Atheism and sharing the bridge to the future

[Despanan]

Its fine to argue about this stuff as we do, I would argue, its just when we get "its all or nothing" attitude that there's a problem. But like I said, its the Christians who have to shape up.

I agree,

I'm just asking them to play by the rules their divine book very clearly sets down.

We've seen that statistically, Christians know far less about their own religion than atheists. I want more Christians to read the bible and understand it because that will inevitably lead to more atheists.

[Saya]

And after that he never refuses anyone. A good passage to prove that Jesus wasn't exactly infalliable. But also not stubborn about being a dickhead.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Saya

And after that he never refuses anyone. A good passage to prove that Jesus wasn't exactly infalliable. But also not stubborn about being a dickhead.

I don't know, (since I wasn't there) but it's pretty easy to see him being an ass here.

You know what's REALLY fucked up? I don't believe Jesus was divine, and thus I doubt he ever actually healed anyone.

If that's true he had this poor woman come to him, he treated her, quite literally like a dog, and then, only after she pitifully submitted to him did he tell her (falsely) that her mentally ill daughter had been healed (presumably just to get rid of her).

That shit be whack yo.

[Despanan]

Also: You said he wasn't a dick to the Gentiles. Clearly he was.

And for that matter, how can you be both divine and fallible?

[ape descendant]

Originally Posted by Despanan

I agree,

I'm just asking them to play by the rules their divine book very clearly sets down.

We've seen that statistically, Christians know far less about their own religion than atheists. I want more Christians to read the bible and understand it because that will inevitably lead to more atheists.

....Leviticus.... *shudders*

[Despanan]

Speaking of which, has anyone read AJ Jacob's "My Year Living Biblically?"

I'm interested in this book, he talks about it here.

[ape descendant]

I don't see how any one really could live biblically in a modern society... you'd have to go live in cave somewhere...or spend a lot of money for sacrificial critters to regain "cleanliness" after sitting anywhere in a public setting.

I mean really, how many chicks are going to put up with some dimwit asking them if they're on the rag or not?

[Despanan]

That's why he brought his own stool everywhere.

He also threw pebbles at an adulterer.

[ape descendant]

OMFG wow.... just wow....

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Saya

And after that he never refuses anyone. A good passage to prove that Jesus wasn't exactly infalliable. But also not stubborn about being a dickhead.

All this talk about being a dickhead and being mean is immaterial. We're talking about being a RATIONAL and REASONABLE human being. Not some Let It All Be wimp. Bad behavior can be identified for what it is. It's bad behavior. But pointing out the stupidity of a positive claim on divinity based on a book of barbarism and hearsay is NOT bad behavior. Desp and I KNOW that the way we present our ideas are incendiary. But if presentation is your only problem, then STFU and get with the program.

This is actually my problem with you guys. You'd much rather be NICE than be RIGHT. D and I could be NICE and RIGHT, but we really don't have to. Being mean and right is STILL better than being nice and wrong.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Also: You said he wasn't a dick to the Gentiles. Clearly he was.

And for that matter, how can you be both divine and fallible?

I don't know, you're asking the wrong person here.

I haven't read My Year Living Biblically yet, I was curious about it but I keep forgetting to look up reviews. According to wiki its going to be a movie, interesting.

Kontan, presentation is far from my only problem, generally its alienation that I don't like. If I didn't like you guys saying bad things about religion because you're not being nice, I probably wouldn't have taken the "kill yourself" thread as good as I did. My point only ever is is that liberal religious folk, particularly liberal Christians, can be allies. Granted, what we discuss on a forum vehemently wouldn't mean you wouldn't take anything from the Salvation Army even if you were starving to death.

[Despanan]

Liberal and moderate Christians can be allies if they will vote for and support a more secular society.

I don't really worry about alienating them because I'm not a politician. I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone running for office to voice the opinions I have -the result would be disastrous-

However, I think my view is an important one to get into the public consciousness. I intend to be offensive and polarizing because I want to force people who don't think about this stuff to think about it. I want people to ask themselves tough questions, I want more Christians to be aware of the bible and what it actually says because it will force them to make a choice:

"abandon the idea that this book is divine and this religion's values are out of disastrously out of sync with the modern word, or stand up and behave like a real believer"

There are too many Christians who do it because they were raised that way, and too many Christians who raise their children that way, because they were raised that way, and FAR too many Christians who want to oppress the rest of us with their book.

[Gloomy Sunday]

Wait.. Could you guys tell me why you're trying to turn others Athiest?
The best people could do is get rid of the Christians... Most religions don't hurt others... I mean, they used to, but not anymore. Christianity hasn't changed. he followers are still... Dickheads, I guess. Some aren't but alot are.

[Saya]

Kontan, I give you my blessing to be a dickhead now.

[Murder.Of.Crows]

Have you even read anything on this thread? No one is trying to turn people Atheist... You know what, i'm not even going to get into it, there are plenty of people here to do that and does it better than i could.

Edit: Damn. Saya, looks like i took too long to post. Now this post looks stupid. Oh well...

[Saya]

Nah, its fine, I got who you were talking to.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Gloomy Sunday

Wait.. Could you guys tell me why you're trying to turn others Athiest?
The best people could do is get rid of the Christians... Most religions don't hurt others... I mean, they used to, but not anymore. Christianity hasn't changed. he followers are still... Dickheads, I guess. Some aren't but alot are.

I want you to understand my words. Understand them well, pagan.

You're religion... is the mental refuse of a bad drug trip from the 60s. Addled minds who had no direction, no cause, oblivious and absent to the real world. You're religion is the result of an acid trip gone much too far. There is not a SHRED of reason to respect your religion. There is not a SHRED of reason for me to PARDON you for your KNEE JERK religious affiliation. Most likely, YOU are not a pagan out of some divinely inspired conviction, you're the dipshit who found the faults in Christianity yet could not grasp the idea that being without faith in an unprovable divine was another means of being a complete person. God certainly couldn't be real, but this really cool DnD hodgepodge you call paganism is TOTALLY where it's at. You replaced your Christianity for a far more STUPID and measurably less relevant brand of spirituality. YOU DESERVE LESS CONSIDERATION AND LESS RESPECT than moderate Christians who I find to be in the least, political allies yet hypocritical to their own faith. As far as you being a pagan goes.... SHUT THE FUCK UP, CHILD. The adults are talking. You have NOTHING to add to this discussion. Go back to your room and play with your FUCKING tarot cards.

I DARE you to prove to me that your spiritual beliefs are actually real. You tell me WHY you're fantasies are good for me if they're good for you. Unless you don't want to be treated like an adult. I wont bother eviscerating your fucking delusions.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Saya

Kontan, presentation is far from my only problem, generally its alienation that I don't like. If I didn't like you guys saying bad things about religion because you're not being nice, I probably wouldn't have taken the "kill yourself" thread as good as I did. My point only ever is is that liberal religious folk, particularly liberal Christians, can be allies. Granted, what we discuss on a forum vehemently wouldn't mean you wouldn't take anything from the Salvation Army even if you were starving to death.

My problem with liberal christians is NOT that they're christian. It's that they're practicing hypocrisy. Fine... do whatever you want for the good of the people and if it makes you feel even better, put the Jesus seal of approval on it. But at the end of the day, my political allies in Christ are HYPOCRITES to their own faith. Tell me I'm wrong when their own deity can be quoted for some of the shit that he said.

Alienation? Their alienation is THEIR fault. I have no duty or reason WHATSOEVER to respect their hypocrisy. And there's nothing wrong with me saying a spade is a spade, Saya. At the end of the day, they are just hypocritical. That's the only thing that rubs me the wrong way with them. Other than that, they're alright.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I want you to understand my words. Understand them well, pagan.

You're religion... is the mental refuse of a bad drug trip from the 60s. Addled minds who had no direction, no cause, oblivious and absent to the real world. You're religion is the result of an acid trip gone much too far. There is not a SHRED of reason to respect your religion. There is not a SHRED of reason for me to PARDON you for your KNEE JERK religious affiliation. Most likely, YOU are not a pagan out of some divinely inspired conviction, you're the dipshit who found the faults in Christianity yet could not grasp the idea that being without faith in an unprovable divine was another means of being a complete person. God certainly couldn't be real, but this really cool DnD hodgepodge you call paganism is TOTALLY where it's at. You replaced your Christianity for a far more STUPID and measurably less relevant brand of spirituality. YOU DESERVE LESS CONSIDERATION AND LESS RESPECT than moderate Christians who I find to be in the least, political allies yet hypocritical to their own faith. As far as you being a pagan goes.... SHUT THE FUCK UP, CHILD. The adults are talking. You have NOTHING to add to this discussion. Go back to your room and play with your FUCKING tarot cards.

I DARE you to prove to me that your spiritual beliefs are actually real. You tell me WHY you're fantasies are good for me if they're good for you. Unless you don't want to be treated like an adult. I wont bother eviscerating your fucking delusions.

Word. Now we know where this thread is gonna do, and I love it

[Saya]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

My problem with liberal christians is NOT that they're christian. It's that they're practicing hypocrisy. Fine... do whatever you want for the good of the people and if it makes you feel even better, put the Jesus seal of approval on it. But at the end of the day, my political allies in Christ are HYPOCRITES to their own faith. Tell me I'm wrong when their own deity can be quoted for some of the shit that he said.

Alienation? Their alienation is THEIR fault. I have no duty or reason WHATSOEVER to respect their hypocrisy. And there's nothing wrong with me saying a spade is a spade, Saya. At the end of the day, they are just hypocritical. That's the only thing that rubs me the wrong way with them. Other than that, they're alright.

Alright, fine enough with me.

[KontanKarite]

You're okay with their hypocrisy, Saya?

The only way to find that they're being hypocrites is to see how much of their own rule book they ignore for the good of the people. Yeah, it's great... but why would you be okay with that? Doesn't being intellectually honest and consistent mean anything at all?

[HumanePain]

Holy cow, I was busy the past few days with work and come back to what I was warning about: lack of tolerance of believers by non-believers.

Des and KK posts are representative of the anti-religious vitriol that will prolong the struggle for acceptance, not ease it. Your approach isn't debate, it is a polemic. I suppose it is good I was busy for a while as you proved my point yourself.

Although you demonstrated my point (with gusto!), personally I wish you hadn't as I had always thought you were open minded. But you are more narrow minded than Christian fundies! Wow.

So let me see if I understand your position: Because Christians don't follow the bible to the letter of the law they are hypocrites and should not be partners in building a future more accepting of non-believers?

[Saya]

Oh, I debate this shit all the live long day in school, and I have a bit of a reputation for being pretty harsh on people about it. But if I can't see it being harmful, such as the hippie dippie "live and let live" types, I can't get my panties in a twist about it anymore. I used to, but I find I'm a much more mellow and happy person when I can let the little things go, and I'm having a hard time finding a person who's totally honest and consistent. After that, debate is still fun but I don't feel its dire. In the end, its annoying, but there are bigger fish to fry.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Holy cow, I was busy the past few days with work and come back to what I was warning about: lack of tolerance of believers by non-believers.

Fuck YOU, Human_Pain. Mother FUCK you. Seriously. First, you didn't even tell us what you want from tolerance. You just throw it out there as if it's just a simple action and we DO tolerate your religion. What you're asking for is for us to PARDON bad ideas. To say that it's OKAY to be religious, even if you have ZERO good reasons to be so. And if you respected our positions at all, you'd understand why we can't do that.

Des and KK posts are representative of the anti-religious vitriol that will prolong the struggle for acceptance, not ease it. Your approach isn't debate, it is a polemic. I suppose it is good I was busy for a while as you proved my point yourself.

YOUR FUCKING FAITH DREW THE FUCKING LINES IN THE SAND! NOT ME. NOT DESPANAN. YOUR FAITH DID. AND WE JUST DEMAND THAT YOU OWN UP TO YOUR FUCKING BARBARIAN BOOK AND STOP FUCKING CHERRY PICKING YOUR HOLY TEXTS. IS THAT SO GOD DAMNED HARD FOR YOU?

Although you demonstrated my point (with gusto!), personally I wish you hadn't as I had always thought you were open minded. But you are more narrow minded than Christian fundies! Wow.

Hey, H_P. Watch the video and learn a little something about open mindedness.

So let me see if I understand your position: Because Christians don't follow the bible to the letter of the law they are hypocrites and should not be partners in building a future more accepting of non-believers?

NO. Because they are practicing hypocrisy in their faith, they're doing a disservice to themselves by lying to themselves. By ignoring the parts in the bible that DEMANDS they adhere to the will of God. I simply HELD YOU UP TO YOUR OWN FAITH'S STANDARDS and you DEMONIZE ME for it. I DID NOT EVER SAY THAT JESUS WAS THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER AND ACCEPTING HIS SACRIFICE AND DIVINITY WAS THE ONLY WAY TO SALVATION. That was YOUR BOOK. YOUR FAITH. ...Fuck you H_P. Fuck you so much.

[HumanePain]

Wow. Just...wow.
OK, so much for debate! Hope your day gets better man.