very, very much a newbie

kala83 · 08-08-2008, 09:08 PM

lol just so everyone knows quite well I am very much a newbie to both the world(s) and fashion(s) of Goth. So this is me basically wanting to find out more about this world and how I can get into it. I am a 24 year old college student living in Columbia,MO (I would love to meet anyone from the area of Missouri if at all possible.)
I know a lil about certain aspects of the culture but not really too much, I am very odd ball type of person I fluctuate from looking like surfer chick to Gothic ******, or any other ****** look for that matter. I also have any interest at all in Japanese Street fashion of any kind and have grown found of the Steampunk culture as well.

I really want to get into Cyber Goth fashions and other goth fashions as well as just really anything in the culture in general. I have always been fascinated by dark fantasy such as Vampires, Werewolves, and other lovely things that go bump in the night. The more it is frighting and disturbing the more it has an interest for me.

I found in some of my early relationships I like bondage but not really the heavy stuff more so the like to be dominated by someone that is demanding yet sweet and caring...I found that I enjoyed Japanese Rope Bondage the most when I tried it lol though that was just once. I am huge fan of Anne Rice books and I love Lestat! I am actually in New Orleans right now having a vacation and I have gone by the cemeteries and the Anne Rice sites in the city and most enjoyed them. I am also a huge fan of Edgar Alan Poe, and I love gothic comics such as Lenore or Johnny the homicidal maniac.
(I do apologize for the length of this one thing you will find about me is I am a very big talker epically on message boards lol but I mean no harm...just hopefully I am not too very boring to read about.) Anyway I hope I can make lots of friends here, and learn more great things about this amazing culture. Through this place.

kala83 · 08-08-2008, 09:28 PM

in case anyone is wondering the word in ****s is Lol*ita

KontanKarite · 08-08-2008, 09:43 PM

Well... All the things you mentioned aren't goth. Fans of Goth rock will be fans of these things you mentioned. To nip it in the bud right now, the things you like are what you like. Not because it's goth, but because it's you. Goth is, in totality, a genre of music under the category of post-punk. Basically, to be an actual goth, all you really have to do is be a fan of the music. That's it. Seriously. That's all it is. Just a kind of rock and roll. All that stuff about fashion and "dark states of mind" is so secondary that without being a fan of the music itself means nothing. So in essence, to be a fan of goth rock does not require one to be as spooky as you seem to be. All it takes is the fandom of the music. For real.

So check out the music forum.

Godslayer Jillian · 08-08-2008, 10:05 PM

Not to mention the fact that most trad goths (i.e. real goths) tend to cringe upon certain things you mentioned, like vampires and cybergoth, particularly when linked to them.

KontanKarite · 08-08-2008, 10:08 PM

Well yeah. That is true. I tend to cringe at most things that are trying to be spooky.

Godslayer Jillian · 08-08-2008, 10:09 PM

Even the Sesame count?

KontanKarite · 08-08-2008, 10:18 PM

He's mah boi, dawg! Don't talk shit about Sesame Count!

demembers · 08-08-2008, 10:47 PM

i love vampires too! don't let them tell you you're not goth just because you mention vampires

KontanKarite · 08-08-2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demembers

i love vampires too! don't let them tell you you're not goth just because you mention vampires

Don't try to justify the lie that vampires are goth. Go attach your darkness to another label.

gothicusmaximus · 08-08-2008, 11:10 PM

I don't know why people constantly say vampires aren't goth. Anne Rice isn't goth, but vampires are at least as goth as fishnets.

Godslayer Jillian · 08-08-2008, 11:11 PM

Bela Lugosi goes farther than just Dracula.

TurquoiseXx · 08-08-2008, 11:12 PM

Welcome to g.net kala! I hope you enjoy it here.

Kontan, something tells me that person is a troll...

kala83 · 08-08-2008, 11:14 PM

lol I for one know for a fact that most of the things I mentioned are by no means goth but since I am still very new the world of gothicness I can only go off the labels it has in the past. I could really care less if Vampires are gothic or not and really I don't care if anyone like the idea I like Cyber Goth culture or not either. I mean don't get me wrong I love the old fashioned Gothic look but the fact of the matter is I really like color and i like the fact Cyber brings that into play....I really like all kind of aspects of Gothic culture is really what I am trying to say....even the ones that might frowned upon by other people...but honestly is that really so bad?
Goths in general usually have a bad rep and get labeled with "they must be total Emos" I hear dumb ass statements like this from dumb asses people all the bloody time and its sicking. Just because some dresses a certain way likes dark clothing and darker sided things of life you assume that we slice ourselves upon with knives and cry in the dark saying how I wish I was dead? give me a break...people just want to avoid anything different or creative. But at the same time the people in these groups do the same thing to...if not what one person classifys as goth we jump down there throats.

Like you so nicely put it being goth has nothing to do with your interests or likes of fashion it really is just you liking a specific kind of music genre. And to me it has a lil to do with the fashion scene as well since i have always viewed Goth as really just a very large fashion statement which may or may not be a true view for me to look at it upon.

With any of this being said I am not trying to make any arguments believe me the last thing i want is to get on anyones bad side I am really just making observation and commenting on it.
By the way forgive me if this seems totally a stupid question but what are some well known gothic musicians? I don't really know many of them. But would be very interested in learning about some.

KontanKarite · 08-08-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurquoiseXx

Welcome to g.net kala! I hope you enjoy it here.

Kontan, something tells me that person is a troll...

They are. I just seen the most of their posts and if they're not a troll, they're just dumb.

kala83 · 08-08-2008, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

I don't know why people constantly say vampires aren't goth. Anne Rice isn't goth, but vampires are at least as goth as fishnets.

I don't really think Anne Rice her self is goth but I always got the impression from her dark morbid undertones in her stories and scenery that her story telling style was gothic but for me when I think of the term I gothic I always think of darkness and morbidness, thing most people shun I guess. Again my view might be completely distorted but that for some reason was just how my mind always associated things up until this point.

KontanKarite · 08-08-2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kala83

lol I for one know for a fact that most of the things I mentioned are by no means goth but since I am still very new the world of gothicness I can only go off the labels it has in the past. I could really care less if Vampires are gothic or not and really I don't care if anyone like the idea I like Cyber Goth culture or not either. I mean don't get me wrong I love the old fashioned Gothic look but the fact of the matter is I really like color and i like the fact Cyber brings that into play....I really like all kind of aspects of Gothic culture is really what I am trying to say....even the ones that might frowned upon by other people...but honestly is that really so bad?
Goths in general usually have a bad rep and get labeled with "they must be total Emos" I hear dumb ass statements like this from dumb asses people all the bloody time and its sicking. Just because some dresses a certain way likes dark clothing and darker sided things of life you assume that we slice ourselves upon with knives and cry in the dark saying how I wish I was dead? give me a break...people just want to avoid anything different or creative. But at the same time the people in these groups do the same thing to...if not what one person classifys as goth we jump down there throats.

Like you so nicely put it being goth has nothing to do with your interests or likes of fashion it really is just you liking a specific kind of music genre. And to me it has a lil to do with the fashion scene as well since i have always viewed Goth as really just a very large fashion statement which may or may not be a true view for me to look at it upon.

With any of this being said I am not trying to make any arguments believe me the last thing i want is to get on anyones bad side I am really just making observation and commenting on it.
By the way forgive me if this seems totally a stupid question but what are some well known gothic musicians? I don't really know many of them. But would be very interested in learning about some.

Well, I mean... we're all going to encourage you to like what you like and we're going to call you a goth for being a fan of the music. So with that, I give you this list:

Siousxie And The Banshees
Bauhaus
Christian Death
The Cure
Specimen
Sex Gang Children
Sisters Of Mercy

I'm not going to give you a huge overwhelming list because that'd be silly. But I think this list is fairly sufficient for you to start off on getting to know other goth bands.

gothicusmaximus · 08-08-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Bela Lugosi goes farther than just Dracula.

The song is about the actor's relationship to his role as Dracula ("alone in a darkened room, The Count") and doesn't allude to any other aspect of his life or career. Moreover, Bela Lugosi's Dead is only one example of vampire imagery in goth subculture-- Release the Bats also mentioned them, and Dave Vanian changed his last name to evoke Transylvania. The subculture scene coalesced around a club called the Batcave, and bats are powerfully associated with vampires in popular culture.

Godslayer Jillian · 08-08-2008, 11:27 PM

How weird. I was going to say virtually the same, but the other way around. basically, that the thing is bats, not vampires, because bats are campy while vampires are kitschy.

TurquoiseXx · 08-08-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Well, I mean... we're all going to encourage you to like what you like and we're going to call you a goth for being a fan of the music. So with that, I give you this list:

Siousxie And The Banshees
Bauhaus
Christian Death
The Cure
Specimen
Sex Gang Children
Sisters Of Mercy

I'm not going to give you a huge overwhelming list because that'd be silly. But I think this list is fairly sufficient for you to start off on getting to know other goth bands.

I listen to The Cure once in a while and I never knew they were considered goth until I came to this site lol. They are very creative.

gothicusmaximus · 08-08-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kala83

I don't really think Anne Rice her self is goth but I always got the impression from her dark morbid undertones in her stories and scenery that her story telling style was gothic but for me when I think of the term I gothic I always think of darkness and morbidness, thing most people shun I guess. Again my view might be completely distorted but that for some reason was just how my mind always associated things up until this point.

Anne Rice authors supernatural romance novels, only an extremely liberal conception of gothic literature would entail her work. Wuthering Heights is the quintessential gothic novel, read that.
That said, gothic literature has little, if anything, to do with goth.

gothicusmaximus · 08-08-2008, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

How weird. I was going to say virtually the same, but the other way around. basically, that the thing is bats, not vampires, because bats are campy while vampires are kitschy.

That's a bizarre statement. You're saying that every use of bat imagery is consciously cheesy while every use of vampire imagery is unconsciously cheesy?
Have you ever seen Andy Warhol's Dracula? Or Hammer Studios' vampire horror films?

The distinction you've made is besides the point, anyway, as vampires are a motif in goth music and have been since its inception. I've provided examples of this, and though you're free to find these references lame, they do exist.

Epitaphica · 08-08-2008, 11:38 PM

It is certain that being a "goth" ultimately means a fan of "goth" music. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but along with being a fan of said music, there happens to be a certain look and certain lifestyle. There are things that these music fans wear, say, like, or do, that is often also decidedly "goth".

Godslayer Jillian · 08-08-2008, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

That's a bizarre statement. You're saying that every use of bat imagery is consciously cheesy while every use of vampire imagery is unconsciously cheesy?

Not everything. But if we talk about the template of things it's pretty much how it is. Then again if we're not talking about templates where everything is generalized, then the fact that vampires have been used about a dozen times in gothic rock doesn't stop it from being true that vampires are simply not goth.

KontanKarite · 08-08-2008, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epitaphica

It is certain that being a "goth" ultimately means a fan of "goth" music. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but along with being a fan of said music, there happens to be a certain look and certain lifestyle. There are things that these music fans wear, say, like, or do, that is often also decidedly "goth".

...No. Look, I'm not going to adhere to your secondary ideas of what you think entitles people to be a goth. Fuck man, I was doing shit like that long before I knew what goth rock even was.

gothicusmaximus · 08-09-2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Not everything. But if we talk about the template of things it's pretty much how it is. Then again if we're not talking about templates where everything is generalized, then the fact that vampires have been used about a dozen times in gothic rock doesn't stop it from being true that vampires are simply not goth.

A dozen? I'd say there are about as many direct vampire references are there direct bat references. Comparing the two based on the media in which they respectively appear is difficult, as literary, cinematic, or musical works that focus on bats but not vampires are generally either non-fiction, pertinent to Batman, or figurative in a way that's certainly neither kitsch nor camp.
The idea that one broad concept is a kitsch one while another broad concept is a camp one is flawed regardless, as virtually anything can be either, the only difference is the canniness with which the cheese is rendered.