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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 07-03-2008, 12:11 PM   #1
JCC
 
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Jillian.

I want to learn about Anarchy.

Recommend me some books if you would sir.
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:43 PM   #2
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Yay! I got two threads!
I think.

Well, let's see.
I'm very fond of CrimethInc.'s publications, but they're not what you'd expect to learn about anarchy. They're infividualist anarchists, so it's more about personal liberation than reaching Utopia. It does have some awesome things. They tell you how to successfully squat a building, organize a Food Not Bombs chapter, sabotage, start a bike community, a freegan collective...
CrimethInc. is basically postmodernist Anarchism. I recommend you to buy or download their publications if you need tips for something.


Now, as for books about the theory of Anarchism, there's some must-haves:
Anarchism and Other Essays by Emma Goldman
Anarchism: From Theory to Practice by Daniel Guérin
God and the State by Mikhail Bakunin
Anarchy by Errico Malatesta
Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution and The Conquest of Bread by Peter Kropotkin
What is Property? by Proudhon
Necessary Illusions and Class Warfare, by Noam Chomsky
(Not actually Anarchist but still worth reading) The twelve issues of Situationist International http://libcom.org/library/internationale-situationiste
Days of War Nights of Love by CrimethInc. Ex-Worker's Collective

Also, not must-haves, but there's
Frank Fernández's Cuban Anarchism: The History of a Movement
And The Pittsburg Proclamation by Johann Most

You can find a lot of these in here http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist...ves/index.html (thank you Dana Ward)
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:05 PM   #3
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More good recommendations? So many books so little time! I will never catch up. I am still reading a dozen books on my night stand. (sigh)
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:05 PM   #4
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Thanks babe.

Library time.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:10 PM   #5
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It's funny. Anarchism is one of those political ideas you think is cool in high school, but then you grow up and you realize how ridiculous the idea is...

Look how successful Somalia is! What a great poster child for a political ideology!
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity
It's funny. Anarchism is one of those political ideas you think is cool in high school, but then you grow up and you realize how ridiculous the idea is...

Look how successful Somalia is! What a great poster child for a political ideology!
Although it will never reach practical application, the benefit of reading and discussing the idea is that one learns to think "outside the box", in real life one will be more willing to question existing boundaries and limits, hopefully in a individual and perhaps even a socially positive way. It broadens a person's mind and the collective mind.
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:10 PM   #7
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The Dispossessed by Ursula LeGuin

http://www.struggle.ws/

This site, if you scroll down has a collection of free Anarchy Books on-line.

There you go.
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Old 07-04-2008, 12:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HumanePain
Although it will never reach practical application, the benefit of reading and discussing the idea is that one learns to think "outside the box", in real life one will be more willing to question existing boundaries and limits, hopefully in a individual and perhaps even a socially positive way. It broadens a person's mind and the collective mind.
Damn straight.

It's learning about life, taking different views and considering them. Life isn't two dimensional and even if something seems ridiculous, it can hold merit and expand your perception rather than being blinkered.
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Old 07-04-2008, 12:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity
It's funny. Anarchism is one of those political ideas you think is cool in high school, but then you grow up and you realize how ridiculous the idea is..
It's weird. I don't know many high school kids that know what Anarchy really is and think it's cool.
You must live in a much better place than me.
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 07-04-2008, 12:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
It's weird. I don't know many high school kids that know what Anarchy really is and think it's cool.
You must live in a much better place than me.

Oooh, buuurrrrnnn.
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Old 07-04-2008, 12:37 AM   #11
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I'm not trying to be condescending. I do, however, have a problem with people saying Anarchy is childish, naive, or utopian.
I just can't think of someone in modern times having the authority to ask Chomsky to grow up.


(interesting fact: Chomsky has had an unusual increase in appearances in my posts lately)
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Quote:
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 07-04-2008, 08:01 AM   #12
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Most of the listed books can be downloaded from;

http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity
It's funny. Anarchism is one of those political ideas you think is cool in high school, but then you grow up and you realize how ridiculous the idea is...

Look how successful Somalia is! What a great poster child for a political ideology!
Somalia's not the only Anarchist state in history. I don't understand the practicalities of Anarchism either. Hence why I want to find out.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity
It's funny. Anarchism is one of those political ideas you think is cool in high school, but then you grow up and you realize how ridiculous the idea is...

Look how successful Somalia is! What a great poster child for a political ideology!
Should note as well that Somalia has had considerable outside (read: Statist) influence since their attempt to disband their government. It's not so much that anarchy has failed, as much as the state is not gone.

For a more successful chapter of anarchism, examine the Spanish Anarchist during the Spanish Civil War.


Most high school 'anarchist', are much like high school 'goths'. Need I say more?
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
I'm not trying to be condescending. I do, however, have a problem with people saying Anarchy is childish, naive, or utopian.
I just can't think of someone in modern times having the authority to ask Chomsky to grow up.


(interesting fact: Chomsky has had an unusual increase in appearances in my posts lately)
No, but if you read Chomsky, even he admits in a way that his anarchist views are Utopian, and that liberal socialism and a reorganized American system of democracy are the practical choices in the real world.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DepthsofSpace
For a more successful chapter of anarchism, examine the Spanish Anarchist during the Spanish Civil War.
Successful? About the only thing they accomplished was strengthening the future of the labor unions. They were fighting the fascists, who ended up taking over the country anyway. The cause of the Trade Unions was admirable no doubt, but entirely unsuccessful.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:09 PM   #17
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You know you didn't actually say anything in that last post, right?
You say "successful?", but you didn't say why it wasn't.
Unless your argument was based in the fact that they lost. If that's your argument, then also shame on the highly unsuccessful Allende's government in Chile.
Successful? Ha! They only had the majority of its people happily behind them and a high literacy rate for a Latin American country back then. They were fighting the CIA, who ended up placing a despotic regime over the country anyway.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity
The cause of the Trade Unions was admirable no doubt, but entirely unsuccessful.
That sums it up pretty well I think. I'm not going to say they were successful just because they were doing the right thing, they were UNSUCCESSFUL because the things they were trying to accomplish, were not accomplished. I'm a realist if nothing else I suppose, so when someone points out the Trade Unions as an Anarchist success story, I'm going to point out the errors in that logic.
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Old 07-13-2008, 03:20 PM   #19
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They accomplished everything they wanted to accomplish. The only thing that was missing was a perpetuation of such an elegant system.
And that has less to do with inherent flaws in anarchosyndicalism, and more to do with the coercion by Republicans to marxists and anarchists to relinquish their ideals temporarily for the sake of an antifascist movement.
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Quote:
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:42 PM   #20
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Please, if you're just going to argue that an organization fighting the fascists in the Spanish Civil War was successful despite the fact that the fascists ruled the country for the next 20 years or whatever it was I'd have to check, this isn't even worth my time.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:57 PM   #21
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I really have to ask you:
Do you honestly think a mode of organization is proven inefficient if it is wiped out by guns?

If a perfect egalitarian society was built, and all people are content with it, and an imperialistic country invades, you somehow rationalize that the system never worked at all because it isn't there anymore?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 07-13-2008, 06:15 PM   #22
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Neither.

I in no way claim that the failure of the Spanish Trade Unions demonstrates that Anarchism is inherently weak. However, the Trade Unions were presented as "a more successful chapter of anarchism". The Spanish Trade Unions were founded in part, if not in whole, to fight against the Fascists in Spain. The Fascists took over. Therefore, the trade unions were unsuccessful.

This isn't a conclusion that can be affected by opinions of right or wrong, whether for good or bad, the fact remains they were defeated. I'm not sure why we're even arguing about this. You can argue 'til you're blue in the face that they were fighting the good fight or whatever the hell you wanna say, but the fact remains that they lost.
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Old 07-13-2008, 06:57 PM   #23
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So what if they lost?
That's what I don't get.
Today there are no fascists; if the same system of individual autonomy combined with voluntary cooperation between unions were to be implemented again, what shortcoming would you find in it that makes you lose faith in it?
Maybe I'm wrong but your whole argument is based on the factor of fascist force, which to me makes sense only as much as saying living in the Baltic shores is stupid due to possible viking invasion.
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I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:46 AM   #24
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Hmmm, CrimethInc. Has some really interesting stuff. I do believe I'm going to order Recipees for Disaster, Fighting for Our Lives, and maybe The Walls Are Alive.
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Old 07-25-2008, 12:26 PM   #25
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Check out AK Press, good stuff there too.
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