within 3 days. So been out of the country for one funeral and travelling up to the midlands for the other. Seen more family members with that empty look in their face than I ever cared to. All this in the weeks leading up to and during my first A level exams. Fallen behind with Art and Music Tech. Might need to re-take my archaeology exam.
So I've been wandering around for the last few days trying to pick all my college stuff up, and get back to some sort of normality.
It's making things strained with my girlfriend, which really gets to me, and it's obviously spilling over more obviously, cause people keep asking me if I'm ok, and then when I say I'm fine they tell me I don't look it.

[Alarica]

I'm so fucking bored!! My partners gone out for a night out with his mates (well, a night in getting wankered at 1 of thems house). I cant stand any of them, and god knows I've tried. Uhh I'm just tired and stressed. Must organise a night out with my friends.

[Fae-wolf]

stupid writer's block

[tekajo]

i kept hearing a cat's meow near my window. We aren't talking cute little kitten let's play meow. This was from a large male cat i'm about to fuck you up meow. So i figure i'll go out there and chase those bastards away from my house so i don't have to hear that bullshit all night.

Step onto the porch (haven't had a porchlight in months) and i step on something soft and squishy as i begin to descend the stairs. i didn't have time to finish the step because i knew that wasn't right so i jumped back and went directly into the house to get a flashlight.

It was a dead young cat. Not quite a kitten but definitely not an adult cat.

(there was alot more to this rant, but i'll sumarize it)

Neighborhood is being overrun by feral cats left behind by my dumbass Cheese Head former neighbor and now all those cats do is fuck, fight, and kill each other. As well as tear into garbage when given the chance.

i'm going to have to start cleansing.

[Duane]

I hurt my back trying to do the spasm, heh.

[jack_the_knife]

I split my chin open and it had to be sewn shut.

[Solumina]

hm...my building is a bit shaky at the moment, it happens sometimes as we are somewhat close to an airport but I didn't hear a plane, how odd

edit: oh good it seems to have stopped, there must have been a plane going over that I didn't notice

[a morbid curiosity]

*has totally failed Maths preliminary exam*

[HumanePain]

Originally Posted by jack_the_knife

I split my chin open and it had to be sewn shut.

That happened to me when I was 16. I still have the scar under my beard.

[Alarica]

I'm tired, miserable, and cant be bothered with people. And now I have read through all my paperwork, i have to fucking re-write it all, so it doesnt sound hostile. I'm no good at playing out the weak one, yet its the only way I'll stand a chance, and I have always said I'd do anything for my kids. That said, my 8yr olds doing ww2 at school, and reading the diary of Anne Frank at home. I didnt cover this until secondary school!

[jack_the_knife]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

That happened to me when I was 16. I still have the scar under my beard.

Sucks doesn't it?