Gothic.net News Horror Gothic Lifestyle Fiction Movies Books and Literature Dark TV VIP Horror Professionals Professional Writing Tips Links Gothic Forum




Go Back   Gothic.net Community > Boards > Politics

Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-07-2011, 02:02 PM   #1
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Ethical Tourism

So, my sister really wants to go to Cuba next year and she wants to take me with her, and I'm not sure where in Cuba we'd be going but she insists its a really good deal and the more people in on it the cheaper it is.

I'm iffy because I'm not sure if I'd be able to afford it, but also I feel uncomfortable with the idea of being on a resort, and I'm not sure if such tourism helps local economies or if it exploits them. But I also don't know much about Cuba, if thats a worry (I don't want to be Condescending White Person who assumes all Cubans are living in poverty), if the tourism industry there is exploitative, or if there are certain places to stay that are better than others in terms of benefiting local economy. I'm trying to do my own research right now, but maybe my search terms are sucky or something because not much is coming up specifically for Cuba.

So! I was wondering if anyone had anything they could share about Cuba, travelling without being a privileged asshole, or opinions in general. I have a lot of time to decide.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 01:25 PM   #2
Alan
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
Bring several trinkets. The country has been liberalized more than it was but it might still be best to participate in the black market.
When my best friend went to Cuba he heard of a house where you could have the best lobster dinner (used to be illegal, I'm not sure about the current situation) but the guy wanted my friend's fancy pen instead of dollars. Research on the exchange rate and I'll come back with more advise.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 01:50 PM   #3
Judas
 
Judas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleK View Post
Easy. Stay at a local mom and pop hotel. Buy only Cuban local products and services. It's not as precise as you'd like, but come the fuck on, it's a vacation. I think doing just this would be fine. I don't think any children or knee caps are going to get crippled if you just support their locals. You're only going to be there for a week or so.
I'll agree with that. If you're going to go to another country, experience it.

Those people that spend a butt-load of money (not saying that's what you're going to do) to travel to another country just to stay at and visit places that have all the comforts of home are idiots. What's the point of going somewhere else if you're going to do the same things you do at home? So, yeah, like DK said, go with mom and pop hotels. Eat at local restaurants. If you want to buy something, get something that the locals will get. Check out their sporting events. Listen to their local bands.

When in Cuba, do as the Cubans do.
Judas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 05:57 PM   #4
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
From what I can tell staying in a "mom and pop" hotel isn't an option, she's getting a package deal from a travel discounter so everything's inclusive and pretty cheap, but its "this is where you'll be staying, this is when you'll have your meals" kind of deal, we get a choice depending on where in Cuba we're going, but once we pick the destination there's only one or two options. Will be more flexible with restaurants obviously if we're out and about.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 08:40 PM   #5
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
duuuur you think I was maybe asking if it was ethical so I could make that decision?
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 09:27 PM   #6
Alan
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
Do go. It's more money for the cuban economy. That money is really going to end up in society at large. Say what you want about cuba but their politicians aren't really that rich. The criticisms are on how they spend the money on infrastructure, but not on whether they do spend money on infrastructure.

But I keep telling you, don't just take money but take trinkets of certain value.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 11:40 PM   #7
Fruitbat
 
Fruitbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: In your trash can
Posts: 2,594
Blog Entries: 12
Go. Experience the culture. I'd love to go to Cuba.

The package tour itself is probably not that ethical, but think of the local jobs you are supporting. I'd look into international movements (in whatever area your interested in) and start networking, so you can maybe get a local to show you around.

There are international volunteer programs where you can often get your flights covered if you go to a country to teach them something. I can't think of the names at the moment - battling Babybat who wants to type, but PM me if ur interested.

Package holidays are popular ways for tourists to experience different cultures. A decade or so ago, I heard that Japanese tourists to Australia do their first tour as a package tour - going to Melbourne/Sydney, then the second one is less organised and they branch out to other capitals, and if they come back a third time, then they usually come under their own steam.
__________________

"Always be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle." - Plato


Help me, I'm holding on for dear life

Fruitbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 12:55 AM   #8
CptSternn
 
CptSternn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,587
There are no mom and pop hotels in Cuba, as everything is owned by the government and only large resorts exist there. I wouldn't worry about hurting the locals by staying at a resort, mainly because a large chunk of their countries economy is based directly on tourism and how many people stay at those resorts.

Every bit of money you put in will make it back out to the people in some form or another. Just by visiting you are helping them and their economy.
CptSternn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 01:45 PM   #9
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Do go. It's more money for the cuban economy. That money is really going to end up in society at large. Say what you want about cuba but their politicians aren't really that rich. The criticisms are on how they spend the money on infrastructure, but not on whether they do spend money on infrastructure.

But I keep telling you, don't just take money but take trinkets of certain value.
You'll have to let me know what is worth what, although I honestly can't see myself going to a house and being like "IS THE BLACK MARKET HERE?!!" XD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double K
So this thread was pretty much pointless.
Only your participation. I learned that the tourism industry actually does go back into the economy like it should as opposed to other countries where the poverty of the nation is exploited and the tourism industry makes it worse. If Alan says something is economically ethical that's practically a marriage proposal.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 02:41 PM   #10
Solumina
 
Solumina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
Saya I can't speak for Cuba but I do work in tourism industry in an area that doesn't have a ton else in the way of revenue. Yes, most of the money does go to big companies but without the tourism industry in the area the historic triangle wouldn't really exist. Jamestown, Yorktown, and Williamsburg would be places that you can read about in history books but they certainly wouldn't be the national treasures that they have become. The local artists and cafes wouldn't be able to make it without the income garnered from tourists. The hotels, resorts, and parks (amusement, nature, and educational) employ a huge number of people, especially university students who wouldn't be able to afford school without their seasonal income.

Go, have a wonderful time, and have a clear conscience.
__________________
Live a life less ordinary
Live a life extraordinary with me
Live a life less sedentary
Live a life evolutionary with me
-Carbon Leaf
Solumina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 03:13 PM   #11
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solumina View Post
Saya I can't speak for Cuba but I do work in tourism industry in an area that doesn't have a ton else in the way of revenue. Yes, most of the money does go to big companies but without the tourism industry in the area the historic triangle wouldn't really exist. Jamestown, Yorktown, and Williamsburg would be places that you can read about in history books but they certainly wouldn't be the national treasures that they have become. The local artists and cafes wouldn't be able to make it without the income garnered from tourists. The hotels, resorts, and parks (amusement, nature, and educational) employ a huge number of people, especially university students who wouldn't be able to afford school without their seasonal income.

Go, have a wonderful time, and have a clear conscience.
Its different in different countries, though. I had people on facebook go on vacations then come back and talk about the beggars that would "annoy" them whenever they passed by the gate, and how it was discouraged they leave the resort at all because peddlars and beggars would swarm. Shit like that would not sit well with me at all. In all inclusive resorts where you can't even leave, the foreign company profits far more than the local economy, but where Cuba is communist I had no idea how that works.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 03:26 PM   #12
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
I think you should just go and quit being a weenie about it. If you worry that the tourism package will be exploitative, then just buy a plane ticket to Cuba and wing it from there. That's what I'd do.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 03:36 PM   #13
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Because its cheaper that way, I'm poor, and its on someone else's offer or not going at all, Mr. Moneybags.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 04:00 PM   #14
Solumina
 
Solumina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya View Post
Its different in different countries, though. I had people on facebook go on vacations then come back and talk about the beggars that would "annoy" them whenever they passed by the gate, and how it was discouraged they leave the resort at all because peddlars and beggars would swarm. Shit like that would not sit well with me at all. In all inclusive resorts where you can't even leave, the foreign company profits far more than the local economy, but where Cuba is communist I had no idea how that works.
Bah I've been with tour groups in multiple countries that had people complain about that but I never really had a problem (especially Mexico, everyone kept warning us not to leave the resort except to go on guided excursions, we didn't listen and only ran into a few beggars and they were right outside of the resort, once we got more than a block away there were none), I've encountered far more beggars in DC than anywhere else. Chances are that you will see a few beggars and peddlers but that will happen in most major cities, just keep in mind that the way that they portray themselves in generally just an image to garner the most sympathy and the most money. Jake had a really hard time with this in DC, I cannot tell you how many times I had to pull him away from people who were trying to sell him a sicker or a cheap ass plastic flower for like $3.00 and he just couldn't help saying yes, and couldn’t understand why it was so easy for me to do…until we ran into a friend of mine from high school who sells plastic carnations as his weekend job, dude usually makes more in a single day than I do in a week, and yeah he looks every bit as poor and destitute as all of the other people doing what he does.
__________________
Live a life less ordinary
Live a life extraordinary with me
Live a life less sedentary
Live a life evolutionary with me
-Carbon Leaf
Solumina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 04:10 PM   #15
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya View Post
Because its cheaper that way, I'm poor, and its on someone else's offer or not going at all, Mr. Moneybags.
Then quit bitching about it and go.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 04:18 PM   #16
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solumina View Post
Bah I've been with tour groups in multiple countries that had people complain about that but I never really had a problem (especially Mexico, everyone kept warning us not to leave the resort except to go on guided excursions, we didn't listen and only ran into a few beggars and they were right outside of the resort, once we got more than a block away there were none), I've encountered far more beggars in DC than anywhere else. Chances are that you will see a few beggars and peddlers but that will happen in most major cities, just keep in mind that the way that they portray themselves in generally just an image to garner the most sympathy and the most money. Jake had a really hard time with this in DC, I cannot tell you how many times I had to pull him away from people who were trying to sell him a sicker or a cheap ass plastic flower for like $3.00 and he just couldn't help saying yes, and couldn’t understand why it was so easy for me to do…until we ran into a friend of mine from high school who sells plastic carnations as his weekend job, dude usually makes more in a single day than I do in a week, and yeah he looks every bit as poor and destitute as all of the other people doing what he does.
There are a SHIT TON of homeless in NYC. I see them so often I've started making up names for some of them. There's "Mr. Mumblypeg" who stands outside the 145th street subway like 8 hours a day and mumbles "please help the homeless" while shaking a couple of coins in his hand, and there's "the shoeless Zombie" who has a couple severed toes, looks and moves like a zombie, and walks around the subway car barefooted asking for money to buy shoes (he has shoes). And then there's "Crazy Edna" Who sits on a bench in the 34th street subway and talks to an imaginary person what seems like 24 hours a day.

My subway car is usually hit up by 1 homeless person giving a speech per day (at least). Sometimes they sing, and one dude did an entire comedy routine, one woman just came in and wailed on a broken drum and screamed/sang for someone to "give her some fucking money".

I usually save my dollars for the odd busker, mariachi, or breakdancer.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 04:45 PM   #17
Alan
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
Man, don't patronize the homeless.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 05:25 PM   #18
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
I'm not calling them this, that's just how I think about them in my brain, Alan.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 06:13 PM   #19
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
I will EAT you! I will EAT your family!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 08:28 PM   #20
Fruitbat
 
Fruitbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: In your trash can
Posts: 2,594
Blog Entries: 12
Just go Saya. When will you ever have the opportunity to go to Cuba again.

So the first visit, you maybe in a resort, but ask the people who work there, when is a safe place for you to go out of the resort... say you want to see the local culture.

I remember in Singapore we jumped into a mercedes cab (they have two types over there) and said to the driver, "How much for an hour? we want to see the temples." - he thought we were a little crazy at first, but he drove us around for an hour, we got to see the lights of little india, got to see the really bad part of town, and saw a stack of indians who were walking around town barefoot for some religious festival.

It was the best $70 we spent, plus we got to see the sights and the Taxi driver was sad to see us go at the end of it because we were listening to him go on and on about the local customs etc.

Do it girl.
__________________

"Always be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle." - Plato


Help me, I'm holding on for dear life

Fruitbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:57 AM.