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Old 07-10-2007, 12:43 PM   #51
Underwater Ophelia
 
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First of all, the real definition of minority has nothing to do with literal number. That was already made clear in this thread.

Second of all, I don't know why you keep bring slavery into this, because what this thread is dealing with is nowhere near as heavy as slavery--which is the point I've been trying to make the whole time.

Lastly...Martin Luther King and Ghandi were fighting for things that actually matter.

My entire point this whole time is that goth really isn't that important. If you think it is, fine, but don't cry when you get shit for it.
You say we shouldn't stand for society being mean and unfair. No, we shouldn't have to, but guess what--we do. If you have a solution, I'd love to hear it, but you don't. No one does. The only solution is the one that's happening right now--time. There is no other way, and you just have to wait around for it. If you don't like it, fine, but don't complain about it, when you CHOOSE to dress the way you do.

I'm being realistic here.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:53 PM   #52
Rae Ven Rae
 
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minority:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
mi·nor·i·ty /mɪˈnɔrɪti, -ˈnɒr, -maɪ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mi-nawr-i-tee, -nor, -mahy-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -ties, adjective
–noun
1. the smaller part or number; a number, part, or amount forming less than half of the whole.
2. a smaller party or group opposed to a majority, as in voting or other action.
3. a group differing, esp. in race, religion, or ethnic background, from the majority of a population: legislation aimed at providing equal rights for minorities.
4. a member of such a group.
5. the state or period of being under the legal age of full responsibility.
–adjective
6. of or pertaining to a minority.



The solution is simple.

Be yourself.

People dont like it --tough.

They give yah grief-- give it back. That is the answer. It has always been the answer.

There are so many ways a man can be enslaved, spiritually and mentally as well as physically. Just because slavery isn't physical doesn't make it any less horrid.

Do you think this is just about a choice in clothing?

No.

It is about a choice in expression.

Take that away and you take away a persons right to simply "be".

So the solution.

Be yourself.

Period.

I won't change the way the world reacts -- I can only do what makes me happy --

No matter what choice you make in life, someone won't like it.

All I am saying hun is be yourself DESPITE the ugliness that society may give you -- to not care. That is the solution.

Being enslaved in the mind is just as bad as being enslaved in the body.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:54 PM   #53
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And when it comes of Ghandi and MLK Jr, what was their messages they were trying to promote?

Would you not find them in the least bit hypocritical if they actually HATED or had those notions to discriminate against a goth?

Goth isn't a nation, goth isn't really a people. But it's still there.

No offense, but you almost sound like "People hate goths because they can and it's completly okay to do so."

Hate and discrimination is NOT okay.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:57 PM   #54
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more definitions of minority:

The definition of a minority group can vary, depending on specific context, but generally refers to either a sub-group that does not form either a majority or a plurality of the total population, or a group that, while not necessarily a numerical minority, is disadvantaged or otherwise has less power (whether political or economic) than a dominant group. Examples of minorities in this latter context include women in some countries and African Americans in Mississippi in the 1920s ....

“Minority” redirects here. For other uses, see Minority (disambiguation).

A minority or subordinate group is a sociological group that does not constitute a politically dominant plurality of the total population of a given society. A sociological minority is not necessarily a numerical minority — it may include any group that is disadvantaged with respect to a dominant group in terms of social status, education, employment, wealth and political power. To avoid confusion, some writers prefer the terms "subordinate group" and "dominant group" rather than "minority" and "majority".

In socioeconomics, the term "minority" typically refers to a socially subordination ethnic group (understood in terms of language, nationality, religion and/or culture). Other minority groups include people with disabilities, "economic minorities" (working poor or unemployed), "age minorities" (who are younger or older than a typical working age) and sexual minorities (whose sexual orientation or gender identity differs from the sociological norm).

The term "minority group" often occurs alongside a discourse of civil rights and collective rights which gained prominence in the 20th century. Members of minority groups are subject to differential treatment in the society in which they live. This discrimination may be directly based on an individual's perceived membership of a minority group, without consideration of that individual's personal achievement. It may also occur indirectly, due to social structures that are not equally accessible to all. Activists campaigning on a range of issues may use the language of minority rights, including student rights, consumer rights and animal rights. In recent years, some members of social groups traditionally perceived as dominant have attempted to present themselves as an oppressed minority, such as white, middle-class heterosexual males.[1]

Studies have consistently shown a correlation between negative attitudes or prejudice toward minorities and social conservatism (as well as the converse, positive attitudes and social progressivism).[2] Minority groups in history, include Jews under Nazi Germany and African Americans in the Jim Crow period.[citation needed]

NOTICE: they say that the term MINORITY is in relation to a MAJORITY -- minorities aren't simply oppressed groups -- they are in the LITERAL numerical MINORITY as opposed to the national MAJORITY....
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:00 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae
minority:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
mi·nor·i·ty /mɪˈnɔrɪti, -ˈnɒr, -maɪ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mi-nawr-i-tee, -nor, -mahy-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -ties, adjective
–noun
1. the smaller part or number; a number, part, or amount forming less than half of the whole.
2. a smaller party or group opposed to a majority, as in voting or other action.
3. a group differing, esp. in race, religion, or ethnic background, from the majority of a population: legislation aimed at providing equal rights for minorities.
4. a member of such a group.
5. the state or period of being under the legal age of full responsibility.
–adjective
6. of or pertaining to a minority.



The solution is simple.

Be yourself.

People dont like it --tough.

They give yah grief-- give it back. That is the answer. It has always been the answer.

There are so many ways a man can be enslaved, spiritually and mentally as well as physically. Just because slavery isn't physical doesn't make it any less horrid.

Do you think this is just about a choice in clothing?

No.

It is about a choice in expression.

Take that away and you take away a persons right to simply "be".

So the solution.

Be yourself.

Period.

I won't change the way the world reacts -- I can only do what makes me happy --

No matter what choice you make in life, someone won't like it.

All I am saying hun is be yourself DESPITE the ugliness that society may give you -- to not care. That is the solution.

Being enslaved in the mind is just as bad as being enslaved in the body.
First of all, that definition proved me right, considering the correct definition for this instance would be #3. If a minority were the smaller part, women would not be a minority. you and I know that's just silly.

Secondly...Everything you said I agree with. I don't think you understand my point at all. You should be yourself, you should be happy in that. I agree with that.

That was part of my point all along. What I said was, be yourself, people aren't going to like it. If you can't take it, too bad. Then, you should change. See what I mean? I don't mean to say, change so you fit in. Nope. Change if you can't deal with the shit.
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:01 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
And when it comes of Ghandi and MLK Jr, what was their messages they were trying to promote?

Would you not find them in the least bit hypocritical if they actually HATED or had those notions to discriminate against a goth?

Goth isn't a nation, goth isn't really a people. But it's still there.

No offense, but you almost sound like "People hate goths because they can and it's completly okay to do so."

Hate and discrimination is NOT okay.
Hate is definitely ok. Acting on it is not. You cannot help your feelings, but you can help your actions. Discrimination, also not ok, because that would be acting on hate.
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:03 PM   #57
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Also can you not just post several definitions of the word "minority?" I know very well what it means, and knowing all these new definitions isn't going to change my mind about anything, since that isn't what the point here is at all.
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:06 PM   #58
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So many banners snapping in the breeze. This is all the result of identity politics.

I have to agree with ophelia, though: society should be fair, but isn't. If you're afraid of being ridiculed, conform. If you aren't, don't. If you're too scared to go against the grain but desperately want to, that's your cross to bear. You'll either accept your limitation or work to overcome it.

To that end, just because one person has the inner strength to fly their banner right in the faces of mainstream society does not mean that another person will do likewise. It's a bit unfair for someone to patronize someone else for not living up to their own personal standard of individuality. Still, it does happen.
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:13 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PinstripesAndPithHelmets
So many banners snapping in the breeze. This is all the result of identity politics.

I have to agree with ophelia, though: society should be fair, but isn't. If you're afraid of being ridiculed, conform. If you aren't, don't. If you're too scared to go against the grain but desperately want to, that's your cross to bear. You'll either accept your limitation or work to overcome it.

To that end, just because one person has the inner strength to fly their banner right in the faces of mainstream society does not mean that another person will do likewise. It's a bit unfair for someone to patronize someone else for not living up to their own personal standard of individuality. Still, it does happen.
THANK YOU. Jesus, why did it take so long for someone to get it? I've been trying to say that through posts and posts and posts.
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:13 PM   #60
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Now the real question comes about. We are on the same page and seems that we have been for quite some time.

If, for example, my new job finds out that I'm a goth. What happens when I start getting discriminated or I'm held to standards that are not equal to the others in an attempt to get that "faggy goth dude" fired?

Though it's clearly discrimination, I can not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they would fire me because I'm a goth, but because maybe for another reason.

I highly doubt that this would happen. My new job is actually excited to have me work with them and they know full well I'm a goth.

Discrimination is discrimination but I don't know how you can have your own sense of self expression protected by law. I don't think it can be done.

There in lies the problem. It DOESN'T matter at all. But the principal of it does matter.
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:14 PM   #61
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3. a group differing, esp. in race, religion, or ethnic background, from the majority of a population:

Number three also underlines my own point -- it says a "GROUP" differing ...esp in RACE but NOT EXCLUDING any group outside of race. If we had fifty people in one room, 20 were black, 20 were white and 10 were Lebanese the Lebanese group with be the MINORITY. My point was to say that while YES, we are not a POLITICAL MINORITY we are, because of our small number -- a minority in the NUMERICAL DEFINITION, as defined not POLITICALLY but LITERALLY, get it?

Also, I concur with what you say in this regard -- people who can't deal with static should conform and try to grow individuality when they grow some balls...

It just appeared you were saying we should kowtow to the jerks of the world --

I finally get what you were saying and I agree...
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:16 PM   #62
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Yeah...so can this be done? I'm done at least.
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:19 PM   #63
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Sure thing -- lets join hands and skip or some crap....lol...
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Old 07-10-2007, 03:47 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haunted House
They could have ment a bad influence on how your room looks. C'mon, not everyone is a fan of black sheets and Bauhaus posters.

!!!... What??!!?! How could anyone not be a fan of black sheets and Bauhaus posters??

(Sorry I came into this one late but I had to comment)
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Old 07-10-2007, 03:48 PM   #65
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Black sheets -- nah --everything shows up on them...
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Old 07-10-2007, 03:52 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae
Black sheets -- nah --everything shows up on them...
This is true, plus when you wash them too often they start to turn gray and there is nothing worse than fading black sheets... except black sheets that have stuff on them...
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:23 PM   #67
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LOL...now I wonder if the more expensive sheets are more fade resistant -- I get mine mostly from Wal-Mart...
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:26 PM   #68
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maybe the black satin sheets? The only black ones I have had all faded within three washes
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:32 PM   #69
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black anything fades though -- jeans, socks, dresses -- maybe it's the dye...
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:53 PM   #70
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I guess it's not too bad, makes an excuse for black dying parties. My friends and I gather our faded blacks and dye them while getting smashed and listening to music.
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Old 07-12-2007, 07:22 AM   #71
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You know what's funny? I just bought a new lamp from Ikea. And now that I think about it, all my furniture is from there as well, from my bed to my coffeepot. (At least I think that's where I got it)

Now one of my mates is claiming I'm "aiding and abetting the enemy", but I think he's got two different sayings mixed up a bit. Oh well. Time for breakfast! On my Ikea table!
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:03 PM   #72
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Quote:
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Now one of my mates is claiming I'm "aiding and abetting the enemy", but I think he's got two different sayings mixed up a bit. Oh well. Time for breakfast! On my Ikea table!

Maybe he got 'aiding and abetting' & 'aiding the enemy' combined, but that doesn't detract from the fact that you're still being a bastard! Stop enjoying that ill begotten furniture this instant!
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:41 PM   #73
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yeah...what he said...lol

nah, I'm just messing ...

screw Ikea...not worth the headache hatin' on them...
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:03 PM   #74
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I really like Ikea. Heh. Ad and all.
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:19 PM   #75
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I actually think it was kinda funny -- we should be able to laugh at ourselves a little...
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