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Old 05-15-2012, 11:06 AM   #1
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Anger Management

Post things that make you angry beyond the rant thread.
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:08 AM   #2
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ISN1RCxko2Q
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:13 PM   #3
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This, basically.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:29 PM   #4
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looks like Foxnews trolled the fuck out of you: There is no New Black Panther Party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackpanther.org
In response from numerous requests from individual's seeking information on the "New Black Panthers," the Dr. Huey P. Newton Foundation issues this public statement to correct the distorted record being made in the media by a small band of African Americans calling themselves the New Black Panthers. As guardian of the true history of the Black Panther Party, the Foundation, which includes former leading members of the Party, denounces this group's exploitation of the Party's name and history. Failing to find its own legitimacy in the black community, this band would graft the Party's name upon itself, which we condemn.

Firstly, the people in the New Black Panthers were never members of the Black Panther Party and have no legitimate claim on the Party's name. On the contrary, they would steal the names and pretend to walk in the footsteps of the Party's true heroes, such as Black Panther founder Huey P. Newton, George Jackson and Jonathan Jackson, Bunchy Carter, John Huggins, Fred Hampton, Mark Cark, and so many others who gave their very lives to the black liberation struggle under the Party's banner.

Secondly, they denigrate the Party's name by promoting concepts absolutely counter to the revolutionary principles on which the Party was founded. Their alleged media assault on the Ku Klux Klan serves to incite hatred rather than resolve it. The Party's fundamental principle, as best articulated by the great revolutionary Ernesto "Che" Guevara, was: "A true revolutionary is guided by great feelings of love." The Black Panthers were never a group of angry young militants full of fury toward the "white establishment." The Party operated on love for black people, not hatred of white people...
Literally the network's only interest here is to engage in race-baiting by bringing a hate group in to be the voice of the black community.

Man, I hate Foxnews.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:50 PM   #5
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People who confuse numbers with letters and try to type out words using mainly numbers.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:57 PM   #6
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Honestly? What angered me is the guy was trying to say that the man had reasons to be angry, to say something like that, and that people should ask what could make someone so bitter, but that message was completely ignored.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZCDY...eature=related\

In reference to the belief that the US government created aids:

"The reason why - How would you feel, Glenn, if you had to understand that your ancestors lived in slavery and bondage for 300 years, that your ancestors had been denied the right to become policeman, fireman, attend schools, given mortgages and face-"

"I-I-I tell you, I f-"

"How would you feel if you felt what we have been through?"

"I would feel so unbelievably proud that that country has made so much progress that the richest woman in America is Oprah Winfrey, that possibly the next president is an African-American, I would feel pretty darn good that we've made an awful lot of progress."

This was on national television.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:01 PM   #7
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It goes without saying that those that work with and for Fox News should be gut stomped.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:04 PM   #8
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Honestly? What angered me is the guy was trying to say that the man had reasons to be angry, to say something like that, and that people should ask what could make someone so bitter, but that message was completely ignored.
I was going to say this.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:09 PM   #9
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0wuvFdpDw0

Human Life > your xbox? How noble of you.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:25 PM   #10
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Honestly? What angered me is the guy was trying to say that the man had reasons to be angry, to say something like that, and that people should ask what could make someone so bitter, but that message was completely ignored.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZCDY...eature=related\

In reference to the belief that the US government created aids:

"The reason why - How would you feel, Glenn, if you had to understand that your ancestors lived in slavery and bondage for 300 years, that your ancestors had been denied the right to become policeman, fireman, attend schools, given mortgages and face-"

"I-I-I tell you, I f-"

"How would you feel if you felt what we have been through?"

"I would feel so unbelievably proud that that country has made so much progress that the richest woman in America is Oprah Winfrey, that possibly the next president is an African-American, I would feel pretty darn good that we've made an awful lot of progress."

This was on national television.
Yeah I get you. My point is that pissing you off was intentional.

The guy they brought on even caught onto their game a little: He said right up front that they had reached back to 2005 for this "Story".

Stroking racial hatred is nothing new, it's something that's been done by the ruling class for centuries specifically in order to keep the proletariat divided. America was practically founded on it:

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defc...colorline.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Zinn
...There is not a country in world history in which racism has been more important, for so long a time, as the United States. And the problem of "the color line," as W. E. B. Du Bois put it, is still with us. So it is more than a purely historical question to ask: How does it start?—and an even more urgent question: How might it end? Or, to put it differently: Is it possible for whites and blacks to live together without hatred?

If history can help answer these questions, then the beginnings of slavery in North America—a continent where we can trace the coming of the first whites and the first blacks—might supply at least a few clues.

Some historians think those first blacks in Virginia were considered as servants, like the white indentured servants brought from Europe. But the strong probability is that, even if they were listed as "servants" (a more familiar category to the English), they were viewed as being different from white servants, were treated differently, and in fact were slaves. In any case, slavery developed quickly into a regular institution, into the normal labor relation of blacks to whites in the New World. With it developed that special racial feeling—whether hatred, or contempt, or pity, or patronization—that accompanied the inferior position of blacks in America for the next 350 years —that combination of inferior status and derogatory thought we call racism.
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...Only one fear was greater than the fear of black rebellion in the new American colonies. That was the fear that discontented whites would join black slaves to overthrow the existing order. In the early years of slavery, especially, before racism as a way of thinking was firmly ingrained, while white indentured servants were often treated as badly as black slaves, there was a possibility of cooperation...
Foxnew's plan was most likely to enflame racial hatred as a means of scaring whites away from voting for Obama. As such they went back in the records, found a professor saying something which sounded extremely controversial and divisive, and then invited a known hate-group to comment on it.

The guy is right to try to frame the debate as "Well he had a reason to be mad" but the point is that regardless of what he says, foxnew's intention was not to understand this position or even comment on it, their intent was just to piss people off. They manufactured the story and the conversation specifically to do so, so that the GOP and the McCain campaign could take political advantage of it.

Trololo.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:51 PM   #11
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Yes. Because racism in North America started in North America. -_-;
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:56 PM   #12
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Yes. Because racism in North America started in North America. -_-;
It's from "A People's History of the United States" So of course it's going to use North America, specifically Virginia as it's historical frame.

The point is not that Racism didn't exist before this-that's absurd. The point is that the ruling class specifically used racism as a means to control their source of labor.
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:16 PM   #13
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I understand your point, but drawing evidence from that guy didn't help me to. You didn't say that racism started in North America, but the man you quoted did. In fact, he specifically uses backward thinking. "From slavery came racism." What the fuck?

Quote:
Some historians think those first blacks in Virginia were considered as servants, like the white indentured servants brought from Europe. But the strong probability is that, even if they were listed as "servants" (a more familiar category to the English), they were viewed as being different from white servants, were treated differently, and in fact were slaves. In any case, slavery developed quickly into a regular institution, into the normal labor relation of blacks to whites in the New World. With it developed that special racial feeling—whether hatred, or contempt, or pity, or patronization—that accompanied the inferior position of blacks in America for the next 350 years —that combination of inferior status and derogatory thought we call racism.
Quote:
...Only one fear was greater than the fear of black rebellion in the new American colonies. That was the fear that discontented whites would join black slaves to overthrow the existing order. In the early years of slavery, especially, before racism as a way of thinking was firmly ingrained, while white indentured servants were often treated as badly as black slaves, there was a possibility of cooperation...
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:08 PM   #14
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You should read the whole chapter, not just the excerpts I pulled to make my point. (Or hell, read the whole book, it's REALLY good and incredibly informative.)

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I understand your point, but drawing evidence from that guy didn't help me to. You didn't say that racism started in North America, but the man you quoted did. In fact, he specifically uses backward thinking. "From slavery came racism." What the fuck?
No he didn't, though I can see why you took it that way. Read a little closer:
Quote:
Some historians think those first blacks in Virginia were considered as servants, like the white indentured servants brought from Europe. But the strong probability is that, even if they were listed as "servants" (a more familiar category to the English), they were viewed as being different from white servants, were treated differently, and in fact were slaves. In any case, slavery developed quickly into a regular institution, into the normal labor relation of blacks to whites in the New World. With it developed that special racial feeling—whether hatred, or contempt, or pity, or patronization—that accompanied the inferior position of blacks in America for the next 350 years —that combination of inferior status and derogatory thought we call racism.
Right there is proof that he acknowledges that racism came before slavery: black servants were treated differently from white servants.

What he's talking about (and why you got confused) is that racism in America, as we understand it today, is strongly influenced by slavery, specifically the American brand of slavery.

Slavery, as an institution lead to racism as an institution rather than as a behavior. Privilege and oppression was dealt out among the whites, blacks, and natives along racial lines with the specific intention of creating and maintaining various underclasses of laborers so that they would be incapable and/or unwilling to unite against their oppressors. It's a big part as to why today Americans are more race-conscious than they are class-conscious (compared to other countries.)

While racial divides and racism are to a certain degree inherent in humans, Zinn's point is that the historical record holds that white european attitudes towards Africans was considerably different before institutional slavery:

Quote:
...Was their culture inferior—and so subject to easy destruction? Inferior in military capability, yes —vulnerable to whites with guns and ships. But in no other way—except that cultures that are different are often taken as inferior, especially when such a judgment is practical and profitable. Even militarily, while the Westerners could secure forts on the African coast, they were unable to subdue the interior and had to come to terms with its chiefs.

The African civilization was as advanced in its own way as that of Europe. In certain ways, it was more admirable; but it also included cruelties, hierarchical privilege, and the readiness to sacrifice human lives for religion or profit. It was a civilization of 100 million people, using iron implements and skilled in farming. It had large urban centers and remarkable achievements in weaving, ceramics, sculpture.

European travelers in the sixteenth century were impressed with the African kingdoms of Timbuktu and Mali, already stable and organized at a time when European states were just beginning to develop into the modern nation. In 1563, Ramusio, secretary to the rulers in Venice, wrote to the Italian merchants: "Let them go and do business with the King of Timbuktu and Mali and there is no doubt that they will be well-received there with their ships and their goods and treated well, and granted the favours that they ask..."

A Dutch report, around 1602, on the West African kingdom of Benin, said: "The Towne seemeth to be very great, when you enter it. You go into a great broad street, not paved, which seemeth to be seven or eight times broader than the Warmoes Street in Amsterdam. ...The Houses in this Towne stand in good order, one close and even with the other, as the Houses in Holland stand."

The inhabitants of the Guinea Coast were described by one traveler around 1680 as "very civil and good-natured people, easy to be dealt with, condescending to what Europeans require of them in a civil way, and very ready to return double the presents we make them."

Africa had a kind of feudalism, like Europe based on agriculture, and with hierarchies of lords and vassals. But African feudalism did not come, as did Europe's, out of the slave societies of Greece and Rome, which had destroyed ancient tribal life. In Africa, tribal life was still powerful, and some of its better features—a communal spirit, more kindness in law and punishment—still existed. And because the lords did not have the weapons that European lords had, they could not command obedience as easily...
Like I said, read the book. It's REALLY good. I read it because Alan recommended it to me.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:19 PM   #15
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From the previous chapter, here's an excerpt from Columbus talking about the first Americans he encountered:

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Originally Posted by Christopher Columbus
They ... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks' bells. They willingly traded everything they owned... . They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features.... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane... . They would make fine servants.... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want.
While racism no doubt made it psychologically easier to perform inhuman acts against other races rather than one's own (See: Psuedospeciation) opportunity and profit-motive was what lead to white hegemony racism as we understand it today.

This is one of the reasons why Malcom X said you can't have Capitalism without Racism.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:28 PM   #16
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:42 PM   #17
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Then, so we can avoid this sort of thing in the future, might I suggest you not imply that one of America's most distinguished Historians and Social Activists doesn't understand the history of racism?
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:40 PM   #18
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You're right. It was ignorant of me to criticize the liberal messiah for taking the accounts of white men from white history to determine that when they were killing off some brown people and buying a few others, they weren't inherently racist until it was discovered that it could be used to enforce the status quo. Silly me.
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:02 AM   #19
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That's not what Howard Zinn said that's not what A People's History of the United States is about.

If you think the book, or even the chapter is apologism for white hegemony I invite you to read it in full. Hell you can probably borrow a copy from Saya, or if not I'll mail you my copy, or you can read it for free online.
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:16 PM   #20
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Dude. That is what he said. It's what you said when you tried to reinterpret it for me, and it doesn't make any fucking sense. It doesn't. You cannot take the white perspective from the white version of history to come to any conclusion about modern racism, especially if you tie to something as asinine as capitalism. It's for the same reason that white people cannot accurately discuss or draw conclusions about modern racism without drawing from the perspective of people of color. White people just do not have the perspective to accurately see it on their own.

Racism is not special in America. To say that it is is fucking retarded. I recognize that it's manifestations can be different, even though they largely ARE NOT, but it's the same thing regardless of what form it takes. There isn't some racism scale or progression, it just is. Actually, WHY AM I REPEATING MYSELF?!

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As you might gather from the link that I posted, my objection to your post is that I do not feel there are different types or variations of racism.
You even agreed with me!

Aside from that, racism is completely separate and irrelevant from capitalism. While you cannot look at capitalism without finding racism present, you CAN look at racism and NOT find capitalism present. News flash! Racism is present in every god damn institution the world over! AAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:07 PM   #21
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I made this for you, Despanan.

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Old 05-16-2012, 06:19 PM   #22
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Yeah. Capitalism is an amoral regulatory force.

If racism is profitable, racism will be used. It doesn't mean capitalism makes racism.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:13 PM   #23
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Pretty much, yeah. I think the main problem is that there is this toxic idea that racism in America is somehow different. You can look at communism, anarchism, whatever you want, and you will see the same thing. There isn't some kind of utopia that doesn't lend itself to avoiding it. They're unrelated.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:21 PM   #24
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This is why I'm starting to be more concerned with the cultural aspects of a communist revolution than the actual structure of how trade will be handled.

It is not enough that the means of production is owned by the worker. That's a decent start, but it doesn't own up to much if that enclave of workers are prejudiced against certain minorities.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:29 PM   #25
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You're right to be concerned, and I'm really glad that you're extending that to everyone.
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