Pro-Obama Thugs...

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by viscus

So you prefer insurance company accountants, whose job it is to find a way to fuck you over in order to protect the company's shareholders?

The situation is this: 47 million Americans have no health coverage, and several are being denied or priced out of what they thought was good insurance due to them coming down with a debilitating illness or injury. The health care industry itself swallows up 1/6th of the GDP, with administrative costs accounting for 25% of what you pay when you go to the hospital and the most exorbitant prescription drug prices in the world.

The cost of nothing nothing here is definitely not zero.

How is the Federal Government going to pay for all the needed Health care coverage when we are faced with a recession going further toward a depression.

It's not the system it's self,what I'm talking about is Rationed care because of cost of the Medication.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Take a moment to listen to yourself. First you fucking say we can't spend that much money when "we are faced with a recession going further toward a depression", but then you fucking complain about the government because you think medicine will have to be rationed?

[Deadmanwalking_05]

The Cost of the Health care that each and every individual needs will vary right?

That leads to somebody basically saying who is worth it and who isn't,in other words Rationed Health care.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Kind of like how it's always been that way, huh? I guess it's always been Raioned Health care.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

But not as bad as it could be if the Health care plan goes through.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Here is another bit I found watch the bias from the talking heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxI3n...eature=popular

All the guy was doing was standing on privately held land open carrying a handgun gun,all he is doing is standing with other protesters and holding his sign,but check out the fear mongering.


Here is the guy with chris Mathews.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XflE0...eature=related

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

Here is another bit I found watch the bias from the talking heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxI3n...eature=popular

All the guy was doing was standing on privately held land open carrying a handgun,all he is doing is standing with other protesters and holding his sign,but check out the fear mongering.


Here is the guy with chris Mathews.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XflE0...eature=related

Needed to fix that.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

The Cost of the Health care that each and every individual needs will vary right?

That leads to somebody basically saying who is worth it and who isn't,in other words Rationed Health care.

How is that different than the current system in America? If I pay the same amount as you do, we work for the same company with the same health plan, you get cancer and I never even get a cold, how exactly is it different if the government runs the plan versus a private company?

Same goes for home insurance. If I live in a house in N. Dakota versus a house in New Orleans, guess which of us is more likely to file a claim?

If the government is running things the insurance will not be based on the bottom line, like it is now, where the companies can DENY your claim or CANCEL your policy to save themselves money.

I say this because every other country in the world has socialised healthcare and none of the doomsday scenarios that the right-wing are currently trying to sell the public there have ever happened in the real world.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

You need to think about the fact that the economy in the U.S. won't be able to handle the strain of the costs.

[KontanKarite]

I want to projectile vomit...

[viscus]

Originally Posted by viscus

The cost of nothing nothing here is definitely not zero.

The cost of doing nothing. What an embarrassing typo.

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

You need to think about the fact that the economy in the U.S. won't be able to handle the strain of the costs.

Bullshit. A government system would have enough collective bargaining power with hospitals and pharmaceutical companies to bring costs down.

[Delkaetre]

- money coming from individual taxation
- money coming from companies paying toward their employees' insurance
- possible cheaper access to drugs due to the amount of federal money that's spent on attempting to find new, useful drugs.
- collective bargaining as mentioned above.

The government isn't going to magically summon a Nazi Deathcamp disguised as a series of hospitals full of accountants instead of nurses. The government is going to use money from a wide variety of sources to offer decent, basic healthcare to everyone that needs, without denying you the right to choose private healthcare instead. In the UK, most of us are happy to use the NHS. But if we prefer to have slightly nicer surroundings and slightly shorter waits, we can sign up to BUPA or similar for health insurance. It costs quite a lot more, but the option is there if we decide we want it.

Most of the complaints levelled against the NHS were actually introduced by a conservative government that was trying to encourage wholesale privatisation by making the NHS less pleasant to use (eg, adding layers of extra management, privatising the cleaning services). If your Republicans don't decide to actively sabotage the system by deliberately inserting paperwork and beaurocracy where there is no need for it, then your healthcare system will be good. It will look after everyone, even if they've fallen on hard times.

There will be no death panel. There will be no judgement of whether someone is worth saving according to their age or productivity. There will be no eugenics. There will be none of this stuff you fear, because the stuff you fear has ALL already been shown to be lies created and propogated by private insurance companies and the political party they're paying.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

You need to think about the fact that the economy in the U.S. won't be able to handle the strain of the costs.

What viscus said.

“As in previous years, it comes back to the fact that we are paying much higher prices for health care goods and services in the United States. Paying more is okay if our outcomes were better than other countries. But we are paying more for comparable outcomes,” said Anderson, who is also the director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Hospital Finance and Management.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0712140821.htm

Prominent among these other factors [leading to higher health care costs] are:

1. higher prices for the same health care goods and services than are paid in other countries for the same goods and services;

2. significantly higher administrative overhead costs than are incurred in other countries with simpler health-insurance systems

.....


There are three other explanations that are widely — but erroneously — thought among non-experts to be cost drivers in the American health spending. To wit:

1. that the aging of our population drives health spending

2. that we get better quality from our health system than do other nations, and

3. that we get better health outcomes from our system

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...o-much-part-i/

The US doesn't have better health care than other countries, and it costs more.

Even if there was absolutely no way that the US government could afford a national health care system, surely you would prefer paying extra tax to support it, considering that with the health care in place you would no longer have to pay for insurance. Overall it would cost you less, and provide more people with cover. What reason is there to believe that health care would be rationed when paid for by a goverment, over being paid for by companies out to make profit?

[Raptor]

And just to show how much more expensive it is:




From http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/80...cale]=relative
Using data from http://www.pmprb-cepmb.gc.ca/CMFiles...42006-1490.pdf

[Saya]

And not only are Americans not going to the doctor because they can't afford it, but the wait times are worse than all other countries except for Canada:

There is no systemized collection of data on wait times in the U.S. That makes it difficult to draw comparisons with countries that have national health systems, where wait times are not only tracked but made public. However, a 2005 survey by the Commonwealth Fund of sick adults in six nations found that only 47% of U.S. patients could get a same- or next-day appointment for a medical problem, worse than every other country except Canada.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...8/b4042072.htm

And that was back in 2005, since then our government announced a plan that by 2010 we will have guaranteed wait times for certain procedures. Far cry from what the Conservatives promised, but that just goes to show too that even our right wing knows good quality universal health care is important.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/08/...2271250281707/


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Obama Joker poster suspect interviewed

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Published: Aug. 14, 2009 at 4:28 PM
Order reprints
CLERMONT, Fla., Aug. 14 (UPI) -- Police in Florida said they have interviewed a man suspected of putting up 500 posters depicting President Barack Obama as the Joker from "The Dark Knight."

Clermont police and city officials said the male suspect admitted putting up 500 posters of the president as the Batman villain but investigators believe more people were involved and the probe was ongoing, the Orlando Sentinel reported Friday.

Clermont Police Capt. Eric Jensen said no arrests had been made in the case, which authorities said could result in charges stemming from a city ordinance regulating sign postings and charges of defacing federal property after two posters were placed on a Post Office collection box.

"We have talked to an individual," Jensen said. "He only admitted to some of it ... . We're still tracking down leads and talking to folks. We have not arrested anybody.

"Currently we are still conducting interviews of victims, witnesses and other suspects who were placing the Obama Joker poster throughout our city. We believe that the postings are the result of multiple suspects. We are hopeful that we can develop enough information to present charges of vandalism to the State Attorney's Office for review."

[Raptor]

No more arguing against the health plans?

None of this suggests that some kind of conspiracy in which preparations to lock down the US with a army of youth brigades is afoot.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Just wait everybody this will go down in the U.S. if we don't try and stop it while we can.

[viscus]

Fuck that, bring on the civil war. I'm dying for a chance to wave around my gun collection and shoot somebody in the face.

[ShadowxMakerZ]

Originally Posted by viscus

Fuck that, bring on the civil war. I'm dying for a chance to wave around my gun collection and shoot somebody in the face.

You are f*cking awesome.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by viscus

Fuck that, bring on the civil war. I'm dying for a chance to wave around my gun collection and shoot somebody in the face.

I know you're making fun of me,but really that is the type of thing I don't want to happen.

As much as I talk about it,I really don't want that to go down,it is the Last resort to Open aggression.

I've been trying to grab your attention so you'll start looking into things,call me crazy and make fun of me all you want to,it's your choice.

I'll continue to post what I can when I can,look into it yourself,or use that energy to make fun.

Just remember when this does start going down,someone tried to warn you.

[Terminus]

Good socialized health care is cheaper than what the American system has now.

Case in point: Canada spends 10% of it's GDP to achieve virtually the same, and sometimes better, quality of health care that the United States spends 15% on.

So using that figure, it would seem that socialized health care would actually help, not harm the economy. But what do I know, Keynesian economics haven't worked before, right?

[ShadowxMakerZ]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

I know you're making fun of me,but really that is the type of thing I don't want to happen.

As much as I talk about it,I really don't want that to go down,it is the Last resort to Open aggression.

I've been trying to grab your attention so you'll start looking into things,call me crazy and make fun of me all you want to,it's your choice.

I'll continue to post what I can when I can,look into it yourself,or use that energy to make fun.

Just remember when this does start going down,someone tried to warn you.

Has it ever been considered that in reality it's Us vs the Government?
While the president is just the marionette as they pull the strings in secrecy.

[ubergoth666]

I can get behind what your saying Deadman. My brother has had kidney problems since he was a little kid. Other than that he's totally healthy. Under Obamas reforms I doubt he could get treatment when his condition makes the more advanced treatments like a transplant necessary.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by ubergoth666

I can get behind what your saying Deadman. My brother has had kidney problems since he was a little kid. Other than that he's totally healthy. Under Obamas reforms I doubt he could get treatment when his condition makes the more advanced treatments like a transplant necessary.

Because no one in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Canada, England, Denmark, Australia, and Germany have ever gotten a kidney transplant, right?