Iraq Revisited

[ArtificialOne]

BTW. So far the new "Surge" appears to be working. Of course they are probably hiding out and waiting because they think they will leave again. But not this time, they are actually going to stay in one area and set up security detachments. The Iraqi govt also appears to be taking action also.

And for Pakistan. If you have an "Ungoverned" section of land in your country, why even claim it. Let others go in and mop up the mess you are hiding there (aka Taliban and Alqueida).

Al Sadr is mia and his people are doing nothing.

Reports now say cities on the outskirts of Iraq want the US to stay and help.

It's funny how the mass media is downplaying the good news in Iraq.

It's a shame that there are certain people who want us to lose there so that it makes others look bad at any cost to the country. There have been many unpopular wars fought and won against the fact that many people were opposed to them. Just reread through history. It's there if you look.

[Frankenscott]

Sternn's quite the armchair quarterback, Ireland's too far gone for him to try to address their problems so he picks moot arguments about subjects that are easy to prosecute

[ArtificialOne]

Good One Frankenscott
Also nice to hear from you, seems to have been awhile!!!

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

BTW. So far the new "Surge" appears to be working. Of course they are probably hiding out and waiting because they think they will leave again. But not this time, they are actually going to stay in one area and set up security detachments. The Iraqi govt also appears to be taking action also.

Once again, the various new agencies would disagree with you. The news again today reports attacks are now rising at an increased rate. Yesterday was the bloddiest day with the most U.S. troops killed in months. Today we see...

U.S.: Iraqi insurgent attacks intensifying

http://news.**********/s/ap/20070308...PswJ1AHPus0NUE

And for Pakistan. If you have an "Ungoverned" section of land in your country, why even claim it. Let others go in and mop up the mess you are hiding there (aka Taliban and Alqueida).

Thats a pretty narrow view of the politics of Pakistan. There is a reason those areas are left 'ungoverned'. The people of the nation along with the leaders there know if they stir that pot too much, there is a good possibility of a huge backlash against the Americans. Thats why you won't see much happening there, ever.

Al Sadr is mia and his people are doing nothing.

Missing? More like sitting out the 'surge'. The 'surge' put thousands of more troops in the neighborhood he lives in with specific instructions on breaking his power. Of course he went underground. He can hide out for longer than the U.S. can keep up the 'surge'. What is it? 90 days? We are talking billions more a month in costs already - the U.S. can't afford to keep the troops there for too long. All he has to do is wait a few weeks and they will go away. More importantly, they will have no touched him or his organisation.

Much like the 'insurgents' they say were all former Iraqi military members - they disappear into the population and just wait it out, picking times for perfect attacks.

Reports now say cities on the outskirts of Iraq want the US to stay and help.

The generals keep claiming this, but NBC news had two anchors there last night who also said this, and tempered the statement with the fact so far they haven't found one person who echoed this sentiment since they had been there.

It's funny how the mass media is downplaying the good news in Iraq.

It's not that they are 'downplaying' it, its that its not really news worthy compared to what else is happening. Lets say the U.S. troops build a school, or deliver grain to a town full of starving people. Thats a good story and a 'win' of sorts, however at the same time hundreds die in various high profile attacks. Which makes the news? Which in reality will have more effect on the people and course of the war?

Everyday in America, or other nations, people get fed, roads built, etc. but its not till a bomb goes off somewhere or people are shot that make the news. Not because its being 'downplayed' its because yeah, sure things were going right in certain areas, but those are not the defining moments that will effect the future.

Like when there is a school shooting - no one talks about the fact the school had a great science lab, a brilliant cafeteria, and the teachers were all loved by all - thats not the story and not what, at that point, will have a long standing effect on the people there.

It's a shame that there are certain people who want us to lose there so that it makes others look bad at any cost to the country. There have been many unpopular wars fought and won against the fact that many people were opposed to them. Just reread through history. It's there if you look.

All wars had people who opposed them. The difference this time is bush has invaded a sovern nation on false pretenses, even had his own aides lie about it, now members of his cabinet have been convicted in covering up various scandals - all for what? In the end, the good is supposed to out weight the bad in a war - there is supposed to be some type of gain for the country. What exact has America gained or what do they stand to gain?

Without clear goals and the truth of the fact the government lied coming out more and more every day (i.e. Libby conviction), people now see the war as what it is - a money making endevour for a select group of elitists in the defense and oil industries, being paid for by the tax payers in blood and money.

[ArtificialOne]

First off libby wasn't convicted for disclosing the name just lieing about it. I would also like to see the media attack the people who leaked far worse information about how we gather the intel to track these people. (It will never be done because they are democrats, if it was reps they'd already be on the rack) It was also reported that Valerie's husband disclosed her name in a book he wrote many years ago.

I think anyone who discloses classified info regardless of which side of the line they stand should be dealt with.

ALthough the past few days ahve been very violent, you need to look at the type of violence. Death squads and kidknappings are way down. General crime is way down and so is many other simple crimes. The reason the last few days have been bad is due to the religious festival going on this week.

I would also argue that they are downplaying the good news. Why?because of their bias and the fact that violence sells. This media will do anything to see the current admin look bad. It's just selling.

As for proffiteering. Of course certain industries will make out good. It's like having a big dinner and feeding the dog some scraps. They aren't at the table but they still get fed. Or more approrietly, it's like repairing your car or house. You have people doing the job and buying parts, and the parts makers and such get paid because the mechanic..etc. is doing the job. Doesn't mean there's a big conspiracy. It's just the way the world works.

What have we to gain by this war? Hopefully freedom for a people who've been opressed for more years than many of us have been alive and maybe a good allie in the area. A good friendship always has perks, doesn't mean you are using that person and such.

And you are right, the good stuff isn't making the news because it won't sell. Neve has and never will. People want to see that others have it worse than they do. It makes them feel better deep down.

And I think victory has already happened. We got rid of Saddam, we set up a government, the people have a say. If they can't take care of themselves, obvious because they never overthrew saddam, why is it our fault? You can teach people to do things but eventually have to let them go. It's like having a 30yr old kid in the basement. It comes a point where it's their responsibility, and they are responsible, not you.

I just think we are beating a dead horse. Progress has been made to train more troops and get the government going better, and thats all been done.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

First off libby wasn't convicted for disclosing the name just lieing about it. I would also like to see the media attack the people who leaked far worse information about how we gather the intel to track these people. (It will never be done because they are democrats, if it was reps they'd already be on the rack) It was also reported that Valerie's husband disclosed her name in a book he wrote many years ago.

If that were true he wouldn't have been convicted, and there wouldn't have been an investigation.

The funniest part is once again watching bush lie. And I quote 'anyone within my administration that took part in the leak will be fired', that was of course before the investigation.

ALthough the past few days ahve been very violent, you need to look at the type of violence. Death squads and kidknappings are way down. General crime is way down and so is many other simple crimes. The reason the last few days have been bad is due to the religious festival going on this week.

Really? Where are you getting this information, as I watch the U.S. news NBC/CBS/ABC as well as monitor the news wires, as you may have noticed, and I have yet to see ANY evidence of your claims.

I would also argue that they are downplaying the good news. Why?because of their bias and the fact that violence sells. This media will do anything to see the current admin look bad. It's just selling.

As far as your other rosy outlooks, I'll put it to you like this...

The U.S. military and the bush administration want credit for shit they were already supposed to do. There was SUPPOSED to be peace, law, order, etc. Now that they decide, after securing the oil fields, they want to help the people, its too little to late.

Furthermore, they want credit for building schools, delivering food to villiages, etc., but what they AREN'T saying is that THEY blew up those schools, wrecked the villages, destroyed the crops - and now want credit for fixing it.

I mean, they come into villages, level them, kill off half the population, then rebuild a school and think people should be throwing flowers at them.

It's like a story I read on Al Jezzera the other day where the troops were run out of a village where they had just installed a well. They were angry at the villagers.

What they somehow can't grasp is they came into that village, killed off hundreds of men, women, and children - wiped out their crops, and then a few years later come back and dig a well and expect the people to be happy with them.

Let me ask you - someone comes to your house and kills off your family, half of your friends in your town/city and then offers you say a well or builds a new school in your neighborhood - that make it alright?

[ArtificialOne]

Your bias is completely blinding you. Try to look at things more objectively.

And the last place you should get your news is Al Jeezera.

[Binkie]

He didn't get that bit of information from al-Jazeera. Not the real one, anyways. I read their English site daily and there was no such story.

[CptSternn]

It was on all day just a couple days back. They even had those info pop ups on the telly. You do get Al Jezeera on your local telly now don't you?

To further my point...

Pentagon struggles to find fresh troops

http://news.**********/s/ap/20070310....S706VMKis0NUE

WASHINGTON - Military leaders are struggling to choose Army units to stay in
Iraq and
Afghanistan longer or go there earlier than planned, but five years of war have made fresh troops harder to find.

"There have been about 30 percent more offensive actions and attacks'
[/i]

I could continue on about how now they are forgoing desert training fior all new recruits as they need them so bad they don't even have time to train them - they are sending them into a desert war zone for 'on the job' training. Like Vietnam - handing them a gun and sendning them into battle, so they can come home to a rat infested roach motel after getting their legs blown off a few days later.

The irony I'm seeing is the bush administration said they were going to listen to the Iraq Study group. That group said an immediate reduction of troops was needed. So far, the bush admin has done the exact opposite of every point listed by that group. Makes you think they still aren't listening and are going to run the military and country into the ground trying to win an unwinnable war.

[Binkie]

Oh, I see. You were reading the TV the other day. Pop ups, huh? Don't knwo what the hell you're talking about. I've watched the program online. Sure you weren't watching VH1's, "Pop Up Videos?" Were they little bubbles with info in them that sprang up randomly?

[CptSternn]

Actually on Sky systems, its a satellite provider here in Ireland and the UK, they have various buttons on the remote for special features. We are light years ahead of U.S. systems, much like our phone networks, due to the fact we don't have big business stifling competition.

If you press the red button, you get a list of options during new casts - for more video about the current segment, to online polls, and more. Our tv systems are directly linked through the net and allow on demand video and many more brilliant features.

So to answer your question, yes, I did press a button a a list of topics appeared over the video with more information.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/digital/tv/tv_interactive.shtml

A little interactive demo there so you can see what your missing.

I could go into how our phones offer ten times the number of features you can get in the states - for example the phones seen in the Matrix films were never available in the states due to the features they offered. Our mobiles here offer satellite TV service, wireless broadband, and more.

But I digress.

I found this today, which echos the same thing I posted earlier...

Mission impossible

The US decision to send an extra 2,200 military police to Iraq to join the 'surge' smacks of a king-sized muddle.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/..._commande.html

Senior advisers to US commander General David Petraeus say Bush's last-chance, fingers-crossed "surge" to secure Baghdad has hardly begun and is evolving every day. That's in the nature of military plans in combat zones, they say. Stuff happens, things change.

But the decision to send an extra 2,200 military police to Iraq, coming on top of Pentagon suggestions that up to 7,000 more regular soldiers may be required, coming on top of the 21,500 troops already sent or on their way, coming on top of the 135,000 or so already there smacks, at best, of a lack of up-front planning - and at worst, of king-sized muddle.

Critics of the surge, and opponents of the war, will immediately cry "mission creep". To them, Bush's decision to ignore the Baker-Hamilton Iraq Study Group and build up, rather than draw down, in Iraq was characteristically perverse. It looked for all the world like a typically irresponsible, political "up yours" from the most incompetent American president in living memory.

In any case, the initial reinforcement of 21,500 appeared to be an arbitrary figure, dictated more by the availability of suitably high calibre troops than by requirements on the ground. Petraeus's own counter-insurgency doctrine calls for optimum ratios of one soldier to 50 non-combatants. On that basis, he is way short in Baghdad, even if the reinforcement rises to 30,000 plus.

And given the Karbala carnage this week, and other random acts of horror, it seems logical to assume that US troop numbers will only continue to rise - especially since the British, and other coalition allies, are slipping away just as fast as they dare.

Take that plus suggestions from a senior commander in Iraq that the surge may become a super-surge and be extended to February next year, rather than last the expected six months, and it really does look like Bush is determined to get them, us and just about everybody else killed - which to be honest, is what one has always secretly suspected.

In short, mission creep could become mission charge, even though most Americans, and most of the world, believe it is mission impossible.


Like the 991 study group, the bush administration organised it, let it makes its proporsals, then ignored them. Same thing is now being done for the Iraq study group. They get the best minds on each side of the debate to work together for a solution the bush administration flatly ignores.

[Binkie]

BBCi's news headlines come from the BBC news network, not al-Jazeera. Nice try though. Maybe you can photoshop me a screenshot of the interactive al-Jazeera stories that "pop up" on your screen. Can you do that? I'll bet you can't.

I mean if you can produce any record of this news story, that'd be amazing. Honestly.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Binkie

BBCi's news headlines come from the BBC news network, not al-Jazeera. Nice try though. Maybe you can photoshop me a screenshot of the interactive al-Jazeera stories that "pop up" on your screen. Can you do that? I'll bet you can't.

I mean if you can produce any record of this news story, that'd be amazing. Honestly.

Are you real this thick? ALL channels have the interactive option here, something anyone from Ireland/UK can tell you. Al Jezzera has an interactive option exactly like BBCi, SkyNews, CNN (well, CNN here), however none of them have a nice demo on their website. I was providing the BBC link with the nice interactive flash demo so you could see exactly what ALL channels look like here with the 'red button' options.

Even our standard RTE channels (equal to NBC/CBS/ABC in the states) have interactive sites linked so when you press the red button you get full menus, video, etc. It really is a nice system, and obviously something (else) you know nothing about.

http://business.sky.com/czone_products_qa.asp#q10

But once again, good try at attempting to take us off topic.

I don't know which article I found today was more interesting.

I mean this one...

Halliburton will move HQ to Dubai

http://news.**********/s/ap/emirates...JvuNYyt3Ws0NUE

...Federal investigators last month alleged Halliburton was responsible for $2.7 billion of the $10 billion in contractor waste and overcharging in Iraq.

Halliburton last month announced a 40-percent decline in fourth-quarter profit, despite heavy demand for its oil field equipment and personnel.

*snip*

Halliburton is leaving the states. Why? Could it be since they were called out on overcharging and forced to compete with other bidders their profits have dropped 40%? Is it because they know there soon will be a backlash once tax payers find out exactly how much they fleeced them for? Or is it because they don't want to pay any tax to Americans on the money they have so far earned from the Iraq war? Either way, it's funny to see them now after taking in record profits during this illegal war now going to 'jump ship' before anyone challenges their profits in court, and before they have to pay out taxes to the American government.

Or was the most interesting article today the fact the pentagon is now working on their RETREAT plans for Iraq? Yes, thats right - headlines in every major paper and news wire read...

US military plans Iraq pullout in case 'surge' fails

http://news.**********/s/afp/2007031...RGAp1K5DAb.3QA

WASHINGTON (AFP) -
Pentagon planners have begun work on a fallback position for
Iraq that includes a phased pullout of US troops in case the current "surge" strategy fails or is undercut by Congress, a newspaper reported Monday.

'Fallback position' like 'person of interest' or 'enemy combatant' - one of those new 'americanism' created by the bush administration that says one thing and means another. It's just a fancy way to say retreat.

[Binkie]

Good, you won't mind getting a screenshot of the al-Jazeera headlines that "pop up" on your interactive TV, now will you? Pretty easy. You just take a camera, point it at the TV, and take a picture.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Binkie

Good, you won't mind getting a screenshot of the al-Jazeera headlines that "pop up" on your interactive TV, now will you? Pretty easy. You just take a camera, point it at the TV, and take a picture.

Anyone with Sky can verify this. I'm not wasting my time trying to prove to a less informed person like yerself how a feckin' telly works.

But more to the point our press release for the day. Anyone can attend - all major news agencies will be here so if you have any questions email me off list. We will be meeting in Shannon for interviews with RTE prior to the event. Contact me for more information.

Press release: 15 03 07

Tuesday 20th of March of next week marks the fourth anniversary of the American led invasion of Iraq. To mark this dark occasion Cosantori Siochana are holding a commemoration at the site of the old customs post on the entrance at Shannon Airport. This event will happen at 4pm Bank Holiday Monday 19th of March.

This anniversary is also the date the Irish government officially joined the “Coalition of the Willing”. Day X marked the Ahern regime dismissed Ireland’s traditional neutrality to support the Gorge W. Bush’s war of terror on the people of Iraq and Afghanistan. This was dark day in Ireland’s history which has added to the ever growing chasm between the cultures of the world.

This shameful act by many of our politicians has been used to excuse many despicable deeds including Extraordinary Rendition. Where once the nation of Ireland was held in high esteem Rosin Dubh is now chastised for being complicit in these heinous activities by America’s dark forces. While always willing to accept dubious “assurances” Bertie Ahern has provided the US Military with a blank cheque. This is just anther chapter of Ahern’s shameful legacy to Irish and world politics.

A wreath will be placed near the entrance of Shannon Airport by Deirdre Clancy. Last August Deirdre Clancy found not guilty of criminal damage at Shannon Airport. As part of the group known as the Pit-Stop Ploughshares Deirdre was vindicated after causing over €1.5 million in to a US Navy Warplane. The group decommissioned this Boeing 737 with a hammers and a mattock.

Human rights and anti-war campaigner, Senator David Norris, has been invited to present a bowl of shamrock to a representative of the Iraqi community in Ireland. This shamrock as a symbol of our nation will mark our long standing relationship with the people of this region. During the “Great famine”, when many died or emigrated, the people of Mesopotamia sent ship loads of food to ease Ireland’s suffering.

[Binkie]

In other words you can't get a screen shot or verify any of this. Such a simple task and you're completely unable to perform it. Hmmm... what's that tell you?

Hey, if you have absolutely nothing to back that story up anywhere at all and have no creditable sources that have documented such an event, just say so. Just admit: Hey, this is a story only I've seen and these al-Jazeera interactive pop-ups are exclusive to only my television. Is that so hard? Sure it sounds ridiculous, but hey, that's what you are.

[CptSternn]

Lets recap -

Are you opposed or do you still fervently support this war? You seem to try and derail the topic at each chance you get, seeings how you have little to say that ever matters, much like IRL, so you still claiming WMD's?

The thing that gets me is you have done feck all to help the alleged troops you support. What? Posting a few pro-war articles on a gothic discussion forum makes you a war hero? Heh, I love the fact your here, because it means your not out doing anything productive.

I mean, seriously, did you check my media directory or see my YouTube clips. I do things on a weekly/monthly basis that have real effect on the events that happen. You do feck all.

Which is why, when the yanks run from the Iraq conflict, I will feel I have made a difference, where as you - probably won't care as you have done nothing either way.

Good to know people like you spend so much time bitching in cyberspace and not acting in the real world. Keeps idiots like you out of government and policy making.

You made the claim that at the start of the war you tried to enlist, but were 'denied' because of your pre-existing 'mental condition'. Now that they are wavering all the cannon fodder in, whats your excuse?

[ArtificialOne]

Lets see stern,

I doubt very much you contribute anything to american culture, let allone humanity.

If someone tries to make a difference and fails. They did more than 99.89% of most people then.

Some of us still support the war. Doesn't mean we like it, or that it's going well. Doesn't mean we should give up because a few people (dems) want to turn tail and run.

Since you might have never done this beacuse you're still living with mom and dad in their basement, I'll give you a little info. Some of us know, that regardless of the circumstances that lead you to a bad position, you have to fix it. If that means great sacrifice so be it.

I think not enough people are paying the price. I'd like to see a draft maybe, and bring back war bonds. I think that most western countries have become too decadent and lazy. No one wants to work anyhting through to the end anymore. Most kids don't leave their parents home till much later now, or drag up massive debt earlier. Most western countries no longer know what it takes to achieve what we have now.

And before you claim "I" have done nothing to support our troops. I often donate at least ten bucks to the USO whenever I pass their booth. I also vote on every ballat that comes out in the elections for bills and such that give pay rises and benefits to them.

Criticising the mission and being anti war does nothing for their moral. If you have even once, and I mean once, talked to a real life soldier. They'll say they just wish the blathering would stop. Just like any other job or career in the world, it's hard to get it done when people are constantly whining and second geussing your job.

[Drake Dun]

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

I think not enough people are paying the price. I'd like to see a draft maybe, and bring back war bonds.

If your war of conquest is so important to you, you can go off to murder people and get killed yourself. How dare you even suggest a draft?

No murder or conquest in my name, or by my hand.

Drake

[ArtificialOne]

You say you're in tokyo, japan. So why are you having an opinion on an american draft.

And you seem to have allot in common with stern...?
Funny how you two often appear in such a close time frame....

Also, I've done my duty. You?

[dark_dragon_of_ice]

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

Lets see stern,

I doubt very much you contribute anything to american culture, let allone humanity.

Don't they conflict ?

[Binkie]

Let's recap on what was relevant in your last post, Sternn:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

...

Paraphrased, of course. Looks like you can't provide any information on this non-existant news story that only your TV was able to view and only you saw. Hmmm... Don't let that stop you from typing though. Like with every other mistake in your life, you just run from it rather than facing it head on.

[Drake Dun]

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

You say you're in tokyo, japan. So why are you having an opinion on an american draft.

1) I am an American citizen and would be subject to a draft, despite my long term residency in Japan.

2) I wouldn't want to see people, possibly including family and friends back home, forced to go kill and die for a someone else's lies and dreams of hegemony.

And you seem to have allot in common with stern...?
Funny how you two often appear in such a close time frame....

*pulls off rubber Drake mask to reveal Sternn's face*

Feck! The shenanigan's over, is it noo. I'da gotten away wit it too, t'weren't fer ye meddlin' kids.

Damn! I thought I could pull off a nice Irish accent, but no luck. Okay, the REAL truth is that I am not Sternn. We are separate individuals, both among many operating cooperatively but independently under the auspices of the Zioinist Occupied Government. We normally do a very good job of keeping the connection hidden, but we leave little signs so that those of our kind (pederasts, Jews, communists, Martian Elvis impersonators, et. al) can find our secret network.

For example, you will notice that Sternn and I both criticize the war in Iraq. This should be a dead giveaway. But there's more... think about it. Ireland. Island country. Japan. ISLAND COUNTRY. Also, if you take the name "Drake Dun" and take out all of the letters except the A, R, E, and N, and then change the order of the R and E, and then add a whole bunch of other letters, you get CAPTAIN STERNN. All of our super secret names are interrelated in this way, so that we can recognize each other.

And I thought they were joking when they started drawing parallels between American thought patterns under Bush and those during the McCarthy era.

Also, I've done my duty. You?

If you're talking about serving in the armed forces of the United States, no. Why, have we abandoned the Iraq topic and moved on to one in which this question is somehow relevant?

Drake

[ArtificialOne]

Reread through some of my posts, the answer you are looking for is there.

And, you made the assumption I would not do something I already have done.

[Drake Dun]

I dug backward in this thread three pages or so, and did not find what you are talking about. I am not going on a wild goose chase all over Gothic.net. Could you just tell me what you are talking about?

Drake