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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 12-14-2009, 08:30 PM   #76
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It works Gothicus, Just substitute clove cigarettes with abortions.
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Old 12-15-2009, 01:15 AM   #77
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Smoking abortions? I can't imagine those being very pleasant. And I can imagine being shot in Texas for it. "I'd like a 20 pack of Marlboro abortions, please..."
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:29 AM   #78
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It works Gothicus, Just substitute clove cigarettes with abortions.
Well, you said 'this' would have happened, by which I assumed you meant the clove cigarette law. Even still, a federal ban on abortion would still be a federal ban. Ron Paul can't even watch Wimbeldon because 'Federer' kind of sounds like 'federal'. Were he ever to sign a federal ban into law, the resulting build up of white-hot, untempered self-betrayal would spur decomposition on an atomic level, and the White House Chief of Staff, that libertarian kid from your American Government lecture who never washes his face and carries a utility knife everywhere, would be left sobbing into a puddle of the base elements revolutium and libertydrogen, his hysterics almost drowning out the words "I, Patrick Joseph Buchanan, do solemnly swear..."
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:43 AM   #79
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Fair enough, I suppose I wasn't very clear. After looking him up I realized that his actual position on abortions was:

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Originally Posted by wikipedia
Paul calls himself "strongly pro-life", "an unshakable foe of abortion", and believes regulation or ban on medical decisions about maternal or fetal health is "best handled at the state level". He says his years as an obstetrician led him to believe life begins at conception; his pro-life legislation, like the Sanctity of Life Act, is intended to negate Roe v. Wade and to get "the federal government completely out of the business of regulating state matters."
Which doesn't really make sense, considering how opposed to abortion he claims to be. I'm tempted to say that he's biting the semantic bullet, and simply hoping/planning that negating Roe V. Wade will lead to a re-criminalization of abortion nation wide, without having to test his political ideals.

Still, he's all for banning stuff, he just wants it banned by state governments instead. I could see a push to ban flavored cigs state-by-state coming from the RP revolution.
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:07 PM   #80
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If they ban it here, I hope I will have quit. -_-
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:10 AM   #81
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Hello

Excellent ! I like it very much

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Old 12-22-2009, 10:31 AM   #82
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The bush administration gave itself the power to lock people up without a trial, forever. They gave themselves the power to listen in on your phone calls without a warrant, to 'sneak' into your home and root through your stuff without cause. The bush administration voted to keep all of this secret and put measures in place anyone who spoke about them would be put in a secret prison forever.

Yet you think banning candy flavoured cigarettes is dictatorship. You really need to reevaluate your priorities mate.
This! The previous administration eliminated your right to due process, a right mankind has been fighting for since the Magna Carta. They seriously infringed your right to privacy, impinged your right to free speech and illegally expanded the power of the presidency beyond what the constitution allows.

I wish I had heard half the outrage about those serious attacks on our liberties as I'm hearing all over the internet about this.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:54 PM   #83
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It's about rights

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This! The previous administration eliminated your right to due process, a right mankind has been fighting for since the Magna Carta. They seriously infringed your right to privacy, impinged your right to free speech and illegally expanded the power of the presidency beyond what the constitution allows.

I wish I had heard half the outrage about those serious attacks on our liberties as I'm hearing all over the internet about this.
For me this issue comes down to basic rights. It does not matter if you smoke or not. At it's heart this is about freedom of choice. Not just in what you can buy but in what you can do. In addition to freedom of choice we can see a perfect example of what we have all come to see as some of the worst attributes in our government, such as meddling by big business and double talk our politicians try to feed us. Yes, there have been other things that eroded our freedoms in the Bush years but as always there is a "tipping point" and for some people this is it. And it does not matter what "this" is, what is important is that people are reaching a "tipping point". So embrace it for what it is, the proverbial straw...at least for some of us.

I'll say it again, contact your representatives in government. Call, write, email whatever just do it if you don't like what they are doing. It can't hurt.

Also, only 6 more days left to comment on FDA actions, you can even call them 1-877-CTP-1373
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The FDA wants public commentary on the law so give them some. Go to http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/G.../ucm173455.htm and tell them it sucks and why. If you do this be clear and concise. Don't just swear at them, I admit it was hard for me not to do just that. Well formed objections will more useful to the cause then rants. The comment thing closes on the 28th of Dec so do it soon if you are going to...
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Old 12-23-2009, 02:11 AM   #84
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You only smoke them because they're black you racist.
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:50 AM   #85
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:57 AM   #86
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IT'S ABOUT PERSPECTIVE - JAIL vs. A HOBBY

Lochnar, THIS is your tipping point? This?

The previous administration abolished your right to due process, meaning that they could just alledge that you were an "enemy combatant" (a phrase they made up to side-step the Geneva Convention) and sweep in, abduct you from your home or work, put you away in a hole without any legal representation, with no access to legal council and nobody being able to know where you were or contact you.

They created the ability to take you away and put you in jail forever without anyone being able to do anything about it ... taking ALL of your rights away.

And THIS is your tipping point? You're a blooming idiot!
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:21 AM   #87
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Lochnar, THIS is your tipping point? This?

The previous administration abolished your right to due process, meaning that they could just alledge that you were an "enemy combatant" (a phrase they made up to side-step the Geneva Convention) and sweep in, abduct you from your home or work, put you away in a hole without any legal representation, with no access to legal council and nobody being able to know where you were or contact you.

They created the ability to take you away and put you in jail forever without anyone being able to do anything about it ... taking ALL of your rights away.

And THIS is your tipping point? You're a blooming idiot!
and you have nothing constructive to add...as I said above "for me this issue comes down to basic rights"
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:53 PM   #88
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Lochnar rocks. 'Nuf said.
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:57 PM   #89
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Lochnar, since I pointed out to you that the previous administration essentially took away all your "basic rights", you didn't have any left for this one to take away.

Hard to say something constructive to someone who so stubbornly insists on holding onto an untenable position.
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Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:08 PM   #90
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Lochnar, since I pointed out to you that the previous administration essentially took away all your "basic rights", you didn't have any left for this one to take away.

Hard to say something constructive to someone who so stubbornly insists on holding onto an untenable position.
As I see it human beings have only one basic right. The ability to choose is something that we all have. No law gives it to us. All out other "rights" are given by law. And law is malleable and dependent on the society in which one lives. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are nothing with out a society that gives them to us. They are gifts not rights. Freewill, however, is there regardless. As stated above, this is far from "an untenable position".

I'm not "stubbornly insists", as you put it, just correct.
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:26 PM   #91
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You're couldn't smell correct if we stuffed it into 30 year old limberger cheese.

You state the only right that matters, the right to choose or freewill, is what you are concerned about. And you are saying that the right to choose to smoke something is more representative of that freewill than being able to choose where you live, which of your communications are private and whether you can speak out in public or not.

So if I tie you up in a strange location and keep you from going anywhere, make all your emails and private correspondence public and prevent you from complaining about it to anyone, you'll be okay as long as you can smoke?

You have a peculiar notion of what freewill is.
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death takes the innocent young,
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Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:35 PM   #92
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You're couldn't smell correct if we stuffed it into 30 year old limberger cheese.

You state the only right that matters, the right to choose or freewill, is what you are concerned about. And you are saying that the right to choose to smoke something is more representative of that freewill than being able to choose where you live, which of your communications are private and whether you can speak out in public or not.

So if I tie you up in a strange location and keep you from going anywhere, make all your emails and private correspondence public and prevent you from complaining about it to anyone, you'll be okay as long as you can smoke?

You have a peculiar notion of what freewill is.
I choose not to allow you to do any of those things.

You seem to continue to operate under some misconceptions. You have no idea of my actions regarding any of the Bush "policy" changes. You do, however, seem ready to assume many things about my actions or as you seem to think inaction. Instead of moaning on the forums perhaps you could, as I have done many times, contact you government's representatives and communicate your desires to them. If not, well, it is your choice.
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:43 PM   #93
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I am actually active politically in many ways. I also speak up in public forums. I responded directly to your statements here. Your previous statements here and my responses to them are sufficient.
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death takes the innocent young,
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Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:46 PM   #94
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I am actually active politically in many ways. I also speak up in public forums. I responded directly to your statements here. Your previous statements here and my responses to them are sufficient.
I applaud your civic activity. And we are in agreement that the previous statements are sufficient.
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Old 12-24-2009, 11:18 AM   #95
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Lochnar you crack me up ^_^
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:56 AM   #96
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My GOD...Lochnar vs. Ben, being cheered on by Alchemie and VIND...

It's like Gothic.nets very own Special Olympics.
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Old 12-25-2009, 01:34 PM   #97
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It's like Gothic.nets very own Special Olympics.
Bwah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah! Now that's frickin' funny!

Trixie, you really crack me up!
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death takes the innocent young,
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the screamingly funny,
and those who are very well hung.


Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
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Old 12-25-2009, 07:46 PM   #98
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Narf!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:15 AM   #99
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http://www.myclovecigarettes.com/

Now everyone quit their damned bitching!

Whenever the man says you can't do something, you find another way to do it.
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:32 PM   #100
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Thanks KontanKarite. Such sites are an option but I will share a few things I have found out from people that use them.

First is when shipping tobacco products into the country they can be confiscated by one or more government agencies including the ATF and US customs. Second, the state or federal government can charge you tax or import fees. While in my opinion (and this not a legal opinion) it should be impossible to collect tax on a product it is illegal to sale but not illegal to have. Some how I don't think that will stop them. Finally, thanks to a new ATF actions all major credit card companies do not allow use of their cards for the purchase of tobacco over the internet. This is, I think, more interference by US tobacco to protect the domestic market from international competition under the guise of protecting children.

So, if you use these sites you do open yourself to seizure of your order and/or getting a bill from your government (state and/or federal) for taxes owed and any fees they see fit and don't forget any legal fees you make incur defending yourself. And you must use some third party like AlertPay (paypal will not work thanks to the ATF) which is Canadian and provide that third party with some sort of access to your bank, via check or wire.

I feel it's better to just contact your representatives and get this law changed. And keep contacting them. Keep on top of them. Don't let them get away with ANYTHING your don't like, not just this.
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