Arizona's Next Immigration Target: Children of Illegals

[Alan]

If you don't like his argument then respond to mine.

[vindicatedxjin]

Originally Posted by LenorePoe

might as well be the way they're mooching off the country, stealing jobs, filling our clinics, etc.
YOU BREAK THE LAW don't act all surprised and butthurt when you get busted.

Wow aren't you a bitch... you do realize that they are helping our economy BIG TIME? And that the US is getting taxes from them, that they aren't even getting back? And when you mention stealing jobs... all I can say is that I don't see very many white boys getting of they're asses from playing ps3, to go do construction work. Just saying.

[LenorePoe]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

Wow aren't you a bitch... you do realize that they are helping our economy BIG TIME? And that the US is getting taxes from them, that they aren't even getting back? And when you mention stealing jobs... all I can say is that I don't see very many white boys getting of they're asses from playing ps3, to go do construction work. Just saying.

you an "just say" what you want but there are plenty of white boys out there desperate for jobs but can't get any because migrant works are willing to work for next to nothing to support their 13+ kids.
If they really want to be here so bad, they should do it the legal way.

[vindicatedxjin]

Originally Posted by LenorePoe

you an "just say" what you want but there are plenty of white boys out there desperate for jobs but can't get any because migrant works are willing to work for next to nothing to support their 13+ kids.
If they really want to be here so bad, they should do it the legal way.

Immigrants are working in the backs of kitchens cooking in the heat, on the sides of roads mowing or doing construction work... I have tons of guy friends who don't have jobs...not because there aren't any...but because they want to be able to sit in an air conditioned building with a screen in front of they're faces. They don't want to get dirty.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by Hearts_Purple

How are they gonna enforce it? Unless they check the papers of every single person who ever gets pulled over there's going to be a lot of racial profiling.

If they suspect someone of breaking a law other than being an illegal immigrant, they should check their papers. After all, checking their IDs and whatnot is usually part of what happens when a cop stops you.

I know for a fact that there are people all over the world(From Canada to New Zealand) in the US illegally. Are the white people gonna have to live in fear of getting deported, too?

If they're here illegally, then hopefully.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

Immigrants are working in the backs of kitchens cooking in the heat, on the sides of roads mowing or doing construction work... I have tons of guy friends who don't have jobs...not because there aren't any...but because they want to be able to sit in an air conditioned building with a screen in front of they're faces. They don't want to get dirty.

Ah, the old "illegals do the jobs that no one else wants to" myth. Funny how I'm doing one of the very jobs you listed...

[Alan]

Funny how an illegal hasn't taken your job, then.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Yeah, kinda busts a hole in "illegals are better workers" myth, too.

[Alan]

The fuck are you even talking about?
Why exactly are you against immigration again?

[vindicatedxjin]

Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

Yeah, kinda busts a hole in "illegals are better workers" myth, too.

Now it seems like you think it's all about who's better than who... REALLY?

[LenorePoe]

Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

Ah, the old "illegals do the jobs that no one else wants to" myth. Funny how I'm doing one of the very jobs you listed...

I do too. Hot kitchens anyone?

[KontanKarite]

For those that preach about immigrating the LEGAL way: Has ANY of you actually looked into how that's done and exactly how much money it costs to do it the legal way? I'll be a betting man and say that not even the average American can afford to pay the fees and costs for a Visa or a greencard. It's fucking retarded expensive. Hell, if I were somehow stripped of my American citizenry and gained citizenship somewhere else, I could play HELL trying to become an American citizen again.

Look it up, guys. As for those preaching about illegal immigrants taking away jobs... well, the only way they're going to do that for less money is to work under the table pay and if your employer will consider doing that, then it may be time for you to question your employer's ethics.

PS: LenorePoe, you're close to becoming as bad as VindicatedxJin.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

For those that preach about immigrating the LEGAL way: Has ANY of you actually looked into how that's done and exactly how much money it costs to do it the legal way?

THANK you!

[Despanan]

Yeah, i had written a Johnny-cash styled song about it that I tried to post, but Gnet ate it.

Seriously, they want around $2,500 just for a temporary work visa, four-grand for an 01 visa, and if you want to become a citizen you need to pay upwards around 10 grand.

Shit man, I couldn't pay that.

And if you're an artist? It's even worse, 4 grand AND you need to have a list of every gig you're going to play for the time you're in the country (the entertainment industry doesn't work this way, so it basically forces you to make up jobs and forge papers.)

There are ALOT of greedy people out there looking to line their pockets off of immigrants.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

For those that preach about immigrating the LEGAL way: Has ANY of you actually looked into how that's done and exactly how much money it costs to do it the legal way? I'll be a betting man and say that not even the average American can afford to pay the fees and costs for a Visa or a greencard. It's fucking retarded expensive. Hell, if I were somehow stripped of my American citizenry and gained citizenship somewhere else, I could play HELL trying to become an American citizen again.

It costs upwards to about $6,000 for a green card. However, it costs as low as $325 for a non-residential work visa. If one gets a work visa, gets a job, and saves as much money as possible, getting that $6,000 isn't very hard at all.

The problem is that many people think that they have to go right for the green card, and don't even consider work visas. They themselves don't put in the effort of researching the immigration process. All they know is the little bit they heard, which basically amounts to "Legally in America = green card = too expensive." Which not only is incorrect, but it's sadly repeated by Americans as well because they don't do the research, either.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

It costs upwards to about $6,000 for a green card. However, it costs as low as $325 for a non-residential work visa. If one gets a work visa, gets a job, and saves as much money as possible, getting that $6,000 isn't very hard at all.

The problem is that many people think that they have to go right for the green card, and don't even consider work visas. They themselves don't put in the effort of researching the immigration process. All they know is the little bit they heard, which basically amounts to "Legally in America = green card = too expensive." Which not only is incorrect, but it's sadly repeated by Americans as well because they don't do the research, either.

Proof. Now.

Also: Actually, it is. Cost of living + taxes + moving expenses + the fact that since you're a foreigner to begin with you're not going to be working lucrative jobs.

Most illegal immigrants are unskilled laborers. They work in kitchens, and on farms, and construction projects. It's not realistic to assume they could even afford the temporary work Visa, let alone the cost of becoming a citizen.

[Despanan]

Still waiting on that proof BTS.

[Alan]

Dude, relax. That's one of the worst things you do: people have to respond when you want, not when they can.
He hasn't even logged on since; it just comes out as petty. This isn't a rant; it's just that it's seriously something you do quite a bit, yet when JCC said that to you, you were condescending about how you have a life and whatnot.

If he had simply ignored what you said and kept posting in other threads, then fine. But you're not even giving him the chance.

[Hearts_Purple]

Originally Posted by LenorePoe

might as well be the way they're mooching off the country, stealing jobs, filling our clinics, etc.
YOU BREAK THE LAW don't act all surprised and butthurt when you get busted.

Everytime I hear or see the 'stealing our jobs' bullshit argument I laugh. Yeah, fucking right. You know how many white people I ever saw apply for kitchen jobs or any other jobs most minorities fill right now in resaurants? ZERO-FUCKING-PERCENT! Immigrants/minorities do the jobs white or legal American people think is completely beneath them.

I have seen far, far more immigrants working harder(as in leaving one 8 hour job to go straight to another) than lazy Americans. I've seen a lot more Americans mooching off the system than illegals so don't even give me that horse shit!

[KontanKarite]

I think it's safe to say that LenorePoe got perfectly pwnt.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Alan

Dude, relax. That's one of the worst things you do: people have to respond when you want, not when they can.

Everyone must post ON MY SCHEDULE GODDAMMIT.

Now stop posting out of turn Alan, I don't have you penciled in until mid-August.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Everyone must post ON MY SCHEDULE GODDAMMIT.

Now stop posting out of turn Alan, I don't have you penciled in until mid-August.

That gave me a great big smile.



On topic, I remember reading about a guy upstate from me who posted advertisements for work absolutely everywhere in every job agency, newspaper, what have you, and nobody applied. He owns a lettuce farm and needed some field hands. He was offering similar wages to any other farm hand, above minimum wage, even if not by much. Nobody applied EXCEPT for illegal immigrants. Mind you, I'm in California, our unemployment is approaching 13% soon enough, so the fact NOBODY APPLIED, fuck skilled and were hired, APPLIED, is just sad.

[CptSternn]

I posted a reply about that very issue in a few of the threads here. I didn't want to repeat what has already been said ten times over, as for some reason people keep posting the same crap augments, when they find themselves in a corner in said argument, they take it to the next similar thread and repost it.

But to post again since it looks like all the Mexican haters are going to continue regurgitating the same responses and ignoring the facts in every thread on the topic, I will post a few old ones as well.

Like Joker said, MSNBC news did a big piece on that very topic. CNN also did a similar piece with many of the same companies featured in the MSNBC piece. If you Google, you can find links to many, many news reports that cite these statistics.

Lettuce, oranges, peanuts, grapes, etc - pretty much every farming industry in America uses illegal labour. Not only farming but every major meat packing industry as well. Chickens, pigs, cows, anything you get at the local supermarket was probably handled by an illegal immigrant somewhere down the line.

They interviewed heads of the companies, on the news, who said point blank they hire illegals. They didn't try to gloss it over, they said two things which pretty much sum up the argument -

1. It is cheaper to import food (meat/produce) from Mexico than it is to grow/produce it in America. There is no more border, and under WTO and NAFTA rules America can't put tariffs on the stuff. That means the 'free market' will set the price, and that price is a lot cheaper in Mexico. The only way American producers can stay competitive and not go bankrupt is to hire people who work for less than minimum wage and give them no benefits. The only people who will do that are illegals.

They could hire Americans, but sure, the cost of your next hamburger at McDonalds will be like it is in Ireland (a Big Mac here is €7.99 - about $10.00 - thats not a meal, thats just the burger). Once you are forced to pay workers minimum wage and give them benefits, the price rise will be passed on to consumers.

The other option is to have companies like McDonalds and your local supermarket to source all food from Mexico and put pretty much every food related company in America out of business.

2. The second issue that was continually raised was the fact, like Joker and others have said, no one is applying for these jobs. It takes HUNDREDS of workers to work a field. It's hard, back breaking labour done in the hot sun. You don't see college students, or any other Americans for that matter, lining up to do that sort of work - especially when you get minimum wage and no benefits. We aren't talking about a few openings, we are talking about hundreds for each company - and without those positions being filled they will go under in one single season.

In fact, a few even said they would hire Americans today - even with all the illegal labour they STILL need more people, yet no one is beating down their doors trying to get work.

The reality is companies know this. In todays market they can't stay afloat without the Mexicans doing all the work. McDonalds, Wal-Mart, etc. all depend on illegal labour somewhere down the line - from getting raw materials to production to packaging - they are in the mix everywhere. Companies know this, politicians know this - but the right wing keep pandering to the ignorance of those who are just angry because they are poor or out of work or both.

Watch election time - I bet whatever republican candidate appears will have a totally different tune come election season - companies like illegals. Companies own the republican party. All your seeing now is bullshit rhetoric meant to incite the masses, but the reality is they have no plan to do anything.

[LenorePoe]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

For those that preach about immigrating the LEGAL way: Has ANY of you actually looked into how that's done and exactly how much money it costs to do it the legal way? I'll be a betting man and say that not even the average American can afford to pay the fees and costs for a Visa or a greencard. It's fucking retarded expensive. Hell, if I were somehow stripped of my American citizenry and gained citizenship somewhere else, I could play HELL trying to become an American citizen again.

Look it up, guys. As for those preaching about illegal immigrants taking away jobs... well, the only way they're going to do that for less money is to work under the table pay and if your employer will consider doing that, then it may be time for you to question your employer's ethics.

PS: LenorePoe, you're close to becoming as bad as VindicatedxJin.

BAAAW- its really hard to follow the rules, so that makes it okay to break the law. - stupid logic.

[LenorePoe]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I think it's safe to say that LenorePoe got perfectly pwnt.

You can say what you want, but it doesn't make it true.
I can't believe people are trying argue that people shouldn't be punished for breaking the law because its not nice.