What Religion do you Follow???

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by honeythorn

I just don't see why it matters so long as people aren't pushing their religion in your face.

I can understand that , as an atheist if you have someone coming up to you going " believe..blahblahblah or burn/die blahblah " you would naturally want some actual form of proof of their deity to back up what they are bleating at you .

But what of those who do not do this? What about those people who quietly get on with their lives without bothering anyone? Why should they/we have to prove anything to people like you?

I believe in evolution, I believe it has and does happen .It's fucking obvious that it has and does happen.

I also believe in a form of deity. I don't think deity " created " the world/universe ect, I think it is just as much a part of it as nature. I believe it IS nature.

Do I give a shit if you believe the same as me or not? NO. I have no desire to to make you see the world my way, or to believe in any kind of deity/god.

You may think my beliefs are ridiculous, illogical, and have no basis in fact, but they are my beliefs, and they are personal to me, despite possibly being shared on a general basis by many others of similar thought ( in terms of paganism anyway).

They do not affect my day to day life in a way that prevents me from acting normally, I do not wave books on witchcraft at people and tell them they must try this. It isn't their business. It isn't their concern, or yours for that matter.

Why do you believe evolution which is as you eloquently put: "fucking obvious," but something else that is absolutely not-obvious, because it cannot be proven on any level. It's totally intangible to every sense, and to any sort of detection imaginable. What makes that so alluring, and evolution EQUALLY as alluring; whereas one you have conclusive, irrefutable evidence for, and the other, absolutely none.

this is not a matter of false dichotomy, but it sure might sound like it. How can you have these two beliefs? Unless you believe in evolution for the same reasons you believe in your imaginary friend.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by evilpoppy

To both of you ...

I wouldn't really describe myself as gnostic. I am just at the Radical Existentialist end of Christian thought and practice.

I put stuff here: http://www.future-shape-of-church.org/

Which ranges from dull sermons to more edgy stuff.

Thanks for the heads up. *looks into the site*

[honeythorn]

Because I cannot accept that there is nothing whatsoever after death. I simply cannot see reason with such an idea. I believe it because I can and I want to. If you offered me proof of deity right now? great, if not, who cares?

It isn't your problem.

Belief in a deity makes many people happy. Wether it is illogical or not, wether you have proof or not, people will believe what they like, and yes, many do terrible things in the name of religion, but they also do many great things. Yes, we can do these things without any religion at all, but many feel that they do not want to. And that is all there is to it.

I don't believe that we fly up into the sky and sit on a cloud with a harp, I do however believe that the main part of the energy contained within the body is released back to the earth. The earth has an electromagnetic field, and human beings ( like all living things ) also have magnetic fields. These can be measured and are proven to exist. I believe that for the most part we return to the source, as it were. Our remains ( if buried obv ) decay and provide life for other living things. And so on goes biology.

But what of that other little part? the part that makes us all so individually different? Identical twins have the same genes, yet they can have completely opposing personalities. There is evidence of a psychic connection of sorts between identical twins, and even unrelated people. We only use ten percent of our brains remember, we don't YET know what the rest is capable of doing or PERCIEVING. You don't have any evidence of deity YET. Perhaps the reason no evidence has been found is because we are not mentally capable of either finding it or comprehending it.

Scientists seem to condemn anything they cannot understand or prove with machines, formulea and chemicals. Why bother trying to prove deity? If you do not believe it exists then what obligation do you have to try and prove it? what's the point?

[Solumina]

Why dose the fact that some people have faith in something more than what they can see/smell/taste/feel always have to bring out the worst in those that don't?

[Godslayer Jillian]

It wouldn't bring the worst out of us if it weren't that society is based on those unbased beliefs.
I don't know about the others, but if society was ruled by atheists, I wouldn't mind people believing in a god. The bottom line is that at least society and its government wouldn't be subject to an arbitrary deity.
Byebye religious wars.
Bybye bombing abortion clinics.
Bybye nationalism.
Byebye creationism debates.
Byebye to publicly displayed religious-based discrimination (e.g. gay bashing)
Byebye Mithras.

This is why I don't believe when someone says "It isn't your problem."
Every person's belief comes into play with relevant decisions in the external world. Who the hell would accept gay marriage if it was against his beliefs?
It ultimately affects anyone.
Arguing that 'It isn't [our] problem' has the basic tone of 'it's just one piece of trash' for a statement.

[Solumina]

Then why direct anger at people who actually follow the "good will towards men" part of their religion? Also what about the people have faith but do not believe in a particular religion, why jump down their throats about how their belief in a higher power is stupid?

[Circle V]

Broadly speaking, religion is a bad thing-- even if a good number of believers are pacifistic, moral, and uninterested in evangelism. Only when countered by other drives (toward reason, agreeableness, etc) can it remain under control.

Think of it this way: a pharmaceutical company creates a new drug called Religex. For most people, Religex acts as a mild antidepressant. The most common side effect is a small dip in reasoning ability. However, in rare cases, Religex greatly amplifies patients' existing propensity toward aggression and irrationality, often causing violent outbursts. Individuals displaying these symptoms lower the resistance of other Religex users to the same side effects. Religex is highly addictive.

Obviously, Religex would be banned, despite being harmless or even beneficial to most users. It's similar with religion; it would be nearly impossible to do away with radical religious belief without also destroying moderate religion.

[Cyntrox]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Bybye nationalism.

What does nationalism have to do with religion? I doubt having an atheist leader would change that...

[Methadrine]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Bybye nationalism.

Not entirely true. There's a lot of nationalism that doesn't include anything religious and/or a deity. I do agree with the rest though, very good thoughts.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Circle V

Broadly speaking, religion is a bad thing-- even if a good number of believers are pacifistic, moral, and uninterested in evangelism. Only when countered by other drives (toward reason, agreeableness, etc) can it remain under control.

Think of it this way: a pharmaceutical company creates a new drug called Religex. For most people, Religex acts as a mild antidepressant. The most common side effect is a small dip in reasoning ability. However, in rare cases, Religex greatly amplifies patients' existing propensity toward aggression and irrationality, often causing violent outbursts. Individuals displaying these symptoms lower the resistance of other Religex users to the same side effects. Religex is highly addictive.

Obviously, Religex would be banned, despite being harmless or even beneficial to most users. It's similar with religion; it would be nearly impossible to do away with radical religious belief without also destroying moderate religion.

I understand the dislike of religion ( myself can't stand any form of organized religion). I just don't understand why people who don't believe feel the need to tell believers that they are stupid as are their beliefs

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Cyntrox

What does nationalism have to do with religion? I doubt having an atheist leader would change that...

Yeah just look back at Soviet nationalism

[Cyntrox]

Originally Posted by Methadrine

Not entirely true. There's a lot of nationalism that doesn't include anything religious and/or a deity. I do agree with the rest though, very good thoughts.

I beat you to it! Nyah nyah!

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by honeythorn

Because I cannot accept that there is nothing whatsoever after death. I simply cannot see reason with such an idea. I believe it because I can and I want to. If you offered me proof of deity right now? great, if not, who cares?

It isn't your problem.

Belief in a deity makes many people happy. Wether it is illogical or not, wether you have proof or not, people will believe what they like, and yes, many do terrible things in the name of religion, but they also do many great things. Yes, we can do these things without any religion at all, but many feel that they do not want to. And that is all there is to it.

I don't believe that we fly up into the sky and sit on a cloud with a harp, I do however believe that the main part of the energy contained within the body is released back to the earth. The earth has an electromagnetic field, and human beings ( like all living things ) also have magnetic fields. These can be measured and are proven to exist. I believe that for the most part we return to the source, as it were. Our remains ( if buried obv ) decay and provide life for other living things. And so on goes biology.

But what of that other little part? the part that makes us all so individually different? Identical twins have the same genes, yet they can have completely opposing personalities. There is evidence of a psychic connection of sorts between identical twins, and even unrelated people. We only use ten percent of our brains remember, we don't YET know what the rest is capable of doing or PERCIEVING. You don't have any evidence of deity YET. Perhaps the reason no evidence has been found is because we are not mentally capable of either finding it or comprehending it.

Scientists seem to condemn anything they cannot understand or prove with machines, formulea and chemicals. Why bother trying to prove deity? If you do not believe it exists then what obligation do you have to try and prove it? what's the point?

Here is a good reason for not believing there is anything else out there: you never knew anything about it. It seems like you don't understand biology, philosophy, or science at all. I am not continuing this conversation, because this is obviously vacuous.

[Methadrine]

Originally Posted by Cyntrox

I beat you to it! Nyah nyah!

Great minds think alike.

[Onetwothree]

Also, Honeythorn. Don't you understand why it's stupid? Just because you believe something doesn't make it true. Ever hear that before? Think about it. What you believe is most likely NOT true, so you are wasting your time pondering about your cosmic circle-jerk quasi-spiritual bullshit.

Yeah. You are.

[raggedyanne]

Onetwothree, YOU are wasting your time bothering a kindhearted person simply because she believes in something that you do not. You are in no way superior to the man who stands on his box, handing out bibles and yelling at passers by that they "must believe or parish." Your views may be opposite, but your methods are the same. Climb down off that box and let us have a rational discussion.

[Godslayer Jillian]

The reason I mentioned nationalism is because it is intrinsically entwined with beliefs for it to exist.
Stating some examples, we can see fundamentalists that believe that America and its president were appointed by God for the greater good of this world.
Nationalism exists when people in a state believe their state is better than others. This idea wouldn't be possible if people realize there's no reason to believe they have something others don't.
Nationalism is a product of zealotry, and what better way to end that than to eradicate the only half-justifiable form of zealotry?

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by raggedyanne

Onetwothree, YOU are wasting your time bothering a kindhearted person simply because she believes in something that you do not. You are in no way superior to the man who stands on his box, handing out bibles and yelling at passers by that they "must believe or parish." Your views may be opposite, but your methods are the same. Climb down off that box and let us have a rational discussion.

My views aren't opposite. It's pretty funny that you say I should climb off 'that box and let us have a rational discussion," when you obviously don't understand what rational thought is.

Let me enlighten you, child:

Rational:

1. Having or exercising the ability to reason.
2. Of sound mind; sane.
3. Consistent with or based on reason; logical: rational behavior. See Synonyms at logical.
4. Mathematics Capable of being expressed as a quotient of integers.

Logical:

1. Of, relating to, in accordance with, or of the nature of logic.
2. Based on earlier or otherwise known statements, events, or conditions; reasonable: Rain was a logical expectation, given the time of year.
3. Reasoning or capable of reasoning in a clear and consistent manner.


--

Do you know what your beliefs are called? Negative truths. They defy rational discussion, logical discussion, or anything based in reality. I am the only one TRYING to have a rational discussion here, and you are just a crazy little child.

[biohazard]

Originally Posted by Methadrine

Religion has also massively been used to have power, wealth and control since.. well, ever. Something not to be forgotten. It's only in modern times that it has lost its "grip".

That has been true, and is still true in some religions today. So, would you say it is better to not follow a religion than to follow one? Or are there any exceptions to the rule?

[raggedyanne]

I think that if religion keeps you sane, follow it. It shouldn't take over your life, but it should be like a safety net of sorts. Of course, if you despise religion in all forms, disregard my post.

[Circle V]

Disclaimers are disallowed!

If sanity is at stake, do what it takes to avoid madness. Otherwise, choosing to believe in something that sounds good despite being conscious that it has a good chance of being false is dishonest and cowardly.

[Drake Dun]

Hah! I am back online and coming to you live from sunny California via dialup (!) until I get back to Tokyo.

This keyboard reminds me of those old typewriters that were supposedly for typing documents, but actually worked better for building your fingers up bigger than Arnold's thighs. It's a hard life.

[raggedyanne]

Where in California? Beware the central valley, you can get hung for witchcraft out there. Though stockton is pretty cool.

[magickaykay]

Im individual christian,and I was basically raise that way all my life,and when I was growing up I never new there were soo many different religions.My mother was trying to protect me from other religions,but now that im in high school,Ive read about alot of different religions that make alot of sense to me.Now my Beliefs come from alot of different type of christianity and some other faiths.

[Circle V]

The moral lessons make sense, or the stories make sense?

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That makes sense."

Or

"God made the world in a week. That makes sense."

The validity or relevance of the moral lessons in a book don't make the rest of the book true. If, say, The Lord of the Rings ended with the sentence "By the way, this really happened," I wouldn't believe it-- despite the arguably useful moral lessons found inside.

(Don't trip over the word "book." Substitute "dogma" or any other word that fits)