Right to refuse medical treatment

[x-deviant-x]

Originally Posted by AngelikDemonik

If she wanted to refuse exploratory surgery--Yeah, I really couldn't blame her. Or if she had lung cancer which already spread to her lymph nodes and chemo and radiation would only give her a silver of a survival and she refused I couldn't blame her...But for someone at her age to say that "if it's not an antibiotic or pain pill, I don't want it"...is just plain stupid.

I'm not a 'her', thank you.

and its interesting you should make that point, considering something about explorative surgery was noted in his chart.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Your beliefs are amazingly stupid.

"They've spent well over a decade learning about the human body, and sometimes two more practicing it, but no, they can't be trusted to save my life".

You are an idiot.

[Drake Dun]

Sorry for jumping to conclusions. I'm used to hearing "personal beliefs" as code for "idiotic religious delusions." I'll dig around in the law for as soon as I feel up to it.

When I come back, I'll probably also express some reservations about your thinking on this, but at least it sounds like you are making a conscious decision based on a clear picture of reality. If you really have all the facts at your disposal and you still want to go that way, ultimately, it's up to you.

[jack_the_knife]

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

I will never voluntarily allow myself to become your hunk of flesh to experiment on, as though I'm an object instead of an individual.

Tell me, do you eat meat or animal products? If you do, then you're treating the animal as a hunk of flesh and an object.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Either way everyone gets treated like a hunk of flesh after we die.
You know, autopsies and preparing a corpse for burial and shit.
So you get treated like a hunk of flesh while unconscious, or while dead.
In both cases you won't experience being treated like a hunk of flesh, you can only know you were or will be.

[x-deviant-x]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

Your beliefs are amazingly stupid.

"They've spent well over a decade learning about the human body, and sometimes two more practicing it, but no, they can't be trusted to save my life".

You are an idiot.

Both my grandfathers and my sister's first born, all died in hospitals due to the wonderful care they were provided by the so-called professionals who were supposed to be keeping them alive. My dad's father died from a heart attack while he was in for observation. No one even knew he was dead for several hours, because no one bothered to check on him.

3 months later, my mom's dad drove himself to the hospital for what was supposed to be an out-patient procedure. He was having stints put in his arm for his kidney dialysis. It should have only taken a few hours, but he wound up spending the last 3 weeks of his life there. Heart failure from the anesthesia lead to an emergency bipass - something his heart doctor, who he'd been seeing for a good five years or more before hand, should have been able to detect, but either didn't, or didn't give a shit. From there everything snowballed. Ultimately he died because his organs were basically liquified from the stomach acid that leaked into his abdominal cavity due to a feeding tube they'd placed in him that tore loose. No one knew it tore loose, because they weren't checking. On top of that, the entire time he was in the hospital, no one bothered to change the dialysis fluid that was in his gut, that was supposed to be changed on a daily basis. He spent most of those 3 weeks with that shit still in him.

in October of '01 my sister went to the hospital instead of work because she thought she was going into labor. It was less than a week before her due date. There was no doctor on duty at the time (early saturday morning). The only one willing to talk to her sent her home saying she was just over-reacting. The real issue was that she had some form of toxemia, that for whatever reasons didn't allow her body to respond properly to labor. Her doctor was aware of this, but didn't bother to let her know, and made no significant notes on it in her medical records. The fucker that sent her home wasn't even authorized to do so. The following monday she went back, only to discover that she had been in labor all weekend, and her baby had strangled to death on her umbilical cord. And as if all of this wasn't enough, they forced her to continue with natural birth, lying in a bed for over 20 hours trying to deliver a baby that she knew was dead.

Technology and medical advancement is a wonderful thing. It doesn't mean those using it can be trusted. While these aren't the only reasons I don't like hospitals, they definitely don't help to restore any sort of trust in them.

People need to be more responsible for their bodies, and more aware of what is going on with them. This is why I said before that I'm angry with my boyfriend, and myself really, for allowing this to happen. We could have prevented it, had we been paying more attention.

I do feel like a bit of an ass though, as I was allowing too much of my own stress to affect my thoughts and put myself in a shitty frame of mind. I am bad about over thinking too much.

[JCC]

Why are you all getting so pissy about this?

[Alarica]

Hospitals cant cure everyone of everything. It's a shame you feel the way you do.

I lost both grandfathers to cancer, and someone else to something, yet I let that be the reason I would do whatever I could to be able to stay here with my kids. Except dentists. I hate them

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

Both my grandfathers and my sister's first born, all died in hospitals due to the wonderful care they were provided by the so-called professionals who were supposed to be keeping them alive. My dad's father died from a heart attack while he was in for observation. No one even knew he was dead for several hours, because no one bothered to check on him.

3 months later, my mom's dad drove himself to the hospital for what was supposed to be an out-patient procedure. He was having stints put in his arm for his kidney dialysis. It should have only taken a few hours, but he wound up spending the last 3 weeks of his life there. Heart failure from the anesthesia lead to an emergency bipass - something his heart doctor, who he'd been seeing for a good five years or more before hand, should have been able to detect, but either didn't, or didn't give a shit. From there everything snowballed. Ultimately he died because his organs were basically liquified from the stomach acid that leaked into his abdominal cavity due to a feeding tube they'd placed in him that tore loose. No one knew it tore loose, because they weren't checking. On top of that, the entire time he was in the hospital, no one bothered to change the dialysis fluid that was in his gut, that was supposed to be changed on a daily basis. He spent most of those 3 weeks with that shit still in him.

in October of '01 my sister went to the hospital instead of work because she thought she was going into labor. It was less than a week before her due date. There was no doctor on duty at the time (early saturday morning). The only one willing to talk to her sent her home saying she was just over-reacting. The real issue was that she had some form of toxemia, that for whatever reasons didn't allow her body to respond properly to labor. Her doctor was aware of this, but didn't bother to let her know, and made no significant notes on it in her medical records. The fucker that sent her home wasn't even authorized to do so. The following monday she went back, only to discover that she had been in labor all weekend, and her baby had strangled to death on her umbilical cord. And as if all of this wasn't enough, they forced her to continue with natural birth, lying in a bed for over 20 hours trying to deliver a baby that she knew was dead.

Technology and medical advancement is a wonderful thing. It doesn't mean those using it can be trusted. While these aren't the only reasons I don't like hospitals, they definitely don't help to restore any sort of trust in them.

People need to be more responsible for their bodies, and more aware of what is going on with them. This is why I said before that I'm angry with my boyfriend, and myself really, for allowing this to happen. We could have prevented it, had we been paying more attention.

I do feel like a bit of an ass though, as I was allowing too much of my own stress to affect my thoughts and put myself in a shitty frame of mind. I am bad about over thinking too much.

OK, now compare your sister's dead baby to the number of healthy babies born in the country and try to realize that it's more the fact you got shafted by bad luck, not because every single doctor in the world is disgustingly negligent.

[Albert Mond]

For most Doctors, their job isn't just a job; it's a passion.
Every swing has infinite hope and calculation put into it.

[Alarica]

Babies die for all sorts of reasons. It's a sad fact of life. I've been affected by it too btw, I'm not being heartless here. A mother lost her baby by passing on the cold sore virus when she kissed her. People contract cancer and no 2 people's bodies react the same to treatment. 1 will recover and live a long life, the other will die. It's bullshit to say they've had long enough to learn about the human body, to be able to save everyone. Nature works differently, we evolve, we become resistent to medications, and bugs like MRSA become resistent to treatment. I'm sorry, but if you are going to be an idiot and want to die, do people a favour and shoot yourself, but dont miss, or theres a risk some evil do gooder might try and save you from bleeding to death. We cant have that.

[jack_the_knife]

Originally Posted by Alarica

I'm sorry, but if you are going to be an idiot and want to die, do people a favour and shoot yourself, but dont miss, or theres a risk some evil do gooder might try and save you from bleeding to death. We cant have that.

I second this.

[CrimsonPythonidae]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

OK, now compare your sister's dead baby to the number of healthy babies born in the country and try to realize that it's more the fact you got shafted by bad luck, not because every single doctor in the world is disgustingly negligent.

Are you saying you could have prevented apendicitis?

Nice avatar Al, all class

oops, was quoting deviant there btw, not joker . .

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by CrimsonPythonidae

Nice avatar Al, all class

I'm a classy mother fucker.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

I've only ever had to refuse treatment once, when I was 19 and had dislocated my ankle. I dealt with the barrage of insults from my family and supposed friends, being called a "fucking idiot" and being told I was acting childish, etc, from everyone around me. The last time I was an actual patient was when I was 17, strapped to a board in an E.R. for 12 hours after a car accident. I wasn't able to get up and walk out then, or I would have.

If that ankle had been broken instead of dislocated, it could kill you. It seems strange that you claim to respect your body, but would let it wither away and fester because of a simple broken bone.

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

I will never voluntarily allow myself to become your hunk of flesh to experiment on, as though I'm an object instead of an individual.

There. This is the problem.
You've just proved you have little to no understanding of the way the medical community works. Nearly all surgeries performed are routine, and far from experimental. Those that are experimental are discussed thoroughly with patients and consented to. You seem to be picturing a mad scientist with a pair of scissors in your head, and that incorrect vision, while amusing, will probably cost you your life.

What's more, if doctors were going to just treat you like an object instead of giving you individualized care, why would they communicate with other doctors, your family, and you to get as much information as they could about you so as to give you the best care?

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

Both my grandfathers and my sister's first born, all died in hospitals due to the wonderful care they were provided by the so-called professionals who were supposed to be keeping them alive. My dad's father died from a heart attack while he was in for observation. No one even knew he was dead for several hours, because no one bothered to check on him.

I hate to be so callous, but this really is insane/stupid.
Newborns and the elderly are the weakest of all humans, and death even in the strongest of us is 100% guaranteed.

If you hate hospitals because they couldn't keep your grandfather alive indefinitely...then yeah...I guess you have a point, because no, they can't keep people alive forever.

I heard one time that a hair stylist did a bad job. You should probably boycott them, too.
Also restaurants, because sometimes you get bad food, when you're supposed to get good food.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Ophie, you're the tops.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

Ophie, you're the tops.

You're not so bad yourself, hot pants.

[Despanan]

Wow you two are really on the ball. I don't really even have to add anything here, except an extra helping of scorn for x-deviant-x

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

It's good to see someone who gathers all the facts, thinks them all over carefully, and makes the dumbest decision possible.

It reinforces my pleas for logic to be taught in schools.

[Serephurus]

Personally, I think that refusing medical care is idiotic. Especially if you have something like appendicitis, which will escalate to massive infections (i.e becoming septic) and dying a horrible death.

To each his own, I guess.

[x-deviant-x]

There are ways to treat an infected/inflamed appendix without surgery, if it's discovered in time. Some are self healing, as most appendicitices are caused by fecal blockage. Regular bowel movements and a diet high in fiber can go a long way. And if you pay attention to your body, keep yourself as fit and healthy as possible, and stick to a proper diet, you can prevent most illnesses.

The majority of people in this country are pathetic when it comes to taking care of themselves. They want to pay strangers to do it for them and are willing to pop pill after pill into their systems which are nothing but man-made poisons, most of which have a plethora of side-effects that are far more severe than the symptoms they're supposedly meant to treat. Perfect example - I have psoriasis, most likely inherited from my mother whose had it since she was pre-school age. While mine is much milder than hers, and really only affects my elbows and knees, it is still annoying. I saw a commercial just yesterday for a new prescription drug to treat psoriasis. Among the few dozen side-effects it can cause, one of them is tuberculosis. Great! I'll gladly trade my dry, itchy elbows and knees for a debilitating lung disease of which there is no cure for, just so the drug companies can cash in a bit more at my expense.

No thank you. They can keep their poisons.

My own treatment: the beach. Spend a couple hours in the ocean and within a day or two my elbows and knees are smooth as a baby's ass, and it doesn't come back for months. The last time I was at the beach was in late sept/early oct. and the shit still has not returned. It took a few trips before I realized what was happening, and when I asked my mom about it she told me it does the same for her, she just hasn't lived a reasonable distance from a beach in about 30 years.

A friend of mine in TN has severe psoriasis, pretty much from head to toe. When it gets too annoying for him to deal with anymore he takes a trip to some place in NC to a hot spring. He said the last time he went it didn't come back for over 4 years.

I'm not claiming its a cure, or even a significant treatment for everyone, as there are multiple types of psoriasis, each at varying levels of severity. As far as I'm aware, it isn't a life-threatening condition, which definitely means it's not worth pursuing a treatment for it that can result in death. Where is the fucking logic in that?

Any doctor that truly cares about their patients would help that patient explore ALL alternatives before surgery. Mention something like ocean water to a doctor that's trying to sell you a pill and you'll be laughed out of his office. They don't give a fuck about you, they want your money, and they're going to do whatever they can to keep you coming back. There's no money in the cure.

And now, coming back around to my boyfriend and his appendectomy. He now has an 8 inch incision across his abdomen and all of those muscles were cut. No, it did not rupture and there was no logical reason for the doctor to have used that archaic form of surgery that has basically debilitated him for the rest of his life. 3 weeks later it is still draining and he can barely walk. It's only been this week that he's been able to lie down in bed without crying from the pain, and he can't straighten his legs. His pain pills - 5mg of percocet - ran out last week. He made them stretch as far as they could go, as it was only meant to be a 7 day supply. When he asked his doctor for a stronger pain pill he was told that's the strongest they could give him. On his follow-up visit, one week after surgery, his fucktard of a doctor walked in and all he asked was "have you quit smoking yet?" When he said no, the doctor walked out of the room and said he wasn't going to speak to him again until he quit smoking. Didn't even look at him, much less his incision. About 20 minutes later he sent the nurse in to yank out his staples, which she didn't even bother using gloves or sterilizing the incision before-hand.

And fuck you for trying to justify my nieces death by saying babies die every day. Yeah, they do die every day from all sorts of disorders. Is neglect a disorder? SHE WAS SENT HOME, you fucking moron. That is not a natural cause. There was nothing physically wrong with the baby. She fucking strangled to death because some asshole in a hospital either wasn't competent enough, or just didn't want to do his job. $50K in fertility treatment over the course of about 10 years, and the result was a dead baby. Thankfully, that hospital has been barred from delivering anymore children, as there had been a dozen or so other women who went through the same thing within the previous year.

Since then my sister has had two more very healthy girls, and neither of them were planned. She spent 10 years going to doctor after doctor trying to get pregnant, being told repeatedly she'd never have kids naturally, and all it took was for and her husband to change their diet and exercise.

And since no one here has bothered to offer any legitimate advice but instead chose to insert their own derogatory opinions, every one of you can fuck off. This conversation is over.

[Alarica]

So you have a problem with 'pills and poisons' and yet think that the doctors are in the wrong because your fucktard of a boyfriend was too much of a useless prick to stop smoking. Yeah ok. Known fact. Smokers heal slower. I dont blame the doctor for walking out. If you have such a problem with hospitals and doctors, maybe you should have practiced what you preach and advised your boyfriend to stop smoking. I hope you get lung cancer from passive smoking, and die a slow painful death. People like you make me fucking sick.

As for your sisters baby, loads of babies die from all sorts of complications. A seemingly healthy pregnancy can end in a still birth because the placenta stops functioning. 1 of my daughters was close to death because she had the cord wrapped round her neck so tightly she was blue. A friends baby had a longer cord and somehow knotted it and the baby died. It happens. Deal with it. Atleast she has 2 healthy children now.

As for anyone offering you 'legitimate advice', whats the point? You are a fucking know it all. You think diet and exercise are the answers to everything and knowingly sit by as your boyfriend slowly kills himself, and then blame a doctor for not giving a shit that he still isnt healing. I'm glad he's suffering. It serves him right. I hate people like you. Think you have the right to slag off everything and everyone until they arent doing something for you. You're a cunt of the worst kind.

Fuck off and die in a dark corner of a sound proof room, so you dont inflict your double standards on anyone else.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

There are ways to treat an infected/inflamed appendix without surgery, if it's discovered in time. Some are self healing, as most appendicitices are caused by fecal blockage. Regular bowel movements and a diet high in fiber can go a long way. And if you pay attention to your body, keep yourself as fit and healthy as possible, and stick to a proper diet, you can prevent most illnesses.

The majority of people in this country are pathetic when it comes to taking care of themselves. They want to pay strangers to do it for them and are willing to pop pill after pill into their systems which are nothing but man-made poisons, most of which have a plethora of side-effects that are far more severe than the symptoms they're supposedly meant to treat. Perfect example - I have psoriasis, most likely inherited from my mother whose had it since she was pre-school age. While mine is much milder than hers, and really only affects my elbows and knees, it is still annoying. I saw a commercial just yesterday for a new prescription drug to treat psoriasis. Among the few dozen side-effects it can cause, one of them is tuberculosis. Great! I'll gladly trade my dry, itchy elbows and knees for a debilitating lung disease of which there is no cure for, just so the drug companies can cash in a bit more at my expense.

No thank you. They can keep their poisons.

My own treatment: the beach. Spend a couple hours in the ocean and within a day or two my elbows and knees are smooth as a baby's ass, and it doesn't come back for months. The last time I was at the beach was in late sept/early oct. and the shit still has not returned. It took a few trips before I realized what was happening, and when I asked my mom about it she told me it does the same for her, she just hasn't lived a reasonable distance from a beach in about 30 years.

A friend of mine in TN has severe psoriasis, pretty much from head to toe. When it gets too annoying for him to deal with anymore he takes a trip to some place in NC to a hot spring. He said the last time he went it didn't come back for over 4 years.

I'm not claiming its a cure, or even a significant treatment for everyone, as there are multiple types of psoriasis, each at varying levels of severity. As far as I'm aware, it isn't a life-threatening condition, which definitely means it's not worth pursuing a treatment for it that can result in death. Where is the fucking logic in that?

Any doctor that truly cares about their patients would help that patient explore ALL alternatives before surgery. Mention something like ocean water to a doctor that's trying to sell you a pill and you'll be laughed out of his office. They don't give a fuck about you, they want your money, and they're going to do whatever they can to keep you coming back. There's no money in the cure.

And now, coming back around to my boyfriend and his appendectomy. He now has an 8 inch incision across his abdomen and all of those muscles were cut. No, it did not rupture and there was no logical reason for the doctor to have used that archaic form of surgery that has basically debilitated him for the rest of his life. 3 weeks later it is still draining and he can barely walk. It's only been this week that he's been able to lie down in bed without crying from the pain, and he can't straighten his legs. His pain pills - 5mg of percocet - ran out last week. He made them stretch as far as they could go, as it was only meant to be a 7 day supply. When he asked his doctor for a stronger pain pill he was told that's the strongest they could give him. On his follow-up visit, one week after surgery, his fucktard of a doctor walked in and all he asked was "have you quit smoking yet?" When he said no, the doctor walked out of the room and said he wasn't going to speak to him again until he quit smoking. Didn't even look at him, much less his incision. About 20 minutes later he sent the nurse in to yank out his staples, which she didn't even bother using gloves or sterilizing the incision before-hand.

And fuck you for trying to justify my nieces death by saying babies die every day. Yeah, they do die every day from all sorts of disorders. Is neglect a disorder? SHE WAS SENT HOME, you fucking moron. That is not a natural cause. There was nothing physically wrong with the baby. She fucking strangled to death because some asshole in a hospital either wasn't competent enough, or just didn't want to do his job. $50K in fertility treatment over the course of about 10 years, and the result was a dead baby. Thankfully, that hospital has been barred from delivering anymore children, as there had been a dozen or so other women who went through the same thing within the previous year.

Since then my sister has had two more very healthy girls, and neither of them were planned. She spent 10 years going to doctor after doctor trying to get pregnant, being told repeatedly she'd never have kids naturally, and all it took was for and her husband to change their diet and exercise.

And since no one here has bothered to offer any legitimate advice but instead chose to insert their own derogatory opinions, every one of you can fuck off. This conversation is over.

I actually agree with a lot of this - a major motivation of the medical industry is, after all, profit, and many doctors WILL recommend expensive medication for pretty much any ailment you can name, without bothering to explore other alternatives.

That said, it's a whole different ballgame when you're talking about something like life-saving surgery after a car-crash. Although I appreciate that you have good reasons for refusing treatment to which there are alternatives, I can't see this as anything other than an irrational decision, and if I were asked for a decision as to whether to override the wishes of someone I knew in this situation, I would not hesitate to to do and suspect that many people in your life will feel the same. For that reason, if you're dead set on this, you should probably contact a lawyer and see about getting some papers drawn up, preventing your family and boyfriend from having you treated against your will.

Originally Posted by Alarica

So you have a problem with 'pills and poisons' and yet think that the doctors are in the wrong because your fucktard of a boyfriend was too much of a useless prick to stop smoking. Yeah ok. Known fact. Smokers heal slower. I dont blame the doctor for walking out. If you have such a problem with hospitals and doctors, maybe you should have practiced what you preach and advised your boyfriend to stop smoking. I hope you get lung cancer from passive smoking, and die a slow painful death. People like you make me fucking sick.

....

I'm glad he's suffering. It serves him right.

Why so fucking vicious all the time? Does someone on the internet really inspire so much bile that you wish them lung cancer? I fucking blame the doctor for walking out, because smoking is not illegal and he is obligated to treat someone who does it. Should he refuse to treat a car-crash victim who didn't look both ways before crossing the street, because they contributed to their own condition? If he really did walk out after finding out that, no, someone hasn't yet managed to quit a highly addictive habit, he was being a fucking prick. It's not like medical treatment in the United States is free and the guy's draining resources that could go to some kid with bone cancer.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

There are ways to treat an infected/inflamed appendix without surgery, if it's discovered in time. Some are self healing, as most appendicitices are caused by fecal blockage. Regular bowel movements and a diet high in fiber can go a long way. And if you pay attention to your body, keep yourself as fit and healthy as possible, and stick to a proper diet, you can prevent most illnesses.

The majority of people in this country are pathetic when it comes to taking care of themselves. They want to pay strangers to do it for them and are willing to pop pill after pill into their systems which are nothing but man-made poisons, most of which have a plethora of side-effects that are far more severe than the symptoms they're supposedly meant to treat. Perfect example - I have psoriasis, most likely inherited from my mother whose had it since she was pre-school age. While mine is much milder than hers, and really only affects my elbows and knees, it is still annoying. I saw a commercial just yesterday for a new prescription drug to treat psoriasis. Among the few dozen side-effects it can cause, one of them is tuberculosis. Great! I'll gladly trade my dry, itchy elbows and knees for a debilitating lung disease of which there is no cure for, just so the drug companies can cash in a bit more at my expense.

No thank you. They can keep their poisons.

My own treatment: the beach. Spend a couple hours in the ocean and within a day or two my elbows and knees are smooth as a baby's ass, and it doesn't come back for months. The last time I was at the beach was in late sept/early oct. and the shit still has not returned. It took a few trips before I realized what was happening, and when I asked my mom about it she told me it does the same for her, she just hasn't lived a reasonable distance from a beach in about 30 years.

A friend of mine in TN has severe psoriasis, pretty much from head to toe. When it gets too annoying for him to deal with anymore he takes a trip to some place in NC to a hot spring. He said the last time he went it didn't come back for over 4 years.

I'm not claiming its a cure, or even a significant treatment for everyone, as there are multiple types of psoriasis, each at varying levels of severity. As far as I'm aware, it isn't a life-threatening condition, which definitely means it's not worth pursuing a treatment for it that can result in death. Where is the fucking logic in that?

Any doctor that truly cares about their patients would help that patient explore ALL alternatives before surgery. Mention something like ocean water to a doctor that's trying to sell you a pill and you'll be laughed out of his office. They don't give a fuck about you, they want your money, and they're going to do whatever they can to keep you coming back. There's no money in the cure.

And now, coming back around to my boyfriend and his appendectomy. He now has an 8 inch incision across his abdomen and all of those muscles were cut. No, it did not rupture and there was no logical reason for the doctor to have used that archaic form of surgery that has basically debilitated him for the rest of his life. 3 weeks later it is still draining and he can barely walk. It's only been this week that he's been able to lie down in bed without crying from the pain, and he can't straighten his legs. His pain pills - 5mg of percocet - ran out last week. He made them stretch as far as they could go, as it was only meant to be a 7 day supply. When he asked his doctor for a stronger pain pill he was told that's the strongest they could give him. On his follow-up visit, one week after surgery, his fucktard of a doctor walked in and all he asked was "have you quit smoking yet?" When he said no, the doctor walked out of the room and said he wasn't going to speak to him again until he quit smoking. Didn't even look at him, much less his incision. About 20 minutes later he sent the nurse in to yank out his staples, which she didn't even bother using gloves or sterilizing the incision before-hand.

And fuck you for trying to justify my nieces death by saying babies die every day. Yeah, they do die every day from all sorts of disorders. Is neglect a disorder? SHE WAS SENT HOME, you fucking moron. That is not a natural cause. There was nothing physically wrong with the baby. She fucking strangled to death because some asshole in a hospital either wasn't competent enough, or just didn't want to do his job. $50K in fertility treatment over the course of about 10 years, and the result was a dead baby. Thankfully, that hospital has been barred from delivering anymore children, as there had been a dozen or so other women who went through the same thing within the previous year.

Since then my sister has had two more very healthy girls, and neither of them were planned. She spent 10 years going to doctor after doctor trying to get pregnant, being told repeatedly she'd never have kids naturally, and all it took was for and her husband to change their diet and exercise.

And since no one here has bothered to offer any legitimate advice but instead chose to insert their own derogatory opinions, every one of you can fuck off. This conversation is over.

You want to explore alternative medicine but also say no to pills?
You're dumber than I thought.
What do you think aspirin is?

And not fuck me for bringing up how babies die all the time. Fuck you for thinking that all doctors are failures based on one experience.
Are all gays disgusting because I knew one who'd pay a child to let him suck his cock?

And yes, there are ways to combat illness that aren't invasive. The ocean, regular exercise and a good diet are some of these ways. You're right.
There are illnesses, however, that these things can't cure or prevent. In those cases, it's not wrong, disgusting, or morally objectionable to get surgery.

One last thing--stop saying you just came here looking for advice, because you and everyone else knows that's bullshit.

[Alarica]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Why so fucking vicious all the time? Does someone on the internet really inspire so much bile that you wish them lung cancer? I fucking blame the doctor for walking out, because smoking is not illegal and he is obligated to treat someone who does it. Should he refuse to treat a car-crash victim who didn't look both ways before crossing the street, because they contributed to their own condition? If he really did walk out after finding out that, no, someone hasn't yet managed to quit a highly addictive habit, he was being a fucking prick. It's not like medical treatment in the United States is free and the guy's draining resources that could go to some kid with bone cancer.

My point was that he has slagged off mecicine and doctors from the start. Calling medicines poison and bitching about doctors like they are butchers. THEN he gets shitty because a doctor wasnt interested in helping someone who wouldnt help themself. His boyfriend. Who could have stopped smoking and given his body a better chance to heal. It's all very well doing the whole 'the ocean, diet and exercise are better' routine, but its bullshit to then get pissy with doctors when it suits. If he honestly believed his ideas were better than medical procedures and medicines, he wouldn't be breathing in someone elses smoke, he wouldnt be allowing his body to endure that. And he would have made every effort to help his beloved to stop smoking even long enough to get better. If medicines are so evil, then why does he have such a problem with a doctor not giving a shit? Fact is, medicine is the greatest evil to him, UNLESS it's a case of someone not getting treated. His boyfriend smoking and then moaning that he isnt healing after 3 weeks, is no different to a morbidly obese person shovelling cream cakes down their throat, then moaning because a doctor cant operate to staple their stomach because they refuse to stop fucking eating shite and lose enough weight to make the surgery safe.

And my comment about getting lung cancer was more a case of, he thinks medicines so bad but he's classically the sort of person to have these legal papers drawn up, then he'll get something like lung cancer, from passively smoking, and by the time he is in agony and expects medical help, it'll be everyone elses fault he isnt getting treatment, but not his. He'll likely get shitty with doctors going 'you have legal papers preventing us helping you. Theres nothing we can do' and he's got the attitude of someone who would then try to sue hospitals over it.