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Old 06-25-2008, 07:43 AM   #1
Barfing_Rat
 
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Is the country getting too soft on some of sickest people around?

http://news.**********/s/ap/20080625...tus_child_****

Put in yahoo dot com at first part of the stars then r a p e without space in last four.


WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court on Wednesday struck down a law that allows the execution of people convicted of a ****** a child.

In a 5-4 vote, the court said the Louisiana law allowing the death penalty to be imposed in such cases violates the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

"The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the **** of a child," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his majority opinion. His four liberal colleagues joined him, while the four more conservative justices dissented.

There has not been an execution in the United States for a crime that did not also involve the death of the victim in 44 years.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court has struck down a Louisiana law that allows the execution of people convicted of a ****** a child.

In a 5-4 vote, the court says the law allowing the death penalty to be imposed in cases of child **** violates the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.
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Old 06-25-2008, 07:50 AM   #2
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This kind of thing really piss me off. In my opinion there's nothing worst than people who rap.e children. It just seems like law is starting to gaining even more sympathy for rapis.t and pedophilia everyday. I'm afraid that if this keep up, in a couple years, it will be perfectly ok to be a pedophilia, hanging at park where the kids play and jack off in front of the kids and there will be nothing anyone can do about it. It seems like hating pedophilia is getting closer and closer to being more well protected than the children themselves and soon it will be considered a hate crime if someone is against pedophilia.
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:31 AM   #3
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Fuck the death penalty. In any situation. From Saddam Hussein to a petty thief I don't agree with it.

Also, you need to make a distinction between paedophiles and child rapists. Paedophiles get all the respect in the world from me, it's an unfortunate sexual preference that leads them to ultimately be lonely forever, and the ones that can enforce restraint and avoid intimacy forever are the real heroes of this society. Child rapists are the same as rapists to me, bad thing to do. I believe in a second chance for everything though.
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:36 AM   #4
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I don't put child rapists next to rapists. Rapists tend to have ulterior impulses than merely sex, and the conscious assault to a child is unpardonable.
Nevertheless, I do not agree with the death penalty at all anymore. For anyone. A society that dehumanizes some of its people, seeing them as numbers and potential dangers and risky variables if not isolated, should not have the right to exterminate those it deems inhuman.
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:43 PM   #5
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Old 06-26-2008, 06:11 AM   #6
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I agree with Jillian.

Living in a society that the government decides who it can kill based on what it deems appropriate is not a society I want to live in. Murder is murder.

Furthermore, people involved in such crimes are sick. They need help. As I have pointed out in the thread on the death penalty, Canada did studies and showed that people who engaged in this type of act can be rehabilitated if given proper medication.

What does it say about a society that would kill a sick person rather than treat them because it costs more money? What does it say about a society that wants to kill the mentally ill just to satisfy a blood-lust held by a portion of its citizens? Whats it say about a government, or government officials, who support this sort of thing?

Whats real ironic is those who scream the loudest to keep this sort of thing legal are the same ones claiming to be Christian - the right wing.

I find it hard to believe you can truly be a Christian and advocate state sponsored murder and the killing of the mentally ill. I also find it hard to find anywhere in the teachings of Christianity that would support such actions.

I could go off on a tangent and bring the various wars into this as well, again the same people who support going to war and killing tens of thousands of innocent women and children also fall into this category.

I guess the real question is:

WWJK? Who would Jesus kill?
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Old 06-26-2008, 06:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfing_Rat
I'm afraid that if this keep up, in a couple years, it will be perfectly ok to be a pedophilia, hanging at park where the kids play and jack off in front of the kids and there will be nothing anyone can do about it.
Really? Because I've been noticing the opposite. You accuse someone of pedophilia and everyone automatically goes "OH MY GOD THE SICK BASTARD I HOPE HE GETS HIS DICK RIPPED OFF." One of politicians' favorite things to do is increase the already draconian restrictions on convicted sex offenders.

Not that I want to be an apologist for rapists, but things are getting rather absurd.

In any case, I disagree with capital punishment.
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Old 06-26-2008, 09:45 AM   #8
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I agree with it, to an extent.

Capital punishment, in my opinion, is more of a fear inducer rather then justice. If they can scare people away from commiting crime, then they can reduce the crimes punishible by death by that slim margin. That's one less person who could've been killed in Third Degree murder, and one less person who would be sitting in the chair, walking the green mile.

Now, while I believe psychological imposition is better used in law and justice, as opposed to trying to smuggle money out of us in marketing for instance. However, I don't think it's nearly as effective, becuase many of the crimes people commit, they know the consequences (vaugely or otherwise), but they are trying to think optomistically. People have this weird little tendancy to blot out what they don't want to accept as true and embelish what they do want to believe as true.

I think that removing the death sentence completely is bad, however, just simply, slowly phasing it out of practice. That way it can't be announced, and publicized and create a backdraft of crime. On top of that they could keep it in reserve for the truely dangerous.

Granted, everyone deserves a second chance is a noble stance, but I don't think it's very realistic. Suppose a crime lord finally gets put behind bars, would you recommend he gets oppurtunties to leave, continue on his practices and learn from his faulter, passing it on to further generations of mobs?

I think the second chance ideal is just far too forgiving but that's just me.
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Old 06-26-2008, 03:02 PM   #9
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Capital punishment could be even more of a fear inducer if the appeals process wasn't such a fucking joke. Case in point: Several years ago, a guy in California named Robert Alton Harris was convicted and sentenced to death for murdering two teenagers and stealing their fast food lunches. One of the kids was made to beg for his life before being shot in the face at point blank range. Harris languished on Death Row, filing endless appeals, for 16 YEARS before being put to death. That's kind of ridiculous.
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Old 06-26-2008, 03:04 PM   #10
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He'd have been waiting, even if he didn't file appeals. Death sentence is purposely long for multiple reasons, and in case of a proper appeal is just one of them.
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Old 06-26-2008, 06:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
Also, you need to make a distinction between peadophile and child rapists. Peadophiles get all the respect in the world from me, it's an unfortunate sexual preference that leads them to ultimately be lonely forever, and the ones that can enforce restraint and avoid intimacy forever are the real heroes of this society.
Thank you for saying this so that I don't have to, although I will go on to say that 99.8% of sexual assaults of children are perpetrated not by pedo.phile but instead by heterosexual males (I can source the study I have pulled this from if you want). Sexual assault isn't about sex, it is about power, control, and in the case of assault against a child it also involves the corruption of innocence.

I also happen to think that capitol punishment is wrong on quite a few levels. What right does a state have to say if someone deserves to live or die? Yes the state does have a duty to protect its citizens but all that needs to be done is to take these people off of the streets. Hell if you don't think someone deserves to live after they have committed an atrocious act then trow them in with the general population, their life expectancy will be far shorter there than on death row, especially if they have committed a sex crime, and even more so if that sex crime involved a child.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Killer
I agree with it, to an extent.

Capital punishment, in my opinion, is more of a fear inducer rather then justice. If they can scare people away from commiting crime, then they can reduce the crimes punishible by death by that slim margin. That's one less person who could've been killed in Third Degree murder, and one less person who would be sitting in the chair, walking the green mile.

No offense, but your opinion is wrong.

Your assumption that it is a fear inducer to scare people from committing a crime is a flawed theory. In America, gun murders alone account for tens of thousands of murders A YEAR, and each year that number grows. If it truly scared people, then there wouldn't be ANY murders, or at least a lot less.

In fact, studies show that it actually has the opposite effect. If a criminal accidentally kills someone in the commission of a crime, they usually become more prone to commit murder since they now know the stakes have been raised.

In the UK, Ireland, and most of the rest of Europe, we have less than 1% of the numbers (per capita) that America has. We have no death penalty. If your theory was to hold true, the numbers would be reversed.

Sine they aren't, one can safely say that statistics show there is no deterrent for countries using the death penalty and countries that use alternative forms of punishment have a much higher rate of rehabilitation as well as a much lower murder rate.
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:53 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by CptSternn
In the UK, Ireland, and most of the rest of Europe, we have less than 1% of the numbers (per capita) that America has. We have no death penalty. If your theory was to hold true, the numbers would be reversed.

Sine they aren't, one can safely say that statistics show there is no deterrent for countries using the death penalty and countries that use alternative forms of punishment have a much higher rate of rehabilitation as well as a much lower murder rate.
No, you're missing a major lurking varible in that assumption.

America is a land with many many people in it from many many walks of life. Whiney, in this case, is very loosely defined. In Minneapolis, they had to create a part-tide for most of the apartment buildings in the down town and seperate blacks and Hmongs, becuase they were killing each other left and right. The cultures were vastly different, and small troubles added up really quick.

Not to mention that there is a little bit of a skew in the fact by using Per Capita. the average here is huge, but we have large immense cities where murders can happen and never be solved. New york alone probably has more cold case files then the residents of the UK. If you live in a city where you won't get caught, what's keeping you from killing when you mug some poor bastard? Dead men tell no tales, after all.

Also, murder tends to be very spuratic or impulsive. I said myself the thinking was flawed, and this is the major one. People don't tend to think about consequences until after they've taken action.

So, I agree that the fear doesn't help much, but In my opinion, that sword of Damocles is hung very purposefully.
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:20 PM   #14
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But in the states it isn't the impulsive murders that people fry for, it is premeditated murders. That and you can't say that the US is oh so much more diverse than Europe, go over there and take a look at all of the cultures that are thrown together, it very well may shock you. Not to mention that Europe has more than a few very large, very densely packed cities so that bit of your argument is way off.
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Old 06-27-2008, 07:14 PM   #15
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So do you think someone convicted of statutory raipe should be executed. I see nothing wrong with an two people having sex (one if of age, one is underage) as long as they are willing. it's ridiculous for a 16 year old be be charged with it if they had sex with a 15 year old.

Rap.e is different from consential! Statutory rap.e is a contradiction.

As far as people being executed, I find it kind of stupid. I don't believe in an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.
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Old 06-27-2008, 07:25 PM   #16
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um...I don't think that there is anyone saying that someone should fry for statutory, this is about the sexual assault of children, no adolescents. That and the reason why statutory **** exists is because someone who is a minor cannot legally give consent, that and it is quite easy for an older person to emotionally manipulate a younger, more naive, person
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:22 PM   #17
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Statutory **** is still entirely arbitrary.
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Old 06-27-2008, 10:16 PM   #18
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You know. Pedophilia is a mental condition. I wonder if pedos that seek help actually get it and aren't black-balled for their condition.
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Old 06-27-2008, 10:31 PM   #19
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The lucky ones are able to be helped but it takes a lot for them to actually go and get help because they are afraid of the possibility of people finding out what they are, which is really sad because therapy can do them a world of good.
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Old 06-28-2008, 05:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serephurus
So do you think someone convicted of statutory raipe should be executed. I see nothing wrong with an two people having sex (one if of age, one is underage) as long as they are willing. it's ridiculous for a 16 year old be be charged with it if they had sex with a 15 year old.

Rap.e is different from consential! Statutory rap.e is a contradiction.

As far as people being executed, I find it kind of stupid. I don't believe in an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.
Who said anything about statutory r.ape?
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:00 AM   #21
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My friends were talking about this independently of the boards, and they all agreed that guys like that should die slow, horrible deaths. I, too, was very condemning. But the more I think about it, the more I realize that the damnation of the sick is extremist and puritanical. I firmly believe we are not victims of our past, but we are made up of it. So while I become extremely angry at those who follow through with child ****--to destroy someone's innocence and traumatize them for life is inexcusable, no matter your past or your problems--I have every sympathy in the world for those silent martyrs who have an unfortunate sexuality, are powerless to change it, are unable to publicly confront it, and thus must repress a part of themselves and suffer silently until the respite of death takes them far from the judging eyes of this world.

There are such huge stigmas in the US around any mental illness. People use terms like 'psycho' or 'skitzo' as joking terms when they want to call their friends crazy. Our society teaches that the physically ill are to receive our sympathy, kindness, gifts and good wishes, in a safe and comfortable bed until we are better, while the mentally ill receive our fear, revulsion, and punishment, locked away from the rest of society like criminals. Why do we treat the one and torture the other?
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:06 AM   #22
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Fuck the death penalty. In any situation. From Saddam Hussein to a petty thief I don't agree with it.
Amen brother. Death Penalty is cruel and unusual in any circumstance. Chronic and/or dangerous criminals should be taken out of circulation (perhaps for the rest of their lives), but execution (not to mention some of the horrific botched execution jobs) takes society beyond the pale.
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:20 PM   #23
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Quote:
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This kind of thing really piss me off. In my opinion there's nothing worst than people who rap.e children. It just seems like law is starting to gaining even more sympathy for rapis.t and pedophilia everyday. I'm afraid that if this keep up, in a couple years, it will be perfectly ok to be a pedophilia, hanging at park where the kids play and jack off in front of the kids and there will be nothing anyone can do about it. It seems like hating pedophilia is getting closer and closer to being more well protected than the children themselves and soon it will be considered a hate crime if someone is against pedophilia.

I’d have to agree with Barfing_Rat on this…someone needs to draw the FUCKING line…
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:31 PM   #24
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Paedophiles get all the respect in the world from me

Really??? So, it’s little wonder that you don’t agree with the death penalty…maybe YOU’RE one of those sick mother fucker pedophil.e.s huh? Is that why YOU disagree with the death penalty??? How can you sympathize with some one who consciously KNOWS they’re doing something WRONG??? Are you saying that pedophilia is an acceptable social phenomenon? WTF??? Are you fucking high??



I say not only is the death penalty necessary, but also a BRUTAL UBER-SADISTIC PUBLIC death penalty is in order! Slay these mofos in front of 100 000+ people and you will see a dramatic drop in these crimes. I do NOT believe that this is a mental illness…these mofos are completely aware of what they are doing and they know damn well that it is fucking WRONG!! Don't fucking kid yourself!!!

**sigh** just another example of corporate lawyers trying to make more money off of infamous lawsuits…and those blasphemous fucking lawyers will have their day in court too…not in the court of “stupid and corrupted man” but in the Court of the Kingdom of the Most High!!! **shakes fist**…vigorously! Burn in hell!! mofos!!
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:03 PM   #25
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um...JCC's point was that he respects the ones that don't act on their impulses, that and the fact that there is a huge difference between pedo.philes and child molesters. Pedo.pelia is a psychological disorder that causes the person to be unable to form emotional attachment correctly. As I stated before most cases (99.8%) of sexual assault against children is thanks to heterosexual men, allow me to elaborate on just what is meant by this. These men are sexually attracted to adult women, they have sex and form bonds with adult women, they are not pedo.philes, they are child molesters.
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