Peak Oil

CptSternn · 04-16-2006, 01:51 PM

San Fran recently passed a peak oil initive to recognise future issues with oil.

There is a brilliant poster that they have available now...

http://www.oilposter.org/index.html

http://www.oilposter.org/posterlarge-x.html

It shows that oil is being depleted at a very high rate, prices are increasing and that the rate of discovery plus the amount discovered is dropping fast.

It also shows the amount of consumption, which countries consume what, and much more.

The charts all show the same thing - at current rates, the US is looking at bad times ahead.

My question is, does anyone else think this plays a part in current politics with the bush administration?

Anyone else have any comments on these figures? Anyone else surprised by these numbers?

Cambodian Breakfast · 04-16-2006, 01:52 PM

Have you heard fo E-85.

CptSternn · 04-16-2006, 01:55 PM

Whats that?

Cambodian Breakfast · 04-16-2006, 01:57 PM

It is the new fuel sorce. Look it up. 85% ethanol 15% gas. It is what the new cars can be powered by.

CptSternn · 04-16-2006, 02:13 PM

Screw that. You see the news on Brazil? This year, they will have 0% oil imports. Why? They have found a way to make ethanol from sugar, and have eliminated their need for oil.

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817

There is a nice article on it there from the WSJ. Wonder why the US doesn't go down that route. I mean, it's kinda sad that Brazil, a nice place to visit, but outside of the tourist areas is a third world country, is able to not only develop a renewable resource to power their country, but were able to do it before the US did.

Iceland powers its whole country through wave power generators.

South Africa uses compressed air powered cars - using no fuel burning at all.

Ireland has the 'green' initive here. By 2050 we plan on being free of all oil/coal/gas fuels. Currently, they are building wind farms across the country and wave farms on the coast. Those, combined with electric and ethynol cars we will use no fossil fuels.

Curious as to why the US doesn't attempt to take these measures and implement them.

Cambodian Breakfast · 04-16-2006, 02:16 PM

Most of the countries you just spoke about are island or small. Look at the size of the us. Not that easy to power by wind. You also have to think bigger that new cars. They are aftermarket part compinies working on replacment parts for older cars. You still can get the same amount of power just cheeper.

CptSternn · 04-27-2006, 03:46 AM

I've travelled the US. I know throughout the midwest and through the southwest there are miles and miles of desert that would be perfect for mass wind or solar farms. However, as shown in the graphic, they don't pay as well as oil refineries, so more oil refineries are built because corporations are all about the bottom line and returning dividines to their stock owners, NOT protecting the environment.

Cambodian Breakfast · 04-27-2006, 09:57 AM

The storms there would rip them out of the ground. Learn somthing about the weather.

CptSternn · 04-28-2006, 05:44 AM

Learn something about wind farms. They can be built to withstand hurricanes. They aren't some wooden windmills we are talking about here.

Blushing Heliophobe · 04-28-2006, 05:49 AM

Hurricanes? Hurricanes are a GULF problem, not a midwest problem. Then again, you also have recurring TORNADOES in the midwest...

Cambodian Breakfast · 04-28-2006, 09:39 AM

F-3 tornadoes can ripe out a basment. Sternn. They can take down a wind tower.

angel_dark_demon_bright · 04-28-2006, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Screw that. You see the news on Brazil? This year, they will have 0% oil imports. Why? They have found a way to make ethanol from sugar, and have eliminated their need for oil.

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817

There is a nice article on it there from the WSJ. Wonder why the US doesn't go down that route. I mean, it's kinda sad that Brazil, a nice place to visit, but outside of the tourist areas is a third world country, is able to not only develop a renewable resource to power their country, but were able to do it before the US did.

Iceland powers its whole country through wave power generators.

South Africa uses compressed air powered cars - using no fuel burning at all.

Ireland has the 'green' initive here. By 2050 we plan on being free of all oil/coal/gas fuels. Currently, they are building wind farms across the country and wave farms on the coast. Those, combined with electric and ethynol cars we will use no fossil fuels.

Curious as to why the US doesn't attempt to take these measures and implement them.

Ok, the reason the US isnt completely oil free and wont be for years is because we have MANY more people than any of those countries you mentioned. We also have a much larger economy, more vehicles and a higher demand for fuel. We are already developing renewable fuel sources. Not ten miles from where I live there is an ethanol plant. And less then twenty-five miles away there will be another one in the next few years (They dont start groundbreaking until like sometime later this year).
Ethanol will work on any vehicle that also burns petrol. The stuff you pump into you car down at the local speedway is already ten percent ethanol. We have petrol stations here in michigan that sell E-85 already. Unfortunately in order to get the stuff you need to process the hell out of your corn. It also takes ALOT of it (or whatever you use) to create a large enough supply of ethanol. Brazil can run its vehicles off ethanol already because they have the farmland and a small enough population for the limited demand that they have. The US is slightly more developed than that, sternn. You need to build new refinaries that can specialy handle the stuff. Then you need to ship it to the very few gas stations that sell it. In the lower penninsula we already have atleast four of those stations.

We also have developed cars that run on fuel cells, on bio-diesel, hydrogen(i have one word for those people, Hindenburg), we now produce hybrid cars. Wind power is often unreliable. You cant build a bunch of wind mills and say "well, we did our part". The weather changes from day to day and you cant expect it to provide enough energy for a city of four million people. There isnt enough places that provide that kind of wind power. In michigan we have many wind generators that catch the air coming off of lake Huron, but an entire town cannot be powered by that. somewhere along the lines there has to be a plant that burns oil/coal to supplement the energy that wind mills dont provide.

So to say that the US isnt even trying is a false and ignorant statement. It seems its alot easier to critisize a nation you know nothing about based on stereotypes and facts that arent even true.

Cambodian Breakfast · 04-28-2006, 09:50 AM

Thank you for an awsome post.

angel_dark_demon_bright · 04-28-2006, 05:29 PM

Obviously sternn, you didnt take into account all the factors before makeing your conclusions.

Crom Crauch · 04-28-2006, 06:34 PM

well... there's always nuclear power... cheap, efficient... lots of power for little effort. as for the gas price? one country is really causing the sky-rocketing prices... China.

CptSternn · 04-29-2006, 05:48 AM

If you believe the current administration is helping america go green, then your dreaming.

http://news.**********/s/ap/20060429/...kxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Bush Rejects Calls for Tax on Oil Profits

WASHINGTON - President Bush said Friday that taxing enormous oil industry profits is not the way to calm Americans' anxieties about pain at the gas pump, and that his "inclination and instincts" are that major oil companies are not intentionally overcharging drivers.

Bush's remarks suggested the former Texas oilman is unlikely to take harsh action against oil companies despite public anger about the rising cost of fuel. Gasoline is averaging $2.92 a gallon across the country, up 69 cents from a year ago, according to AAA's daily fuel gauge report.

Cambodian Breakfast · 04-29-2006, 12:07 PM

I forgot about the GM hydrogen fuel cell skate. A car that need a cell changed every 20 years. You will be able to put different bodies on it for whatever you need.

CptSternn · 04-30-2006, 04:22 AM

South Africa uses compressed air powered cars that can go longer and harder than hydrogen cars, without fear of explosion.

The UK, which has the largest population in western Europe, just installed 3 new wind farms in the middle of the ocean. They are hit by high winds often, which cause no problems.

Population means nothing when looking at the problem of oil being used. If it were tackled on a state-by-state issue instead of looking at the whole country, throwing up yer hands and saying 'I-give-up' its a very fixable issue.

Much like the new healthcare now in Mass., it will take a state to actually force this idea through before the federal us government will actually have to pay attention to it.

Cambodian Breakfast · 05-01-2006, 08:17 AM

The uk dosen't have the largest populition France dose. You are wrong!

CptSternn · 05-02-2006, 03:35 AM

You sure about that? Either way, with France being almost oil free as well, it furthers my point even more.

Cambodian Breakfast · 05-02-2006, 09:02 AM

They both combined don't have the population or land mass the u.s. has.

angel_dark_demon_bright · 05-02-2006, 09:44 AM

What you didnt know america is on its way to being oil free to? Oh yeah. Beleive it or not sternn. Of course you wouldnt know that, since all that you know of the US is pretty much only what you hear on the news. The news always highlights the negatives. Thats what draws attention to it. There is actually progress being done here and in iraq. But it isnt in the news because thats not what draws attention to it. Theres more drama in pain sorrow and suffering.

Its alot easier to generaize about an entirely different country half a world away. Just because politicians have found a solution that works in europe doesnt mean it will work in a completly different place. While there are many similarities between europe and the US, what's true for one wont always be true for the other. We run on a different system than yours. You cant change an entire system that has been building for over a century. Sternn, you have no idea how big a problem this is.

Morrigan_Dubh · 05-02-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom Crauch

well... there's always nuclear power... cheap, efficient... lots of power for little effort. as for the gas price? one country is really causing the sky-rocketing prices... China.

Nuclear power? Do you really want a nuclear power plant in your back garden?

China, eh? Interesting... Can you elaborate?

angel_dark_demon_bright · 05-02-2006, 10:08 AM

While nuclear energy may seem to be a nice, clean and excellent source of energy, the waste that is generated is really quite nasty stuff. It has a lifetime of like a thousand years or so i heard once. Anyways its not a very safe and good thing. Ever heard of Cherynobyl? A city of thousands made unlivable overnight.

CptSternn · 05-03-2006, 08:59 AM

Actually the US uses it in their weapons. They then use the weapons to distribute the stuff around the globe. They have dropped tonnes of it in Iraq already. But thats getting off topic.

The US might have more landmass than say Europe, but how is it then if you add all the European countries together with a comparable population you don't even get close to matching the amount of oil the US consumes? Take a look at the chart in the link at the beginning of this thread. Hell, you can take most all industrialised nations and add them up and its almost the same as the US dependancy.

It's not some freak accident. To say its because of population, size, or otherwise is silly.