Latest from the Gaza Strip - Family Killed in Raid

[ArtificialOne]

Obviously Stern is insane or was once captured and brainwashed. America blah blah is blame, blah blah Palestinian victims..blah blah.. Jesus you have no comprehension of my post what so ever. Did I say Israel should drop bombs...? No, I said they'd be better off dropping puzzles, games and hobby supplies. What did I say about Palestine? That their tactics aren't working and is harming their people more than doing something else. The whole point of the conflict and the start has been lost now. The whole fight is meaningless. Not only meaningless but insane. Mainly because of people like stern forcing the Palestinians to believe in Hamas to continue to fight an unwinnable war and keep starving themselves to death. It isn't israel's fault they've had to cut off fuel and supplies from them. I don't think the govt sits there and says "Hey! Why don't we cut off all supplies to the palestinians for shits and giggles!". Do you think it might have been the other ones fault. The palestinians are far from victims anymore, maybe at one time they were. But that's all been lost now.

Arrogance.. Really stern, of allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the people in the entire Internet and Usenet groups I've ran across, you are the most arrogant and obnoxious person. And that's saying something, since I've been around a very long time on the net.

You claim you have the best interests of persons said, but with every breath it's "American arrogance this, imperial that. American people are arrogant and hateful... " Jesus you sound like a broken record. Saying all those things you proclaim is the truth, you believe you're righteous, in fact you believe your own truth is greater and better than the religious person you belittled. In all your insanity what do you think your behaviour makes you. I'm hoping you can figure that one out becuase I'm tired of typing it.

I love your blame the victim smear tactic. If a victim keeps getting themselves in a state that makes them a victim, then yeah, you can blame them. Regardless of the analogy you want to use the outcomes the same. The Palestinians are the ones who keep themselves being the victims and the Israelis are the ones who keep falling into the trap of having to retaliate and then the loop keeps going and going. You do know you can't reason with crazy people? And that's what the Israelis have been doing.

And then once again stern proves my point. A person who really has no caring of the people in point is using their propaganda to promote his west hating and anti-democratic principles on the masses. He tried to twist my post around and make me seem the big arrogant mean spirited hate filled American... ohohohoho boogey boogey look it's a big scary American... Ohohhhhooooohh <ghostnoises> Sounds crazy? Because it is. But people like stern try to make the situation so crazy to deflect the fact they make no sense at all. Tell me stern, has your way worked so far? Because my way hasn't been tried yet. So lets look at it this way: Your view and way hasn't worked in 20 years, yet you keep pushing it. Does that make any sense? You use it as some rallying cry for your whole belief system, but what does it accomplish when yelling wolf all the time. Face it, your way has failed, more than that. It's crashed and burned and is now carbonizing. How do I know that? Because history, not some illusion of mine has shown it's failed. Do I think the opinion I expressed in the previous post of mine is the right way, maybe not. But the big difference is I don't sit here typing away thinking my words are the words of god the almighty and have no wrong or fault in them. I'm just saying try something different and stop saying "poor Palestine", and that the "big boogey man of the west" is at fault. I think it's shown neither of those tacts have worked to date.

And before you spin my post into your insane ramblings of why and how I'm an arrogant American capitalist pig. I'm not saying my way is the right way. I am saying the previous ways haven't worked because we haven't left the station so to speak (and the trains on fire). Does it make me arrogant or whatever to say you're wrong, no it doesn't. Why? Because I haven't said I was right, or that I have the answers.

[AngelikDemonik]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Why not funnel food and medical aid to both sides instead of weapons and war machines? Call me crazy, but it just might be a good idea.

CRAZY.

Nah, it is a good idea. With my own personal experience with my Arab family/friends, they'd probably be too stubborn/proud to accept it.

On totally unrelated note, I really hate how whenever someone finds out that I am half Arab, their first response always is "Why don't you wear that thing on your head?" (this happened to me at work yesterday). I really hate having to explain that only SOME Muslims wear "that head thing" and that ANYONE can be Muslim and that not all Arabs are Muslim or have dark features (like me!) *end of non-related rant*

[ThreeEyesOni]

That's about as good of a suggestion as any. CHECK PLEASE!

</thread>

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Why not funnel food and medical aid to both sides instead of weapons and war machines? Call me crazy, but it just might be a good idea.

Thats something I could get behind, but lets not forget - America produces weapons, and sells medical supplies at a premium price.

Other than the uzi, all the guns being used in the Middle East come from America. Tanks, helicopters, etc. all that are being used by israel come from America.

On the flip side, the Palestinians also use weapons that come from America. They are funneled through other 'friendly' states like Saudi Arabia or Jordan, then are used to fight israel.

Much like the Iran/Iraq war - America is making money hand over fist by arming both sides. Also like that conflict - everything is being paid for with American tax dollars.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

What did I say about Palestine? That their tactics aren't working and is harming their people more than doing something else. The whole point of the conflict and the start has been lost now. The whole fight is meaningless.

How exactly are they no longer victims? They were forced out of their homes, and have yet to get them back. How exactly do you get that the fight is meaningless? There you go again passing judgment on a conflict you know nothing about, and on a race of people whose culture you have never even experienced.

Just because your the type of person to give up and run when faced with unsurmountable odds doesn't mean others are. How many Americans would die to protect their homes and families, even if they knew it would mean certain death?

I find it appalling that you support killing innocent women and children to prove a point. I would like to see them do that in America, to your friends and family, and see what you think.

For example,

Lets say some nut job goes off in your neighborhood or the neighborhood where your family lives. Is it alright for the cops to come in and kill every living person there with a few missiles fired from a helicopter? That not bother you? Why don't they just shut off food and water in the neighborhood and let everyone starve inside to get back at the one man. Thats what they do to the Palestinians. They kill HUNDREDS of innocent women and children a year this way. You support that?

If you support it so much then you shouldn't try and fight it when they want to do it in your neighborhood to your family.

If that did happen, would you not take issue? I mean, if the cops blew up your home, because your neighbor pissed them off, and killed your wife and child, you seriously would just 'get over it' like your advising them to?

It appears you really have no concept of whats going on over there mate.

[Apathy's_Child]

AO - it's kind of hard to take care of your people when so many of them have been relegated to an area so overcrowded it's impossible to live a reasonably comfortable life, which is regularly attacked (with little distinction being made between civilians and enemy combatants) and to which supplies are cut off. Your opinion that it's the Palestinian's own fault, as it's done in response to acts of violence, doesn't cut it - punishing the many for the actins of the few is the surest way to ensure that there will always be plenty more ready to strap up where the last lot came from. Also, let's not forget that the Israelis kill far more Palestinians (both soldiers AND civilians) than vice versa. Your line of reasoning strays uncomfortably far into the realm of fascism.

I wanted to make a lot of replies to this thread while reading through, but Sternn seems to have covered most of them. So for now, I'll just stand behind him. And nod.

[Megansmom]

I'm kind of new here ,but I have been reading this thread and I am confused. Well not really confused , just wondering how some of you have made it this long in life.
Let me get say this in the kindest most respectful way I can. Some of you are nut jobs. I've read every thread and all have valid points and some text have been so twisted by others I wonder how the people get through the day and if they are this closed minded about everything except to their own points of view. Must be all the Advil.
So here goes my opinion and Lord I can not wait to see how it'll be twisted.
Palestine wants to be it's own country but yet it wants Israel to provide it with it's needs. What's wrong with that picture? Every other country in the world makes their own power, has more than 1 trading partner to get supplies in the country , and more than 1 border.
It's my understanding that Egypt has built a wall to separate it's self from Palestine and they don't allow the Palestinian people in there country.It is their right to do so , but why doesn't the Palestinian government work a deal with Egypt to knock down the wall or open up some of it's border to get supplies in the country and buy electricity from them until they can figure how to make their own?
Is there some reason why Egypt won't help them could it be they don't recognize the government there either? Maybe , Maybe not . They claim they want to help them with peace talks with Israel but what about these other things. If they truly wanted to help they would take action and do something but I'm not getting the feeling they care either way.
People seem to forget that Egypt had original control of the Gaza Strip till Israel won it in there fight for liberation. (To the victor goes the spoils ) It has not been it's own country for at least oh 75 years. They didn't liberate them either nor did they see fit to make it part of Egypt then or to offer it's people there protection but surely some of the old infrastructure stands and could be made use of today.
People are also not taking into account that Palestine launched over 800 missiles into Israeli towns and over 200 suicide/ regular bombings last year alone . Forgive me , but if someone is bombing my country I'm giving back the same and doing whatever I can to stop it. One of the Governments job is to protect it's people as best as it can or be overthrown.
Isn't bombing you neighbor a stupid thing to do anyway especially when they have this much control over your country and a much better military? You might else well drop a bomb on your country yourself and leave the world a beautiful suicide note. It would cost a lot less and save a whole lot of time.
Hello have we not heard of self preservation guys? A little butt kissing and a little hand shaking and meaning it might go a long ways toward that. Give yourself a few years of not bombing said neighbor and see what happens. You might find yourself able to stand on your own two feet and a neighbor willing to leave you be.
What does it matter who's supplying Israel? What I want to know is who's supplying the Gaza Strip? If they are so poor , how come they have missiles to fire on Israel? And why do they keep encouraging these people to attack a country they cannot beat? Shouldn't they be helping them build and clean up the country not causing it to self destruct?
Victims? Yes , but not to Israel. Israel gave them the land and country they wanted. They are Victims to the people that are supposedly helping them by giving them the bombs to attack Israel when they should be helping them. Victims to their own government which is nothing but a terrorist organization . This caused them to lose any economic aid from several countries
I don't see your point trying to make America the bad guy either. Russia and China sales arms to other countries too. As matter of a fact here lately Russia has been selling more than America and Palestine has been getting a lot of there weapons from Russia through whatever sources arm them. So wouldn't that make them guilty too under your logic that whoever arms one is guilty so whomever arms the other should be too.
Don't discount religious beginnings either. There's 3 religions teaching the same story about Abraham and Sarah only in different words.If you read the story and use any knowledge of human nature it is possible for a grudge to carry on for 3000 plus years. There's impatience, adultery, jealousy, greed, discontentment, taunting , illegitimate/legitimate heirs, fighting and in the end hatred. Anyone of these can cause a " family squabble" as it's been called here and keep retelling it , it keeps going.
Besides who knows human nature better than the creator ? And just because the weapons and days are different , the two peoples are the same and that's a lot of hatred they keep stirred up .
Just saying that could have a lot to do with how the Middle East sees things too and why they feel Israel shouldn't exist. Could you have a hatred for Jews that your not aware of? Have any of you asked yourself that question? I pretty much get that you hate Christians so It's not to far fetched me to believe that you hate Jews also.
As far as the Bible chapter goes Stern, you are only right about the seal. The seal in chp 13 of revelations is about how the rise of the antichrist and his deception of the people lest. And get of your rocker about the catholic church it wasn't knocked just it's violent history wasn't denied and it was acknowledged. How do you know that she's not catholic and is just willing to own up to it's past? Everything has a history some parts good but some parts bad and you have to take it all not just the parts you want to.
And what was so wrong with being told it's okay for you believe or not to believe whatever you want? Or are you just so needy of an argument that you have to misinterpret everything? No , I've already got a pretty good idea because you do it to a lot people because they don't agree with you, so don't answer that
Oh and the un sanctions you need are on the un web site .They list all 16 sanctions and all the reprimands.(Iraq) Your web sites were just a little too 1 sided for me so I went to the source The Un. Your numbers were a little off on sanctions against Israel there's been a total of 101 but most of them are as one sided as you .Just thought you might want to know that.
And to the person who thought Hussein was being logical when he was killing his people are you off your rockers? What is logical about mass murders and rapes? There is no excuse for it and I know of no religions that condone it.
I liked the idea of dropping puzzles, games and hobby supplies. It's a lot less violent and maybe having something to do that's constructive will make them less prone to destroy everything.
To make a long and short of it, Israel has the right to defend herself and Palestine and the rest of the middle east needs to just accept it and help Palestine needs to get rid of her terrorist organization of a government and put one in that'll be too busy taking care of the citizens needs that they won't be lobbing bombs at a country they can not nor will be able to in the near future defeat. They are there own country now start acting like one .

[insolitus_noir]

Originally Posted by Megansmom

(To the victor goes the spoils )

And might makes right, etc., etc., etc.. History in a nutshell; contemporary politics in a sound bite. Again, force, not reason, determines the winning side of an argument.

[Apathy's_Child]

I wish people would shut the fuck up about anti-Americanism. We may not have the only corrupt government in the world, but we have one of the most (if not the most) powerful, which is a damn good reason to question who it's tossing weapons to and why.

[Megansmom]

So history says. And yes force does solve a lot of issues . Not a good way to solve arguments , but as history has proven where politics are involved there are rarely any issue solved with reason.
Some people are spewing anti-American sentiment here . There is a lot of difference between questioning hey congress who are you selling weapons to , giving aid too, and why and outright blaming America for the world's problems. Some people can not distinguish between the two based on some of these threads.
just give me an advil. My brain hurts after this.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Megansmom

Just saying that could have a lot to do with how the Middle East sees things too and why they feel Israel shouldn't exist. Could you have a hatred for Jews that your not aware of? Have any of you asked yourself that question? I pretty much get that you hate Christians so It's not to far fetched me to believe that you hate Jews also.

I was going to explain in great detail, the fallicy of this statement. But instead, I'll just leave you with this:

Go mother fucking fuck your fucking self.

[insolitus_noir]

Originally Posted by Megansmom

So history says. And yes force does solve a lot of issues . Not a good way to solve arguments , but as history has proven where politics are involved there are rarely any issue solved with reason.

Force never solves anything; it only defers a solution. It creates the illusion of a solution. The problem with violence, whether revolutionary, conquering, or other, is that it perpetuates itself in a cycle. A Palestinian suicide bomber blows up and kills civilians, Israel retaliates and also kills civilians. Revenge, revenge, and more revenge.

Originally Posted by Megansmom

Some people are spewing anti-American sentiment here.

No, they're not. Criticizing American foreign policy is not tantamount to criticizing *America*. Raising accusations of anti-americanism is, intentionally or not, a rhetorical tactic that functions to silence dissent.

It's sad, but the US government does a lot of things the American people aren't aware of. Iran-Contra is an example, but just the tip of the iceberg. But just because the US government does bad things doesn't mean the American people are bad. People here are criticizing the policies of the government, criticizing the mainstream (read: corporate) media for biased reporting, and mourning the fact that so many people, Israeli and Palestinian, are locked in a seemingly endless clusterfuck and suffering greatly as a result. I suspect everyone here would rather see a US that lives up to its self-image as a moral beacon than what it is perceived as now.

[KontanKarite]

Insolitus, thank you. You seemed to have found words that my fingers were too tired to find.

[insolitus_noir]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Insolitus, thank you. You seemed to have found words that my fingers were too tired to find.

Glad to be of service, Kontan.

[ArtificialOne]

My god stern, I need to know who brainwashed you, they did an awesome job. FYI Here's what fascism means, apparently you're too stupid to understand it or use it in it's proper context. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

I'm not going to sit here and try to define or defend whatever you try to represent what I said as fascist. Instead, I'll tell people you are using a common tactic by the wayyy extreme left to label anyone who disagrees with you or calls out anything you say as Fascist. Once you use this label, you try to cut off all discussion. You try to win the argument using the same tactics kids use. If you scream loud enough, make enough commotion and throw out enough baseless comments, you hope to shout out dissent and win.

Awesome post Megansmom, you pretty much sum up how I feel. Thing is, people like stern intentionally or not, fall lock stock and barrel behind the propaganda that Hamas and those groups spread. I understand peoples criticism of America, what I can't understand is why they buy so much into the rhetoric and outright lies spewed by some of these organizations.

"It appears you really have no concept of whats going on over there mate."
Stern

Yeah....... You are so well informed oh great one... You do know you are the epitome of arrogant, self centered and egotistical don't you?

I still don't see how you can possibly convey anything you posted about me from what I wrote. But, you made my point on crazy is as crazy does. I'd sure like to debate you, but I'm afraid I couldn't get enough anti-psychotics to tranq you down enough to hold a half logical conversation about tacos let alone politics.

Can't wait to see how you spin this.. I'll need to get some popcorn and a big coke manufactured using child labor in Vietnam while killing soft fluffy pink bunnies and care bears... <yeah, that was joke if you didn't get it, but you're so stark raving mad I'm sure you and your kind will go stark raving mad and frothy at the mouth at the mere mention of such things... you're all too serious.> Go ahead and prove my point, it's like bating bears.. oh wait.. ALF will come after me for that one...

[Megansmom]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I was going to explain in great detail, the fallicy of this statement. But instead, I'll just leave you with this:

Go mother fucking fuck your fucking self.

Why are you afraid to honestly explore how you feel about the subject of your own prejudices? We all have them just some of us aren't afraid to admit they have them and deal with them
It's not an easy thing to do self examination of ones true motives. Often we don't like what we see and try to find any other explanation than the truth. Whatever the reason we turn to self preservation and lash out rather because it's easier to do than to admit we have faults. Which as humans we all have a lot of.
What's wrong with asking people to explore their motives to make sure they are the correct one? Hey just asked a question and see what an answer I get: none and cussed at, what rudeness.
As for master baiting , that sounds like a lot more fun than doing you. Not enough willingness to explore all opinions on you part. or at least your verbally inept to express how you truly feel.

[Megansmom]

My god stern, I need to know who brainwashed you, they did an awesome job. FYI Here's what fascism means, apparently you're too stupid to understand it or use it in it's proper definition

I'm not going to sit here and try to define or defend whatever you try to represent what I said as fascist. Instead, I'll tell people you are using a common tactic by the wayyy extreme left to label anyone who disagrees with you or calls out anything you say as Fascist. Once you use this label, you try to cut off all discussion. You try to win the argument using the same tactics kids use. If you scream loud enough, make enough commotion and throw out enough baseless comments, you hope to shout out dissent and win.

Awesome post Megansmom, you pretty much sum up how I feel. Thing is, people like stern intentionally or not, fall lock stock and barrel behind the propaganda that Hamas and those groups spread. I understand peoples criticism of America, what I can't understand is why they buy so much into the rhetoric and outright lies spewed by some of these organizations.

"It appears you really have no concept of whats going on over there mate."
Stern

Yeah....... You are so well informed oh great one... You do know you are the epitome of arrogant, self centered and egotistical don't you?

I still don't see how you can possibly convey anything you posted about me from what I wrote. But, you made my point on crazy is as crazy does. I'd sure like to debate you, but I'm afraid I couldn't get enough anti-psychotics to tranq you down enough to hold a half logical conversation about tacos let alone politics.

Can't wait to see how you spin this.. I'll need to get some popcorn and a big coke manufactured using child labor in Vietnam while killing soft fluffy pink bunnies and care bears... <yeah, that was joke if you didn't get it, but you're so stark raving mad I'm sure you and your kind will go stark raving mad and frothy at the mouth at the mere mention of such things... you're all too serious.> Go ahead and prove my point, it's like bating bears.. oh wait.. ALF will come after me for that one...[/quote]
Please send me a diet coke machine . And pink bunnies are best served fried.
They really really don't have much of a sense of humor here. Especially with different points of view.
Actually my kids are offended about the comment about these reactions being kid like: they know better than to use those words. They are way to immature of statements for a person of 14 to use, and they show a lack of communication skills( Not my words but those of my 14 year old daughter and my 16 year old son agrees and they never agree on anything.Scary)
Glad to know I am not going to be the only cursed at in here. Are we gonna need a support group like say AA (Aggravated Anon) because if we are I need to make it official so I can bill payments to my insurance

[Wednesday Friday Addams]

Megansmom can you please learn how to quote?

[Megansmom]

Originally Posted by Wednesday Friday Addams

Megansmom can you please learn how to quote?

Would be offering some assistance in this area? Because I really really want to learn how.

[Wednesday Friday Addams]

Good job! Now remember to do that for the rest of your posts and reading them will be a breeze.

[insolitus_noir]

Originally Posted by Megansmom

Why are you afraid to honestly explore how you feel about the subject of your own prejudices? We all have them just some of us aren't afraid to admit they have them and deal with them

Don't you think this is an incredibly condescending question, not to mention outrageously offensive? I won't speak for Kontan or the good Captain, but I have to say that as justified or not as it was for you to get cussed out, it can't come as a surprise that you would anger someone who has shown no prejudice against the Jewish people. As we discussed earlier in this thread, it seems that whenever Israel is criticized, someone brings up charges of anti-Semitism. Along with charges of anti-Americanism, it's the typical rhetorical tactic to stifle objection to the Politically Correct Gospel that Israel and America can do no wrong.

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

Obviously Stern is insane or was once captured and brainwashed.

It never ceases to amaze me how people beholden to that bloody left/right dichotomy accuse their opponents of doing the very thing they themselves do before they can get called out on it. Jonah Goldberg tried that with a book tying liberals to fascism., and you, ArtificialOne, are doing a marvelous job doing the same thing. You have a beef with Stern. I get it. You think he's lighting a match to burn the house down...butyour solution is to bring in the flamethrower? My, my. I sure love me the smell of ash in the mornin'. I can't say your name-calling and comments like "yeah, that was joke if you didn't get it, but you're so stark raving mad I'm sure you and your kind will go stark raving mad and frothy at the mouth at the mere mention of such things" displays any great maturity, erudition, or open-mindedness.

As for the propaganda charges, would you care to back up your claims? Reading the foreign press, paying attention to non-corporate media sources like MotherJones and Democracy Now, even the Associated Press actually conveys useful information once in a while; all of these paint a picture that is as unflattering of Israel as it is of Palestine. Although, mainstream media here, like the big papers and AP are beholden to the view that Israel, as a key US ally and friend, can't be criticized TOO harshly. This is why we never hear about Israel's arsenal of nuclear weapons and why we have to make an effort to get a real picture of how bad living conditions are for Palestinians. And where do I get off saying such things?

For once, it would be nice to have a sane discussion on the topic, but alas, it seems the options are to preach to the choir or put on flame-retardant underpants. For effen's sake.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Megansmom

Why are you afraid to honestly explore how you feel about the subject of your own prejudices? We all have them just some of us aren't afraid to admit they have them and deal with them
It's not an easy thing to do self examination of ones true motives. Often we don't like what we see and try to find any other explanation than the truth. Whatever the reason we turn to self preservation and lash out rather because it's easier to do than to admit we have faults. Which as humans we all have a lot of.
What's wrong with asking people to explore their motives to make sure they are the correct one? Hey just asked a question and see what an answer I get: none and cussed at, what rudeness.
As for master baiting , that sounds like a lot more fun than doing you. Not enough willingness to explore all opinions on you part. or at least your verbally inept to express how you truly feel.

Okay, fine. I didn't think I had to explain it. I figured maybe you'd be smart enough to see the error in your statement. Alas, it isn't so. Firstly, I'll say that in lieu of the comment, not only was I pointing out the fallacy of your sweeping generalization and accusation of anti-semitic ideals in this thread directed at the ones involved in this topic, the statement itself, is just too damned funny not to use.

First and foremost, you claim that we hate Christians. Allow me to make something strikingly clear, since you seem to be directing your comments to not just the individual and their own merit, but a whole group of people that you don't know. I and many others here, do not HATE Christians. We're more in line with indifference, not hate. Also, we don't HATE believers in Christ, we HATE the abuse of something as beautiful as that teachings of Christ to support one's own agendas, wanting to usher in a theocracy that tramples on the very spirit of being free moral agents and individuals.

The very fact that you come to this forum, assume that we all hate Christians and then to be so bold as to claim that since we hate a group of people, that we must also hate Jews. What the fuck? Too wrapped up in the sensationalism of the those who were far removed from a group of people, yet somehow, we have been demonized by the media anyway? Manson and Columbine. Did you really buy into all that bullshit? So bold as to say we have hate against people. What of your prejudices, elder bat? You come back to the fold, looking for companionship and fraternity and then you accuse that same group of being Christian hating, anti-semitic, Jew haters.

Know that in truth, I'm only mildly offended by your statements. Other than the fact that you called me a Christian hating and antisemitic asshole, I have nothing against you.

So in light of it all, you can be offended by me telling you to go mother fucking fuck your fucking self or you can look back at it and find the humor in the statement as well. Sure, I insulted you, but it's fucking funny too.

[Megansmom]

Actually , I did find your cussing me funny. No offense, but you use the word fuck too much so I just had to rephrase it a little bit. There are more explicit words and phrases in the English language . So next time would you cuss me a little more eloquently?
Oh and my husband said to tell you thank you for suggestion that I master bate (fuck myself as you put it.) We hadn't had that much fun in awhile. He wanted to know if you had anymore ideas. ( See humor)
Your right I should have called out the person who made the statement that made it appear they hate Christians , I just figured everyone would be smart enough not to take it personal or at least ask why I got that opinion . I keep forgetting how defensive and emotional people can be.
If you are going in a subculture as demonized as you believe you are you need to grow a tough skin. Especially, if you are in a small town or grow one twisted sense of humor.
People in general as I said before do have prejudice . We have to deal with our own and sadly others. Prejudice isn't just about hate against people, it's about judging unkindly about things you don't know much about or anything you don't understand. Such as sexual preferences, subcultures. religions, music , and so forth.you get my point? And I am sorry I didn't didn't take into consideration that some people still judge goths so harshly.
Elder Bat , hmm , I like that name . Wish I had of thought of thought of that, care if I use that ? Maybe I can find a really cool bat avatar. One with spiked hair and a red corset with a droopy arse and wrinkled leggs in flat boots.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Other than the uzi, all the guns being used in the Middle East come from America. Tanks, helicopters, etc. all that are being used by israel come from America.

Thats bullshit. I assume you mean Israel but its still wrong. Excluding the Uzi, I suppose the majority of weapons are American, with a large amount of their troops using Armalite varients (M16's and M4's). They do have other weapons though so you can't say all.

Desert Eagle - Ok so this might be an American design I think, but manufactured in Israel as one of the smaller calibre models and I believed is used as a sidearm.

MP5 PDW - submachine gun

IMI Galil - Ok so this one is pretty much gone due to the Armalites. Assualt rifle.

Tavor TAR-21 - Another assault rifle.

Negev - support weapon

The special forces also have access to the P226 (Sig Sauer), Glock models, the Jericho, the Uzi and more.

I don't know much about how the airforce or any armour they use, but I found the Merkava battle tank on google.

They do get a lot from the US though.
I don't know much about the Palestinians but they have a lot of different stuff I think, with a lot of AK's.

What exactly do you mean, the US made money from the Iraq war? I'm sure the cost of everything they've done outweighs any money made from arms dealing...
--------

Megansmom:
Quotes are done by typing {QUOTE=name of person}text{/QUOTE} but with square brackets.
Most of your last post seems to just be you pissed off.

[Raptor]

Hmm edit button caused my internet to freeze both times I tried to use it. So forgive the use of "a lot" three time in two sentances.