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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 03-15-2006, 11:10 AM   #1
Mr E Nigma
 
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Google vs. The Government

http://www.securityfocus.com/brief/111

http://blog.outer-court.com/archive/2006-01-21-n89.html

http://cooltech.iafrica.com/features/841464.htm

These are 3 links to different articles about the current Google vs. The Government case.

Recently the government has asked several search engines, mainly yahoo and msn, to send them search details. Keywords people use to search with, mainly "Porn."

The only search engine that has denied to acquiesce to these conditions is Google.

They have always maintained telling their searchers that they will not divulge any private information and believe statistics of search words is within that category.

The government is bringing google to court to try and force them into divulging this "sensitive" information all so they can find out how many times people look for porn...

I, personally, commend google for trying to maintain their standards and what they have told their enormous amount of customers...

What do you people think?
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Old 03-15-2006, 11:45 AM   #2
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I support google in what they are doing.
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Old 03-15-2006, 12:14 PM   #3
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Yeah, first it's restricted access.

Next thing porn will be illegal.

Fucking wankers!
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:57 PM   #4
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Oooh, ya, let's support Google, they only help other governments repress their people AKA China. Ya, this search engine which trumpets rights for Americans also helps other people's rights be taken away, sorta hypocritical no?

Just a small and quick artical on the issue.
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:33 PM   #5
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I commend Google as well, but I'm curious as to why they won't give statistical information to the government, and yet it made an agreement with the Chinese to censor search items, like Tiannamen Square?
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:51 PM   #6
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If the kids can't find porn on their parents computer,
then they'll just get it from the public Library(computers).
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:56 PM   #7
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Wouldn't the public library have the websites blocked, like schools?
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Old 03-15-2006, 04:00 PM   #8
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I know(Around here anyway)they have some sites already blocked,and certain words are banned from search functions. But how could they block everything, without blocking the whole internet.
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Old 03-15-2006, 04:08 PM   #9
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Two words.

"Bit Torrent"

I'm sure most kids know how to use this application.
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Old 03-15-2006, 06:43 PM   #10
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Damn and I thought that I was the only geek/nerd here.
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Old 03-15-2006, 10:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeishaGirl
Yaarrrr!!!!
Yo, Ho, Ho, and a bottle of rum!
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Old 03-16-2006, 12:08 AM   #12
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Wired - a few decades ago the internet started to glow. Just some "inner circle" guys had access to computers. Then they started to connect them. More and more computers were hooked up to an ever growing network of silicone and dust. And now after the government realizes how it lost control over what´s spread via the internet it´s applying more and more pressure on companies (yeah, like GoGGle ;-) to regain control.
Brave new world. Really.
Even the data on this forum might one day be used against YOU - yes YOU! *shiver*
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Old 03-16-2006, 12:13 AM   #13
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The internet. Possible the one place on earth that freedom of speech really exists.
Why?
Because there is no control.
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Old 03-16-2006, 12:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Because there is no control.
Shi`ark - you sure?

*Har-Har-Har*
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Old 03-16-2006, 12:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIce
Shi`ark - you sure?

*Har-Har-Har*
Oh great now you got me looking around all nervous.
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Old 03-16-2006, 01:15 AM   #16
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You're all nervous??
That freaking eye of yours is looking directly into my soul!!
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Old 03-16-2006, 01:25 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
You're all nervous??
That freaking eye of yours is looking directly into my soul!!
Cool isn’t it, maybe I should sent it as a email to Gorge W Bush.

“Gorge this is God. Let the Geeks have their porn. Find something better for the government to do.”
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Old 03-16-2006, 09:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeishaGirl
Because when you enter someone's country, it's good form to go the way they go. They did it out of respect for the Chinese government.
I was just gonna say that...

Also, Chinese society has been moving towards being more democratic, what with the rise of a new middle class and all. Personally, I think it was an excellent business move on the part of Google. Whether or not it was in keeping with American censorship standards.
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Old 03-18-2006, 03:59 AM   #19
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First off, you know who the biggest importer of Chinese items is? Wal-Mart. So if Google is helping keep people down, then wal-mart is really a threat to democracy.

Things to know. BBC did a great show on China just the other day. They went on about wal-mart, google, and a few other topics. Know a few things about China -

1. They aren't as bad as they used to be, or as the US continually claims. Most Chinese people are quite happy and with all the business and technology there, they live quite well for the most part. The fact that they can even Google at all puts them light years ahead of many nations.

2. The Chinese ban on google is as effective as the ones companies and libraries use to filter as well. They just don't really work, and a dozen sites will allow you to get around them with little or no problems at all. Plus, this is the internet, just because one site is filtered doesn't mean an end to all human rights.

3. Wal-Mart hires underage and under paid workers. Well, they hire companies that hire sub-contractors that do. But no one says anything as the US loves it's Wal-Mart, so if a few dozen human rights violations take place while trying to fulfill the needs of an every dependant wal-mart culture, well, no one seems to care.

So I'm thinking this whole lets hate google because of thier China policy is kinda out there.
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Old 03-18-2006, 07:38 AM   #20
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Got off on that China tangent and forgot to post my thoughts on the US vs Google issue.

Lets look at the patriot act and all those 'sneek and peek' warrants and warrantless phone taps bush has been using.

Of the hundreds of times those laws and acts were invoked, only 2% were terrorism related. This is the number from rummsfeld himself. I'll find the articles if you want, but I posted them a while back on here somewhere.

So, with bush out there trying to get 'random' samples to check for 'porn', well, I'm guessing they will be searching for other things. Lets face it, they said the patriot act wa to 'protect' the people from terrorism, but yet have used it 98% of the time to bypass constitution rights of Americans in common cases such as drug dealing and book making, crimes that are legal in other parts of the world, so they in reality have only used the laws to protect the people 2% of the time, the other 98% they used to strip their own citizens of their rights (look at the various DC drug gang trials and the Gotti book making trials - all thanks to warrantless wire taps and sneek and peek searches plus 'secret' evidence that cant be challenged).

And now the same group wants to search google, to stop child porn. Well, I'm not buying it. My guess is they will be searching for people typing in terms they feel might be bad (i.e. bomb, gun, etc) and will then be using those secret courts and no-warrant wire taps to go once again into the homes of Americans to see what they are up to.

The whole 'if your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear' argument is out the window. I mean, aren't you innocent until proven guilty? So why does the government need the power to search my home and tap my phone based merely on what I've been reading on the internet? If I'm a student I research a term paper on modern day topics like terrorism, why do I need government approval? Why should they be making sure my studies fall in line with their laws? Why does the government need to check library lists? This is the same kinda thing. Free speech, read what you want, but be aware we will be tracking your habits and if you look at information we feel is sensative we will focus personal attention on you as you might be a bad apple.

That is totalitarianism, thats what the US accused Russia of doing all through the cold war, thats what gw himself said he had to 'free the Iraqis' from, but yet he wants the same oppresive government over his own people.

Ironic, but yet scary. Well, if you live in the states that is.
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneider
Oooh, ya, let's support Google, they only help other governments repress their people AKA China. Ya, this search engine which trumpets rights for Americans also helps other people's rights be taken away, sorta hypocritical no?

Just a small and quick artical on the issue.
So you suppose that no search engine would be better than one which censors some?

Brilliant.

Whose rights are being taken away? You mean people who have never been exposed to the rights of which you speak? Ethnocentrism, much?

You can't look at the world from a singular perspective.
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:01 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
First off, you know who the biggest importer of Chinese items is? Wal-Mart. So if Google is helping keep people down, then wal-mart is really a threat to democracy.

Things to know. BBC did a great show on China just the other day. They went on about wal-mart, google, and a few other topics. Know a few things about China -

1. They aren't as bad as they used to be, or as the US continually claims. Most Chinese people are quite happy and with all the business and technology there, they live quite well for the most part. The fact that they can even Google at all puts them light years ahead of many nations.

When they stop doing Involuntary Quinine Abortions and Burn every last fucking one of their Mobile Involuntary "Abortion" Vans, I will consider their human rights record has improved a tad.

Not to mention it is quite possible that we will cease the extinction of the Tibetan people in our children's lifetime because of the Chinese and their Eugenics policies..

And actually in my opinion, I think the US turns a blind eye to what is happening to women and children over there, and in Tibet.

It would be bad business to do otherwise.

The new Leader of China is about to visit Bush in the White House. I'd bet my last fucntioning Ovary that the issue of Forced Sterilization and Abortion doesn't even come up in conversation.

I think that there has been a subtle campaign the last few years, to convince the American people that the Chinese Government really isn't all that bad.

That's a slice of Propaganda I am not buying.
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:13 AM   #23
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god, i don't miss Schterrn one bit.

i may be mistaken (and since i am a US citizen Sternn automatically will think that i am), but this thread had nothing to do with China.

i've said it before that i really don't give a care if teh Big Brotha is keeping tabs on me, for i am not doing anything illegal (hides pirate eye patch)...nothing too illegal anyhow, but so what, i do know it's wrong, if i get caught, more power to those are looking to put an end to my evil doings.

i will say though, that i do like that Google had the balls to stand up when the others collapsed under the pressure.

Damnit, i fell into the politics thread, and i just bathed.
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Old 03-18-2006, 11:45 AM   #24
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***WARNING: Momentarily getting off topic***
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars
When they stop doing Involuntary Quinine Abortions and Burn every last fucking one of their Mobile Involuntary "Abortion" Vans, I will consider their human rights record has improved a tad.

Not to mention it is quite possible that we will cease the extinction of the Tibetan people in our children's lifetime because of the Chinese and their Eugenics policies..

...

I think that there has been a subtle campaign the last few years, to convince the American people that the Chinese Government really isn't all that bad.

That's a slice of Propaganda I am not buying.
Exactly.

And this is one of the reasons I have his ass on ignore and only see this inane shit through quotes. No clue at all. Has has no fucking background, knowledge, or frame or reference other than something he saw on the boob tube.

If your Han Chinese, MAYBE you live semi-decently from day to day... but not as in, you're living the good life. As in, you're not getting your ass kicked by the government. If you happen to be Uyghur, and god help you if you're Muslim, you're living in absolute shit. The government's regard for you then is akin to dog shit. Xinjiang has been subject to hardcore crack-downs that involve the famous Russian disappearing act. Matter of fact, Xinjiang is China's Chechnya.

Instead of just placing the region under lock-down with martial law, they funnel in a bunch of Han Chinese to help repress it's majority Uyghur population (look into the XPCCand other code-named eugenics programs). The government is just afraid of these minorities and cultures. They take Sternn's mentality that just because a few Uyghurs are involved in Islamic terrorism, they ALL are.

I mean, it's sad when these people had to seek refuge in the fucking former Soviet Union.

Hell, the UN summed it up beautifully when we sent several Chinese Uyghurs, picked up in Afghanistan, back to China. The UN said, "Any assurances the Chinese government gives us that these men will not be hurt isn't worth the paper it's written on." (paraphrased)

I mean, that's just one province. As you've already stated, EPS, the PRC has a stanglehold on Tibet and it's cultural identity. Hell, the region is like the Nuba mountains in Sudan where most areas there were competely closed off to foreign travelers, aid organizations, and anyone who wasn't already a resident because the government was seriously clamping down, trying to either wipe out or suppress that culture and it's significance.

No, seriously... just so everyone understands here, what Sternn just said is like the Sean Penn quote from "Team America: World Police;"

"I visited Iraq just before the invasion and it was all rainbow lit skies and lollipop fields where the children would dance and play and be merry."
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Old 03-20-2006, 01:07 AM   #25
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Time to hit a few different points:

I definately have to agree about the government just using this to attempt to find out what other words/terms people are searching for. Such as bombs, terrorism, etc...

I'm an open minded person. I don't condone the acts of such people like Bin laden or the abortions etc... going on in China. But, honestly who are we to tell them what's right and wrong. Everyone has their own beliefs in that and what's good and bad. A lot of other countries probably gasp at things we do
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