Where do we put the line between perversion and sex? - Page 2

Maimy · 03-09-2004, 12:12 PM

Consent is the bottom line in this. What you want, neophyte, pales and gasps for weak breath in comparison to some of the things I have known people to desire in a sexual context. It's extreme, to be sure, but it's clearly defined and comes with the caveat of mutuality. So it's fair game.

I knew a woman once who was a radical sub, the slave of her master. Not just in the bedroom, but contracturally and throughout her every moment. For her, nothing less than absolute domination was enough - there was no such thing as a safe word, no such thing as playing - her entire life was at the mercy of her master, who happens also to be her husband. And she was an acquaintance of mine at a feminist website.

The essence of freedom of choice is the freedom to choose ANYTHING. Anything.

I respected this woman's right to fulfil this need in herself. Mind you, it's not easy to know someone like this and accept their "decision" to utterly reject autonomy. Some of the things she found sexual, I still cannot forget to this day:

She had had her labia stapled to her inner thigh with a staple gun and cigarette burns applied between. (She claimed to have superior healing abilities, and said that sterilizing the staples/gun was not necessary - *shudder*.)

She had been anally violated with a lit cigar, and then urintated in.

She wanted desperately for her master to drug her and strip her and hog tie her in a cheap motel, leaving the door and window open for anyone to come in and use her (for obvious health reasons, this remained a "fantasy", but it was a vividly real desire for her).

blkcrystal · 03-20-2004, 10:01 PM

to me i believe that people have the right to do want they want to do with their life. if the want to get married to the same sex then go ahead as long as i dont do that. to me, that kinda disgusting but really its not my place to tell them that they cant do that so really it doesnt matter now does it?

SuicideJade · 04-28-2004, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maimy

Consent is the bottom line in this. What you want, neophyte, pales and gasps for weak breath in comparison to some of the things I have known people to desire in a sexual context. It's extreme, to be sure, but it's clearly defined and comes with the caveat of mutuality. So it's fair game.

I knew a woman once who was a radical sub, the slave of her master. Not just in the bedroom, but contracturally and throughout her every moment. For her, nothing less than absolute domination was enough - there was no such thing as a safe word, no such thing as playing - her entire life was at the mercy of her master, who happens also to be her husband. And she was an acquaintance of mine at a feminist website.

The essence of freedom of choice is the freedom to choose ANYTHING. Anything.

I respected this woman's right to fulfil this need in herself. Mind you, it's not easy to know someone like this and accept their "decision" to utterly reject autonomy. Some of the things she found sexual, I still cannot forget to this day:

She had had her labia stapled to her inner thigh with a staple gun and cigarette burns applied between. (She claimed to have superior healing abilities, and said that sterilizing the staples/gun was not necessary - *shudder*.)

She had been anally violated with a lit cigar, and then urintated in.

She wanted desperately for her master to drug her and strip her and hog tie her in a cheap motel, leaving the door and window open for anyone to come in and use her (for obvious health reasons, this remained a "fantasy", but it was a vividly real desire for her).

oh holy fucking horseshit !!!!
>_<
thank you maimy.. i will now have nightmares for weeks... :?

now to the on topicness..
i'm not a prude, but if there's a law against it, or it could be harmful to your health.. then i say it could be perverse..

Maimy · 04-28-2004, 06:30 AM

It was very difficult for me to accept this woman's choices. But, in the end, I had to make a conscious decision to remember that my context is not the only valid one. I believe her to be intensely fucked up, to be sure. She showed in some other ways that she was. But that did not and does not affect my adopted outlook on the matter - that consent itself can extend a partner's rights "in the bedroom".

tekno_suicide · 04-28-2004, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secretboy

wight supremicist...I like that.

"Barrows uber alles!"

:twisted:

MrMaelstrom · 04-28-2004, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuicideJade

i'm not a prude, but if there's a law against it, or it could be harmful to your health.. then i say it could be perverse..

So you're going to trust someone else (law) to decide what's perverse or not? Am I the only one horrified by the concept?

Think US southern states laws about sodomy. Think muslim sharia law. Think about the poor bitch about to die (stoned to death) in Nigeria....

*sighs*

tekno_suicide · 04-28-2004, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moon_Creature

You know that quote, "Erotic is when you use a feather, perverted is when you use the whole chicken". I think that applies here.

touche'

RetroGoth_queen · 04-28-2004, 07:07 AM

where do I put the line???

----------------------------------------------------------------------->

...
over there

Agwani · 04-29-2004, 12:25 AM

To use a couple well recited phrases:

Make sure it's Safe, Sane, and Consensual...

...and not with a five-year old.

Personally, I don't care if any one wants to fuck my corpse, so long as they didn't orchestrate my death to get their greasy hands on my corpse...

And I know I'm a pervert. The dictionary tells me so.

One question tho': what does the poll have to do with the question?

SuicideJade · 04-29-2004, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuicideJade

i'm not a prude, but if there's a law against it, or it could be harmful to your health.. then i say it could be perverse..

So you're going to trust someone else (law) to decide what's perverse or not? Am I the only one horrified by the concept?

Think US southern states laws about sodomy. Think muslim sharia law. Think about the poor bitch about to die (stoned to death) in Nigeria....

*sighs*

the operative phrase in my sentence was that it COULD be perverse ...
i'm not an expert on law and yes i know that there are some very ignorant laws regarding sex.. but there are some things that have been outlawed that need to stay that way in my opinion .. pedophillia, beastiality, incest, ****, ..
those things are perverse..
sodomy.. i'll agree that law needs to go.. it's ridiculous..
i don't listen to everything the government tells me.. i'm smart enough to know that...

HerGhostInTheFog · 07-15-2004, 12:18 AM

i'm bisexual, proud of it, and i think that people should marry anyone they want... yup, i should be able to marry a goat.... what hot kids we would have... yum yum :idea:

Maimy · 10-19-2004, 06:32 PM

*Bumpity-bump-up*

I had a perverse desire to talk about anything but politics.

So, naturally, sex came to mind. I haven't had it in two and a half months (not that I'd be counting), and would like to reminisce about how much I liked it.

What memories or senses strike you the hardest when you think about sex?

Scent, for me, is incredible. I love to smell my fingers or my toy after masturbating - but it is not quite exactly right, that scent. It's missing the ineffable magic of kog3100 - the combination-scent of a *genuine fucking*.

There are so many levels and fragrances connected with every stage and need for sex, too. The simple smell of his clean jawline, his hair. The rather more complex things my lusty nose encounters in more secret locations ...

Of course. I am aware that scent is 'obvious', here. So take this anywhere you like. Does it snare you like a trapped fox when you remember any particular act/sensation/word/moment ... ?

Disfunction · 10-19-2004, 06:46 PM

Well sex... Had it once in good ol' August of '04... Twas nice, got busted. Sad. Quite sad...

In any case, I suppose that the line between perversion and sex really lies in what people are willing to tolerate. Sin is geographical, and for that, people are willing to weather different things, however, if cruelty is not being inacted, and sexually activity it not being forced on someone, or something that may not have an appropriate voice, then I believe it's okay. ie, necrophilia, beastiality, pedophilia, etc.

Agwani · 10-19-2004, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maimy

I had a perverse desire to talk about anything but politics.

So, naturally, sex came to mind.

Ah, darlin' I like you more and more with every post...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maimy

What memories or senses strike you the hardest when you think about sex?

Scent... yes that's a good one. But for me, always, is sound.

Just remembering what sex sounds like (with one person in particular) makes my knees buckle.

Or, it could just be that I haven't had it in a while either.

*sob*

Agwani · 10-19-2004, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerGhostInTheFog

[...] and i think that people should marry anyone they want... yup, i should be able to marry a goat. [...]

To completely steal some comedian's line:

If you can find the goat who can say "I do" then I think you should be able to marry it.

Disfunction · 10-19-2004, 07:12 PM

"Show me potato salad!" - post-apocalyptic Family Guy

Where does it fit? I want to marry a bowl of potato salad!

In a moderately related statement, someone actually tried to marry their playstation 2, but when they couldn't, merely changed their last name...

Who knew that you could spell pathetic p-s-2

Zeade · 10-19-2004, 08:05 PM

hm... it's strange how things can be considered peverse... (you could say anything is peverse b/c "bad" words are peverse) but to outlaw such things would be wrong... b/c what is perverted in one person's eyes could be totally natural in another's eyes... yes, **** is peverse, but that's a totally different topic, ya know

TeapotScar · 10-19-2004, 09:29 PM

This is an interesting topic. I'm currently in a dance that relates to the subject of the line between sex and pornography, between violation and display, objectification and sexuality. It's a tough topic, and I think the answer is personal. In other words, one big group discussion is not going to find an answer to this problem. However, it will spawn awareness of different justifications for different points of view, so I'll indulge. :twisted:

Flirting is not perverse. Dirty talk is not perverse. Bondage is *definitely* not perverse. Consentual sex is not perverse. Doggy style = not perverse. :shock:

I just typed a list of things that are perverse, and I erased it. I don't want to talk about the deep, dark, obvious things that are perverse, because, well, they'd make you puke.

Some perversions that are personally perverse, to me, that will *not* make you puke, I will discuss.

The impersonal way in which doctors take your blood. Blood makes me live, it goes through ever single little invisible millimeter of my body... places I don't even know, and they take it without even acknowledging its beauty, its extreme value to me.

Perverse is when that guy at the train station walked up to me, looked down my shirt and said "I love you." Those are the most PG, minor, pedestrian forms of perversion I can think of.

On a different level, there's the perversion in a movement that causes you to use force to get somebody's touch away from you.

Perverse is being able to have sex without love.

Perverse is being able to cheat on someone you care about.

Perverse is betrayal of trust.

Those are my definitions...

I'm a perv... :?

skoteinh · 10-20-2004, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TStone

What comes to mind, you ask?

A pure moment of peace, of bringing someone there with me and sharing the moment of pseudo death and the blinding white light of rebirth, and the sadness that follows.

The sounds of quickening breath, gasps, moans, and cries of ecstasy through clenched teeth and pressed lips.

Skin moist with anticipation, skin prickled in goose bumps from hot breath and the whisper of lips, skin tuned up in sensitivity, taunt with need, flushed with desire.

Eyes wide open that look at you, pleading. “Fuck me goddamnit, just fuck me already!”

Prolonged agonistic rapture of light teases as the hint of release draws near, of slow glorious build, and suddenly finding myself standing before the mega tsunami as a fragile, insignificant thing…daring it to consume me, and fearful of it all.

…

Oh, and lots of slapping. A goddamn slap fest of slapping.

…

Maybe a bologna sandwich after.

Then some spooning.

To borrow from another respected and much admired peer.

…

Rinse and repeat.

TS... you just made me.... hmmm... how do I say this?
well, you "upset me"... esp. the slapping part...

does that make me perverse?

I mean, I don't even know you!

:oops:

back to the topic:

I agree with most of you about paedophilia, bestiality, necrophilia and the necessity of consent.

I don't know about voyerism... I believe it's OK as long as they do not take pics and put them on the net.

Deadhymn · 10-20-2004, 07:30 AM

if it feels good...just do it.

sex is a sport if you do it right....hope i didnt defame nike by using their tagline...

WolfMoon · 10-20-2004, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoteinh

Quote:

Originally Posted by TStone

What comes to mind, you ask?

A pure moment of peace, of bringing someone there with me and sharing the moment of pseudo death and the blinding white light of rebirth, and the sadness that follows.

The sounds of quickening breath, gasps, moans, and cries of ecstasy through clenched teeth and pressed lips.

Skin moist with anticipation, skin prickled in goose bumps from hot breath and the whisper of lips, skin tuned up in sensitivity, taunt with need, flushed with desire.

Eyes wide open that look at you, pleading. “Fuck me goddamnit, just fuck me already!”

Prolonged agonistic rapture of light teases as the hint of release draws near, of slow glorious build, and suddenly finding myself standing before the mega tsunami as a fragile, insignificant thing…daring it to consume me, and fearful of it all.

…

Oh, and lots of slapping. A goddamn slap fest of slapping.

…

Maybe a bologna sandwich after.

Then some spooning.

To borrow from another respected and much admired peer.

…

Rinse and repeat.

TS... you just made me.... hmmm... how do I say this?
well, you "upset me"... esp. the slapping part...

does that make me perverse?

I mean, I don't even know you!

:oops:

back to the topic:

I agree with most of you about paedophilia, bestiality, necrophilia and the necessity of consent.

I don't know about voyerism... I believe it's OK as long as they do not take pics and put them on the net.

T wasn't talkin about that kind of slapping,babe.Normally when he's saying slapping in relation to sex he means either masturbation or the passionate union of two bodies.

Maimy,sorry 'bout the lack babe.

I'm about to brag cuz I've been getting it more than ever lately!Thankfully I haven't been as nauseus(sp?) with this pregnancy as the last one.Yes preggos have sex!Is that perverse to some of you?

Anyway,I thought you weren't into vibes,Maimselle?It's good to invest in one that's not a cheapo like mine!Did you know it's against the law to sell a dildo or a vibrator shaped like one in my county?That's why I had to get a nasty cheapo,well I didn't have but I believe that every woman should have a good dependable one.

What do you think is a perverse length for a strap-on.

Thast's on my gotta-get-list after this pregnancy!

Yes,I plan ahead.You have to.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Maimy · 10-20-2004, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TStone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maimy

*Bumpity-bump-up*

I had a perverse desire to talk about anything but politics ...

Yes. On polotics, I agree. Been avoiding that one like a double wide grave, if I may be so bold to borrow a line from you, Maimy?

No problemo, T ... though I confess, it's usually coming from me as "dig ya like a double-wide grave", I'm not sure what it means here. Other than you'd avoid a double-wide one twice as much as a standard?

*Grin*

***

Wolfie, um ... Wouldja buy - "Any port in a storm"?

Planning ahead: Hee.

***

Since kog3100 has been gone, I find myself dreaming of him fairly frequently. For a lot of you, this might be a great big "Duh!", but the fact is I have *NEVER* dreamed about my lovers - even my crushes - much, sexually or otherwise. To do so several times a week? Blissful, painful, absolutely unprecedented. And I dream such specifics. The time he finger-fucked me in a car in a parking lot in the middle of the afternoon, when we lived 150 miles apart and could not spend the night, so had no private time to ourselves. The look on his face the first time I showed him ... a neat thing I did just for him. *Ahem* The way his hand felt on my left breast, driving through August in a hurry to move his life out of his last home ...

So vivid, so searing, every moment of that man. We've been through deaths and other losses, job changes and geographical vagaries ... and several near-death-experiences for the relationship itself. We have reached a place of strange assurance - just when nothing can be assured, because we are 4000 miles bereft.

So my answer to my own question changes every day.

Last night, looking at a photo I took of his smile, in bed, the day he had to leave ... it just made me cry. I am so blessed, yet my greed makes me sorrow to miss that man so much. Like we are losing such precious time ...

Agh.

But today ... his laugh.

Always, his laugh.

I never saw anything sexier.

(Except for his naked cock ...)

Maimy · 10-20-2004, 07:21 PM

T: Hee.

(Teehee.)

*Gigglesnort*

ohthefuckwell · 10-20-2004, 11:47 PM

*sigh* t......

only you would slap to the tune of "colonel bogey march".

heh.

skoteinh · 10-21-2004, 06:57 AM

Wolfmoon, TS: thank you for clearing that up for me!

I feel stupid now :oops:

I enjoy some spanking and slapping (on the receiving end), that's why I got carried away...