8 Year-Old Charged with Murder

[Agent17]

ST. JOHNS, Ariz. (AP) — It's a crime that police officers in a small eastern Arizona community can hardly fathom yet have to deal with: an 8-year-old charged in the fatal shootings of his father and another man. "Who would think an 8-year-old kid could kill two adults?" St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said Friday. The killings on Wednesday sent shock waves through St. Johns, a community of about 4,000 people. The boy had no disciplinary record at school, and there was no indication he had any problems at home, prosecutors said. "It was such a tragedy," said the boy's defense attorney, Benjamin Brewer. "You have two people dead; you have an 8-year-old in jail. It tugs at the heart strings. It's a shocker, no doubt about it." On Friday, a judge determined there was probable cause to show that the boy fatally shot his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos, with a .22-caliber rifle. The boy faces two counts of premeditated murder. Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone 8 or older. Melnick said the boy didn't act on the "spur of the moment," though he didn't elaborate on what the motive might have been. Melnick said officers arrived at Romero's home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room. Romans had been renting a room at the Romero house, prosecutors said. Both men were employees of a construction company working at a Salt River Project power plant near St. Johns, which is about 170 miles northeast of Phoenix. The boy went to a neighbor's house and said he "believed that his father was dead," said Apache County attorney Brad Carlyon. Melnick said police obtained a confession from the boy, but Brewer said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights. "They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid." A judge ordered a psychological evaluation of the boy, who was being held at the Apache County juvenile detention center. Prosecutors aren't sure where the case is headed, Carlyon said. "There's a ton of factors to be considered and weighed, including the juvenile's age," he said. "The counter balance against that, the acts that he apparently committed." Carlyon said the boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services. "He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before." City Manager Greg Martin said the community was "saddened" and "shocked." "Not something that happens very often and hopefully never happens again," he said. "It's been on their minds every since it happened." FBI statistics show instances of children younger than 11 committing homicides are very rare. According to recent FBI supplementary homicide reports, there were at least three such cases each year in 2003, 2004 and 2005; there were at least 15 in 2002. More recent statistics weren't available, nor were details of the cases. Earlier this year in Arizona, prosecutors in Cochise County filed first-degree murder charges against a 12-year-old boy accused of killing his mother. Defense attorney Mike Piccarreta, who is not involved in the latest case, said each case has to be considered on its own merits, but it would be hard for him to comprehend that an 8-year-old has the mental capacity to understand the act of murder and its implications. "If they actually prosecute the guy, it's a legal minefield," he said. "And, two, society has to make a decision as to whether they want to start using the criminal justice system to deal with 8-year-olds. That doesn't mean you don't have a troubled kid." Wednesday's homicides were the first in at least four years in the community, where most people know one another, Melnick said. No one else had been killed there since 20 years ago, he said. Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's biological mother visited St. Johns during the weekend from Mississippi, and returned to Arizona after the shootings, Carlyon said. Brewer said the boy "seems to be in good spirits. "He's scared," he said. "He's trying to be tough, but he's scared."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...qNNTAD94ASDMO0

WHat the hell was this kid thinking when he killed those two people?

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Agent17

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...qNNTAD94ASDMO0

What the hell was this kid thinking when he killed those two people?

Every eight-year-old wants to kill their parents.

[Toy Killer]

Granted, it was a long time ago, but I don't believe I wanted to kill them. With no history or signs of abuse, this is a very bizarre case indeed...

[Albert Mond]

I wanted to kill everybody when I was eight. It was cute.

[Saya]

Thats weird because just yesterday me and my friend were discussing how here if you're under twelve and you commit a crime, you can't be charged.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

I wanted to kill everybody when I was eight. It was cute.

Well then you have some issues.

[Toy Killer]

It varies from state to state and the degree of the crime. Typically, you can't be tried as an adult for those crimes if you are under 12, and occasionally, you can still be tried for criminal conspiricy, if someone older led you to commit the crime.

[Murasaki eyeliner]

what amazes with all the speculation no one seems to think: "hang on,an eight year old kid dosent just kill two guys for no reason."

an eight year old would have very few reasons to kill anyone ,let alone one of his parents,they just dont have the pride hangups,drunken rages or variouse mental hoogra* that adults would use as motives to kill someone.

someone (and not a scary looking cop i might add) should get over the shock horror aspect of the case and sit down with the kid and talk to him and try to get the little guy to tell them why he murdered his dad and some other guy,like they would with any other offender.

of course,this being the justice system i doubt they'll follow simple logic.


*for want of a better term

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Murasaki eyeliner

what amazes with all the speculation no one seems to think: "hang on,an eight year old kid dosent just kill two guys for no reason."

an eight year old would have very few reasons to kill anyone ,let alone one of his parents,they just dont have the pride hangups,drunken rages or variouse mental hoogra* that adults would use as motives to kill someone.

someone (and not a scary looking cop i might add) should get over the shock horror aspect of the case and sit down with the kid and talk to him and try to get the little guy to tell them why he murdered his dad and some other guy,like they would with any other offender.

of course,this being the justice system i doubt they'll follow simple logic.


*for want of a better term

Children feel helpless.

[Murasaki eyeliner]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

Children feel helpless.

Good point, personaly i think that his papa and the other guy might have been abusing him, and he took the law into his own hands because the two adults told him no-one would beleive him if he reported it.

if that is the case then frankly they got what they deserved.

[Toy Killer]

Bullshit. A number of kids feel powerless, but not helpless, and that is a strong sign of abuse.

maybe, if the kid had shown signs of sexual assault, it would be a completely different manner. the problem with R@peing a kid is that they tend to talk about it, to people they trust will do something about it. Most counties have 'touching private parts' discussion with kids at all ages.

Maybe, if the kid had shown signs of physical abuse, this would be a different story. But kids with violent households act far from the norm, including breaking other kids toys or belongings repeatedly, violent reactions to simple annoyances (Like pulling a kids hair across the playground to get them to play with him), and generally staying alone. Not to mention physical bruises and repeated trips to the hospitial.

Maybe, if the kid had shown signs of Emotional abuse, which again, would lead him to behave very differently from other kids. all full of tell-tale signs that teachers are trained and retrained to identify.

Most likely, although, maybe not difinatively, the child misunderstood some statements and made him feel he was doing the right thing, perhaps when his dad and his coworker came over, and got drunk they would say hurtful thing to his mom. I dunno, I don't know much more about his home dynamic other then he was not abused.

[Fae-wolf]

.......that...this is interesting.

[biohazard]

This is unbelievable. I cannot imagine an 8 year old murdering his father and some guy without having any scars, or any other criminal records or anything. Maybe he was just playing with the gun?

[Toy Killer]

Could be...

accidently shot his father, roomate/coworker freaks out at him and he shoots him too? Perchance?

[Tam Li Hua]

I want to know why they think the kid would do this, and why they believe it was premeditated. I also would love to know what the psych evaluation said about the kid's emotional and mental state.

But most of all, I want to know why the police were accusing the kid of murder early on. That seems strange, at best...

[Maggoty Anne]

I think it's ridiculous they're trying to charge him as an adult. No 8 year old could really understand what they were doing.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Maggoty Anne

I think it's ridiculous they're trying to charge him as an adult. No 8 year old could really understand what they were doing.

Poppycock! I could have when I was eight.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

The kid killed two men with a rifle. That means that he had to have fired at least two times. If it was accidental, why did he fire the second time? The only defense left is that he didn't know what he was doing, but that just doesn't make sense. An eight year old is quite capable of distinguishing between "dead" and "alive." The kid must have had some idea of what he was doing. Now the authorities just need to figure out why he did it.