gay marriages

[Loy]

Gays wanna get married. Before, they wanted to join the military. Then they wanted to join the clergy.

I think this shows how screwy gay people are. To think, trying so hard to join in on all the worst aspects of this society....

[WolfMoon]

Originally Posted by Loy

Gays wanna get married. Before, they wanted to join the military. Then they wanted to join the clergy.

I think this shows how screwy gay people are. To think, trying so hard to join in on all the worst aspects of this society....

There's nothing bad about marrige, the clergy or the military.

Granted, some people shouldn't marry, but that's their decision.And some people marry for the wrong reasons and later end up in divorce.But I've also known quite a few happily married people that can actually stand each other 25 years and counting.

The military is bad?Last I checked it was necessary to have a fighting force to protect your country.

The Clergy,hhmmmm, I don't have a real problem with them.I just don't see how people deluded themselves into thinking priests haven't been molesting boys since the preisthood began.It is unnatural to abstain from sex for a lifetime and I don't believe anyone who says they could live their whole lives with out it.Hell I don't even think the mythical "Jesus" even went without.

[Takhisis]

Originally Posted by Maimy

What certain state governments have tried recently is to create laws ALLOWING gays to marry. Quite contrary to what you may have heard, nobody has to try to outlaw gay marriage right now. They're trying to IN-LAW (heh), it actually.

Well, other than that whole "Amendment to the US Constitution" thing going on...

I found the best quote on LJ today, which I feel like memorizing for the next individual who tries to toss bible quotes at me as to why gay love is wrong:

Mark 7:15 - There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him.

So, to quote the person who originally posted it, "So ... butt-sex for all!" :lol:

[comatoast]

Originally Posted by Loy

Gays wanna get married. Before, they wanted to join the military. Then they wanted to join the clergy.

I think this shows how screwy gay people are. To think, trying so hard to join in on all the worst aspects of this society....

I have not made my opinion known about this subject. I have left it alone because I didn't want to offend anyone I have come to know as friends.
But, Loy, you aren't one of those.

As far as the marriages go...Gays pay taxes, are consumers, are politicians, are a part of society to begin with. What the US has said is:" Buy our products..pay your taxes and be loyal to a country that won't let you marry someone you feel is your soulmate. The one person you want to spend the rest of your life with. We don't care if he/she makes you overwhelmingly happy..you can't do it..but keep buying our products and paying your taxes."

BULLSHIT!!!
I approaced this from a rational standpoint. If someone was trying to keep me away from the one person that I knew in my heart and soul that I couldn't live withtout. They wouldn't be standing for too long. I'd plow through them to get to her. Same thing with the government. It is an arcane, obsolete idea. If two people love each other it doesn't matter if it's a man&woman, man&man, woman&woman, dog,goat, man&transexual(well..ok in that instance it'd be a no) then let them be together. I think homosexuality is creepy(In my opinion) but love it love is love is love. More power to them all.
This from a conservative...

As far as the military and the clergy go, boy(and I'm sure you are one) you have, apparently, never served in either one. The heads of the militray may be fucked in the head and make needless wars but the men and women who fight for what they believe in and DIE for their country and their duty. They are doing what they feel is right and good. They are fucking heroes. You join, spend a few months out of state and you come back to some snot nosed punk like you saying the military is screwed up. Fuck off

Clergy is the same way. These men and woman have devoted their lives to helping others and furthering their own understanding of the universe. Be it Pagan, chirstian, jew, muslim, buddhist, you name it. These people have chosen what they believe to be their life's work. Again, you have , apparently, NOT been ordained in anyway or you might understand. Many of these people have died for their beliefs and for their convictions. So..again...fuck off


and in case I haven't said it enough


FUCKOFF

[WolfMoon]

Toasty,

You're a site more eloquent than I.Hear,hear!!!

[comatoast]

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

Toasty,

You're a site more eloquent than I.Hear,hear!!!

LOL


Thank you...I think... :wink:

[comatoast]

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

Hell I don't even think the mythical "Jesus" even went without.

He didn't . He was married(but that's for a religious thread)

It was peter who set forth the no sex doctrine. He felt that sex was wrong and he was never married(and considered himself the most devout follower of chirst) so he thought that those who taught the word should go without. Big mistake

[Maimy]

Am I the only person who saw that Loy's tongue appeared to be lodged in a cheek there?

[Soul_Immortal]

Ok, for the military there is a "Don't ask, Don't tell" rule when it comes to homosexuality. As long as you keep it to yourself and out of the time spent in the service, you are good. My own formed opinion.


I agree with Comatoast

If they allowed the gay community to marry in other states, that means money would be spent, meaning profits on vacations, etc.,....Even our own gov't won't see the financial side of it.

**I am not stressing this as a point or single reason why gays should marry. This is just a simple example of benefits that refuse to be noticed. Personally, I think it sucks that if 2 women or men are partnered together [for a long/short time, are in love and committed] and one ends up in the hospital, they most likely will not be allowed to see their loved one because they are in fact, not married or family.**

Again, I don't know much about the gay community, I feel if you find love with someone then you are lucky. Feel free to comment, spam me, flame me,.....its just my opinion. All replies welcome.Good or Bad. Not meaning to offend anyone at all.


~*Soul*~

[raven_of_mourning]

ok well heh such a great thread... i personally think it is interesting no one has posted anything saying the it is wrong... i wonder if those people are scared they are going to be harrassed and persecuted on this board???... ok here is my opinion. Marriage has become a government institution, it is the government that issues the marriage license and allows people to get married... now since it is a government institution then they make the rules, now whether they should or shouldnt allow gay marriages i wont say yay or nay because i personally dont get involved with government so not my place to truly say... in my opinion one thing i cant stand is homosexuals trying to be married in a church that is christian.. also homosexuals that try to be clergy in the christian church... this is blatant disregard for what the bibile says... and then trying to get the church that supposedly bases all teaching on the Bible (which doesnt happen in christendom today but hey that is a TOTALLY different thread....) to support an action that goes against the bible....1 Corinthians 6:9,10... What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor MEN WHO LIE WITH MEN, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God's kingdom.......... now i know many people on this site are nto christian so dont think i am trying to say you people are wrong or anything i am just saying the homosexuals trying to live that lifestyle and be accepted by a christian church are hypocritical and even worst are any churches that so accept them.... sodom and gamora were destroyed for homosexuality among other things... now please dont flame me i am showing my opinion and shown references .. personally i could care less what people do with their lives just do try to pass it off as something that it goes against.. in my opinion.

[WolfMoon]

Originally Posted by comatoast

He didn't . He was married(but that's for a religious thread)

It was peter who set forth the no sex doctrine. He felt that sex was wrong and he was never married(and considered himself the most devout follower of chirst) so he thought that those who taught the word should go without. Big mistake

I was watching a very interesting show the other day that said Jesus and Mary Magdelin(sp?) were married.See, told ya. :P Not that I'm a christian or anything,but I thought it was a great show.

Guess we missed the tongue/cheek shot, Maims.

[raven_of_mourning]

I was watching a very interesting show the other day that said Jesus and Mary Magdelin(sp?) were married.See, told ya. Not that I'm a christian or anything,but I thought it was a great show.

dont beleive everything you see wolfie.... most of those shows that say things that happen have no relevent proof to back up their ideas.

[WolfMoon]

Originally Posted by raven_of_mourning

ok well heh such a great thread... i personally think it is interesting no one has posted anything saying the it is wrong... i wonder if those people are scared they are going to be harrassed and persecuted on this board???... ok here is my opinion. Marriage has become a government institution, it is the government that issues the marriage license and allows people to get married... now since it is a government institution then they make the rules, now whether they should or shouldnt allow gay marriages i wont say yay or nay because i personally dont get involved with government so not my place to truly say... in my opinion one thing i cant stand is homosexuals trying to be married in a church that is christian.. also homosexuals that try to be clergy in the christian church... this is blatant disregard for what the bibile says... and then trying to get the church that supposedly bases all teaching on the Bible (which doesnt happen in christendom today but hey that is a TOTALLY different thread....) to support an action that goes against the bible....1 Corinthians 6:9,10... What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor MEN WHO LIE WITH MEN, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God's kingdom.......... now i know many people on this site are nto christian so dont think i am trying to say you people are wrong or anything i am just saying the homosexuals trying to live that lifestyle and be accepted by a christian church are hypocritical and even worst are any churches that so accept them.... sodom and gamora were destroyed for homosexuality among other things... now please dont flame me i am showing my opinion and shown references .. personally i could care less what people do with their lives just do try to pass it off as something that it goes against.. in my opinion.

I just wanna know how christians can condemn gay people that are christian.After all, it is proven that gay people are born gay, it is not learned behavior.And so the real question is:Why would the christian's God allow somethingthat he sees as an abomination to be born in the first place?Doesn't make sense does it?Why would a God create something "evil" and then punish that very creation for doing what it was created to do?

I also refer you to a bible quote from Takhisis.

Originally Posted by Takhisis

Quote:
Mark 7:15 - There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him.


So, to quote the person who originally posted it, "So ... butt-sex for all!"

So it would seem that a gay christian isn't an oxy-moron, after all.

:twisted:

[WolfMoon]

Originally Posted by raven_of_mourning

dont beleive everything you see wolfie.... most of those shows that say things that happen have no relevent proof to back up their ideas.

Actually they do extensive research, as much as they can to back up their theories seeing as how they can't ask Jesus,himself.Historians try to do as thorough a job on 'religious' things as they do on Pompeii or ancient Egypt.So in my book it has as much relevance as any other historical show.

Edit:

And how do we prove the existence 'God'?There's no proof he's actually around.

[raven_of_mourning]

ok well that quote is total BS because it is not talking about a man getting has anus ripped open, allow me to finish that quote... "There is nothing outside a man that passes into him that can defile him; but the things that issue forth out of a man are the things that defile a man." btw allow me to give you some background info on this scripture... this was when the pharisees and some of the scribe from jerusalem came to jesus to try to put him to the test to see if he would say something they could use against him. Jesus went on to call down the pharisees because of their use of tradition to overburden people just as they made it tradition to wash up to the elbows *something not required by any law from the mosaic law covenant* allow me to completely finish the quote but starting from verse 9 of mark 7.... "Further, he went on to say to them "adroitly you set aside the commandment of God in order to retain your tradition. For example Moses said. "Honor your father and your mother, and "let him that reviles father or mother end up in death". But you men say "If a man says to his father or his mother; "Whatever i have by which you may get benedit from me is corban (corban = a gift dedicated to God) you men no longer let him do a single thing for his father or his mother, and thus you make the word of God invalid by your tradition which you handed down. And many things similar to this you do. So calling the crowd to him again, he proceeded to say to them: "listen to me, all of you, and get the meaning. There is nothing from outside a man that passes into him that can defile him; but the things that issue forth out of a man are the things that defile a man."
in other words it is not the LAW that is written down that defiels a man but the teaching of men against the law..... please if you are going to quote from the bible.. know what you are talking about. BTW the same people that have "proven" that people are born gay also have "proven" that there is no god and that life and the world came about by chance so you cant use one to argue the other...

[raven_of_mourning]

ugh i wasnt going to try to make this into any kinda of debate or argument but i guess you are wanting to force me into this.... now wait a mind wolfie... you just used the idea that since peopel are born gay how could god condemn them for what they are born as.. then you go on to say that there is no god...... please be coherent in your statements..... you want proof btw look around you look at how life is look at the procision that the universe moves. now i am not going to try to convince anybody that there is a god because i cant stand people that try to force any opinions on anyone else. but the precision that everything works and that odds that all of this could have possibly come by chance... are something along the lines of 1 in 24 sextillion... or should i say 1 in 24,000,000,000,000,000,000,000... when a number interms of odds reaches about 12 0's it becomes inpossible..... when we see the absolute beauty, when we see the watercycle see the way things work exactly the way they are suppose to, see the fact that if the earth was any more then 1 mile or so closer tot he sun or furtherway from the sun all water would boil or freeze i ask how could that possibly have been done by chance.

[WolfMoon]

Originally Posted by raven_of_mourning

ok well that quote is total BS because it is not talking about a man getting has anus ripped open, allow me to finish that quote... "There is nothing outside a man that passes into him that can defile him; but the things that issue forth out of a man are the things that defile a man." btw allow me to give you some background info on this scripture... this was when the pharisees and some of the scribe from jerusalem came to jesus to try to put him to the test to see if he would say something they could use against him. Jesus went on to call down the pharisees because of their use of tradition to overburden people just as they made it tradition to wash up to the elbows *something not required by any law from the mosaic law covenant* allow me to completely finish the quote but starting from verse 9 of mark 7.... "Further, he went on to say to them "adroitly you set aside the commandment of God in order to retain your tradition. For example Moses said. "Honor your father and your mother, and "let him that reviles father or mother end up in death". But you men say "If a man says to his father or his mother; "Whatever i have by which you may get benedit from me is corban (corban = a gift dedicated to God) you men no longer let him do a single thing for his father or his mother, and thus you make the word of God invalid by your tradition which you handed down. And many things similar to this you do. So calling the crowd to him again, he proceeded to say to them: "listen to me, all of you, and get the meaning. There is nothing from outside a man that passes into him that can defile him; but the things that issue forth out of a man are the things that defile a man."
in other words it is not the LAW that is written down that defiels a man but the teaching of men against the law..... please if you are going to quote from the bible.. know what you are talking about. BTW the same people that have "proven" that people are born gay also have "proven" that there is no god and that life and the world came about by chance so you cant use one to argue the other...

Touche,on the bible quotage.Southern Baptist?
But again, how do we know anything in the bible wasn't just so much made up drivel?After all, there are many animal species, in which homosexual arrangements are as common place as hetero.Bad animals,evil I say.The fires of HELL AWAITCHA!!!!

And I don't discount things that are proven by science so easily.At least they have looked for answers somewhere other than a 2000 year old storybook.

[WolfMoon]

Originally Posted by raven_of_mourning

ugh i wasnt going to try to make this into any kinda of debate or argument but i guess you are wanting to force me into this.... now wait a mind wolfie... you just used the idea that since peopel are born gay how could god condemn them for what they are born as.. then you go on to say that there is no god...... please be coherent in your statements..... you want proof btw look around you look at how life is look at the procision that the universe moves. now i am not going to try to convince anybody that there is a god because i cant stand people that try to force any opinions on anyone else. but the precision that everything works and that odds that all of this could have possibly come by chance... are something along the lines of 1 in 24 sextillion... or should i say 1 in 24,000,000,000,000,000,000,000... when a number interms of odds reaches about 12 0's it becomes inpossible..... when we see the absolute beauty, when we see the watercycle see the way things work exactly the way they are suppose to, see the fact that if the earth was any more then 1 mile or so closer tot he sun or furtherway from the sun all water would boil or freeze i ask how could that possibly have been done by chance.

I was refering to christians believing in god.I don't believe in one.But if you do why would your god create something he sees as evil and then punish it for being what he created it to be.Unless he is a truly sick and twisted god?And as far as Jesus goes,he was a real man,they have him listed in historical documents in Rome.But the son of some god?Uh,no.I don't believe that any more than I believe in Mohammed.

[raven_of_mourning]

oh i am really starting to love the hypocracy... no i am not southern baptist, i have simply studied the bible and know more about it then mister billy graham himself... but why is it that i state my opinion about something and get called down for it? i thought this was suppose to be a place of tolerance since it is the Goth group that gets called down for it's being different so i state something that is different from the regular opinions of people on this thread does that mean i get called down and interrogated and people try to prove me wrong? and you trying to say i dont look for answers elsewhere from the bible, i have spent years studying other religions other explanations... i am as open as anyone else oh and yes science can be used to explain the bible, the bible is not a anti science book like people beleive it is.. and i am not touchy about bible quotage i am touchy about people trying to use bible quote to prove something but mis-quote it and use it wrong, if you do anything do it right that is my biggest statement for life

[raven_of_mourning]

well like i said, the people that have "proven" that peopla re born gay also have "proven" that there is no god, personally i see flaws in both theories so i dont give either credit.

[WolfMoon]

Originally Posted by raven_of_mourning

oh i am really starting to love the hypocracy... no i am not southern baptist, i have simply studied the bible and know more about it then mister billy graham himself... but why is it that i state my opinion about something and get called down for it? i thought this was suppose to be a place of tolerance since it is the Goth group that gets called down for it's being different so i state something that is different from the regular opinions of people on this thread does that mean i get called down and interrogated and people try to prove me wrong? and you trying to say i dont look for answers elsewhere from the bible, i have spent years studying other religions other explanations... i am as open as anyone else oh and yes science can be used to explain the bible, the bible is not a anti science book like people beleive it is.. and i am not touchy about bible quotage i am touchy about people trying to use bible quote to prove something but mis-quote it and use it wrong, if you do anything do it right that is my biggest statement for life

No, I simply "called you down" for the simple fact that I know gay christians and don't believe that the bible can be taken as the actual words of the christian's god.After all the people that wrote it down were against homosexuality, how do christians know that they aren't living by the ideals of Peter or Paul or Moses,instead of their god?All I'm saying is how can it be wrong to be gay and a christian?Look at how conservative america was in the 50s and before that.Ideals change and the many people that 'wrote' the bible were very conservative.What if someone nowaday were to say "god spoke to me and I'm going to write down his every word and teach it"?We would think they were looney.So how do we know the ones that wrote the bible weren't?

And wasn't Jesus's purpose to teach love?I have a hard time believing that he would condone the death or persecution of someone just because they were gay.All we have to go on are the writing of a bunch of biased and sexist men.

[Takhisis]

Originally Posted by raven_of_mourning

in other words it is not the LAW that is written down that defiels a man but the teaching of men against the law..... please if you are going to quote from the bible.. know what you are talking about.

Actually I was being a smart-aleck with that one. Going along the lines of if people want to selectively take a part of a verse that also prohibits wearing blended fibers among other things, I'll selectively throw part of a verse back at them.

But if you want to continue with Mark 7:

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

The only sexual condemnations I see in there are adultery and fornication, which depending on which translation you're reading can mean anything from masturbation to premarital sex to pedophilia.

Yes, the beginning of the chapter is him chiding the lawmakers for being more focused on doctrines concerning hand-washing than God's commandments. But the middle is him explaining what he considers to be the evil, defiling things that men may hold in their hearts. That's just my $0.02

oh i am really starting to love the hypocracy... but why is it that i state my opinion about something and get called down for it? i thought this was suppose to be a place of tolerance since it is the Goth group that gets called down for it's being different so i state something that is different from the regular opinions of people on this thread does that mean i get called down and interrogated and people try to prove me wrong?

Being tolerant of differences is not the same as being disallowed to debate differing opinions. Everyone will disagree about something, and people can have factual or theoretical debate about those topics. If we were being "intolerant" we'd be banning anyone who held a different opinion, not having a theological debate on it.

and i am not touchy about bible quotage i am touchy about people trying to use bible quote to prove something but mis-quote it and use it wrong

I'm touchy about it too. That's why I thought using a snippet of Mark 7 would be appropriate to throw back at picketing individuals who like to toss out a snippet of Leviticus and ignore the rest.

[raven_of_mourning]

what is the Christian beleif based on? the teachings of Jesus who were recorded by ones that followed him and were in his prescense, and there after wrote them down in letter and the gospels, which were then compiled into the Bible, now you beleive that the Bible cant be taken as the actual words of the Christian's God, well that is how it is viewed, Bible aka the WORD OF GOD, and then you can go with 2 Timothy 3:!6 and say "All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching for reproving for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
of course this means nothing if you dont beleive that the bible is god's word or even beleiveing in God, but for ones that do beleive that the bib is god's word and that there is a god this scriptures proves that the bible isnt merely the ideals of the aposles but of god...

takhiss i wasnt saying you were quoting wrong i was saying wolfie was for using your quote, i understood the humor in how you used it, i wonder wolfie have you ever really had a study of the bible and what it teaches? personally i dont think you have seeing as how you beleive that the writers were sexist and biased.

[raven_of_mourning]

and i apologize for getting a bit edgy about when i said about being intolerant, just not feeling very well today now i am not some jesus freak or whatever all i said was my opinions, i viewed it as intolerance cause i didnt see anyone elses opinions really being questioned and called wrong.... but hey like i said i apologize for getting edgy

[ohthefuckwell]

*looks at maimy: the last one is MINE, dammit!!*

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

Unless he is a truly sick and twisted god?

we interrupt this thread to bring you a lyrical moment provided by otfw:


I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours
But I think that God's got a sick sense of humor
And when I die I expect to find Him laughing


(sorry....couldn't resist)




we now return you to the thread, already in progress.





carry on.....as you were.......go....now.......scoot!



*hee*