If you eat meat, would you be willing to kill an animal to continue to be able to?

[Mr E Nigma]

Originally Posted by Solumina

The thing is if you have never raised an animal like that, or seen someone close to you do it, then you have a different idea of what counts as a pet. A pet for you is purely for companionship and you don't see how a bond can be formed with an animal that you intend to use.

Could you understand a dairy cow being a pet? Or a chicken that is only used for her eggs?

I actually wanted a pet cow for awhile.... oddly enough I did want to name him "Beef" but I would've never intended him to be killed to eat, I would've liked him to live a full life and die of old age whenever that age would be. But, I was a kid back then and didn't know that we needed a farm and money to pay for its upkeep... So I never had one.....

I don't really ever eat red meat... I just don't find it appetizing, when I was a kid one time my mom put some ham on a sandwich I was eating and it made me think of a cow's tongue... the way it was shaped for some reason. Anyways, ever since then, I can't really stomach the thought of eating that stuff at all. Chicken or fish though, I could do anytime.

[ZyklonB]

Cow tongue is yummy. Tacos de lengua.

[Solumina]

Eh I don't really like the texture of tongue, now tripe on the other hand is something I can't understand why so few people eat.

[Bonquisha Brown]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

That's not true.
At all.

What the fuck do you think vegan cat food advertises?

"Vegan cat food. It will fucking kill your cat; but at least it ain't killing anything else!"


Please tell me you're not that fucking stupid.


Cats need taurine. Vegan cat food has taurine. It merely doesn't come from animal sources.

I think you're the one who needs to reassure us of your intellect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_foo..._or_vegan_food

Cats can indeed get sick, even to the point of dying from vegetarian diets, I witnessed it myself, of course you didn't quote that because it would undermine your point.

And the whole Taurine thing is bullshit. The Taurine may be produced synthetically, but it's created using animal products.

[Pyre]

Originally Posted by Cicero

I can pretty much bet you made that judgement without knowing a single other thing about those people or their culture.

Believe me as someone who's first years of life were spent amongst them, primitive jungle savages they are NOT.

I can pretty much bet you made the judgment that I honestly think they are uncivilized.

I know nothing of the culture or of the people, and therefore I have no opinion.

You people often take me too seriously. Lighten up.

[Mir]

Originally Posted by Solumina

Not at all, what I'm saying is that most people who have only seen pets as something meant for pleasure or companionship don't seem to understand that there can be more to it than that. It is possible to be every bit as emotionally invested in an animal that you intend to eat as one that is purely for companionship. People accept them as a food source but think of them as an animal, instead of thinking of them purely as food.

Pet: Any domesticated or tamed animal that is kept as a companion and cared for affectionately.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Mir

Pet: Any domesticated or tamed animal that is kept as a companion and cared for affectionately.

Yes, I agree that must be true for an animal to be a pet but that it is also possible for the animal to serve a purpose in addition to companionship.

[Mir]

Yes. of course. But, would you call it a pet, though?

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Pyre

I can pretty much bet you made the judgment that I honestly think they are uncivilized.

I know nothing of the culture or of the people, and therefore I have no opinion.

You people often take me too seriously. Lighten up.

Discounting everything I said about them because we're talking about 'civilised cultures' implied rather heavily that you think they're uncivilised and thus not relevant.

And don't worry, I don't take much here seriously at all (perhaps mentioning long pig and Homer Simpson didn't make it obvious enough). I'm here purely for my own entertainment.

[Pyre]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Discounting everything I said about them because we're talking about 'civilised cultures' implied rather heavily that you think they're uncivilised and thus not relevant.

And don't worry, I don't take much here seriously at all (perhaps mentioning long pig and Homer Simpson didn't make it obvious enough). I'm here purely for my own entertainment.

I wasn't discounting what you said, but clearly the argument is relative to where one lives or grew up. In most industrial and post-industrial countries we do not raise our dogs to be eaten. We have livestock for a reason, so we don't have to domesticate companion animals for sustenance.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Mir

Yes. of course. But, would you call it a pet, though?

Yes I would. The animal is loved, cared for, groomed lovingly, some are given toys, depending on the animal they were fed table scraps, and in many cases considered a friend, to me that is a pet.

[Mir]

I guess I need a new dictionary.

[Pyre]

Did you pet it lovingly, telling it how delicious it's going to be when you get it nice and plump? Mmm.

Admittedly, though, some people called "lovetarians" will only eat meat if it's raised with love and care. At least there are people who treat the animals to a good life before they are killed.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Mir

I guess I need a new dictionary.

Are you saying that an animal can be a companion without being a pet? Or are you saying that and animal you intend to eat can't be a companion?

[Mir]

It doesn't matter.

I just find it surprising that people can build up a companionship with an animal that they intend to be eat. I guess people do that. Like I've said before, whatever works for you...

[Solumina]

Would it surprise you for someone to build a relationship with an animal that is being used for food in a way that doesn't result in the animal's death, such as a dairy cow?

[Mir]

No, it wouldn't.

[Solumina]

What about an animal with a terminal illness that you know you will eventually have to make the call as to when to put it down?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Dude. Every time I say something you disagree with or think is wrong or something, it's not that maybe I worded something poorly, or that you don't get what I'm trying to say, it's that I'm an asshole.

Every time someone says something in which they disagree with you, it's not that they actually have a point, it's just that they misunderstand you, huh?

Like with the fucking gas pumping thing. I never fucking said that I want to keep people down so that I can live a more comfy life. I said that if everyone was educated and had degrees, there wouldn't be anyone doing farming jobs and such. I didn't say I WANTED to keep them down. You just read that into it.

You said that example to a comment of how education is necessary. If you cannot see that you have just fucking rationalized the need for keeping people uneducated and suppressed, you can't really say "oh I'm never wrong you just don't get me."
Rather, you can't even see how pervasive your bullshit "that's how things are, deal with it" mentality is.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Pyre

I wasn't discounting what you said, but clearly the argument is relative to where one lives or grew up. In most industrial and post-industrial countries we do not raise our dogs to be eaten. We have livestock for a reason, so we don't have to domesticate companion animals for sustenance.

Why does it have to be relative to culture and upbringing? We're all still humans with the same emotions and feelings of attachment.

Papuans raise livestock for a reason, too. The pigs are raised as food, but they're still respected and highly valued and so are kept as companions. Dogs are raised primarily as companion animals, but they're still considered a viable food source.

All I'm saying here is that it's a very blurry line between companion animals and livestock. It's possible to care for your animals as pets and eat them too. It's only really in farming on a large scale that animals become nameless bags of flesh.

And again, I want to make it clear here that I really have no desire whatsoever to eat my pets (except Paris, but he's a fatty with a gorgeous pelt).

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Mr E Nigma

I actually wanted a pet cow for awhile.... oddly enough I did want to name him "Beef" but I would've never intended him to be killed to eat, I would've liked him to live a full life and die of old age whenever that age would be. But, I was a kid back then and didn't know that we needed a farm and money to pay for its upkeep... So I never had one.....

I don't really ever eat red meat... I just don't find it appetizing, when I was a kid one time my mom put some ham on a sandwich I was eating and it made me think of a cow's tongue... the way it was shaped for some reason. Anyways, ever since then, I can't really stomach the thought of eating that stuff at all. Chicken or fish though, I could do anytime.

There was a family out home that kept pet cows, they killed and ate the mother years ago but as far as I know the daughter, Rosie is still there. During lunch breaks while we were working on summer grants we'd go up to her field and call out to her, she's sweet but it was always scary seeing that big an animal run up to you. She seemed lonely all the time but genuinely happy when we'd come to visit, and we'd bring her apples and I''m gushing like a kid over the memory :3

[Mir]

Originally Posted by Solumina

What about an animal with a terminal illness that you know you will eventually have to make the call as to when to put it down?

Where is this going? Out with it already. I'm curious because it appears as if you're obliquely trying to point out the hypocrisy in what I've said. It may even be true. Social conditioning, and what not.

[Solumina]

I'm just curious as to where you draw the line as to what animal is "normal" for a person to bond with.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Pyre

I kept goldfish for many years, and they never reached the size of a small orange. In fact, never have I seen a fish that size. You may breed them differently over there, but here they are kept at a relatively small size and used to entertain children. I believe I did see a picture of a goldfish that was about 4 inches before, but that is certainly the largest.

No, I had a "regular" goldfish that size, too.
If by "breed them differently" you mean "actually take care of properly," then yes.
PS--It's not a regional thing, because I'm from the US.
I just know how to care for fish.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Pyre

Did you pet it lovingly, telling it how delicious it's going to be when you get it nice and plump? Mmm.

So you have a problem with people eating an animal that they made sure was cared for properly, but you don't have a problem with deliberating stunting an animal's growth because it just to "entertain children?"