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Music Finally, an entire forum devoted to talking about Doktor Avalanche, the drum machine for the Sisters of Mercy. You can talk about other bands, or other members of that band, too, if you want to be UNCOOL.

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Old 07-30-2015, 08:21 AM   #1
Bellasaria
 
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Trad goths dissing Marilyn Manson all the time?

''He's a poser''
''MM is not really goth''
''His fans are pathetic little wannabe 12-year-olds''
''He makes shitty music''

first of all, i really don't see the point in this as he has not once stated that he is 'goth', nor did he label himself as anything else; it's just that some of his fans mistake his badassism (this clearly isn't a word haha) for gothic behavior (i seriously suck at making phrases omg)
and yes, i agree, he does have pathetic little wannabe 12-year-olds as fans, but not all of them are and you shouldn't let something like that cloud your judgement.
second of all, who are you to judge his music? he is an artist and has a right to express himself however the f*ck he wants. and i can assure you that if you were in the least bit creative, you would at least like something about his work. if not the music, the lyrics would be appealing to you. if not the lyrics, you would see beauty in his music videos.

i know that everyone has their own taste in music, but please stop being ignorant pricks, thank you.
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Old 09-21-2015, 06:48 AM   #2
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His cover of The Eurythmics Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This) is simply awesome, better than the original in my honest opinion...
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Old 09-29-2015, 06:20 PM   #3
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I think music is subjective 100%. I would not call his music "goth", it's kind of like hard rock. There will always be people hating on everything unfortunately. I like his song "Tourniquet", other than that I don't care for his music, but that's just my opinion.
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Old 09-30-2015, 01:40 AM   #4
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Agree totally, music like any form of art is totally subjective and just because one person doesn't like it, it doesn't make it rubbish. He is definitely not goth, but then there are so many bands beloved by us Goths that are not goth in themselves. I would say he is shock rock like Alice Cooper...
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:19 PM   #5
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I fucking love him <3
The Pale Emperor is sick!
Anyone dissing Manson will get a size 5 New Rock up the ass!
Or a high 5 in the face, with a chair!
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Old 11-17-2015, 01:31 AM   #6
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I love Marilyn Manson!!! The whole " if you like this you are a poser" mindset is ridiculous!! I guess i must not be a "real goth" because i listen to his music and *gasp* bought a jacket from hot topic!!!
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Old 11-19-2015, 01:12 AM   #7
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*claps & applauds* Well said Rats!
I fucking love you! <3
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:41 AM   #8
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Pray tell, what is all the never ending fuss about Mr Manson? I've often had cause to look up from the keyboard of my harpsichord when I've been right in the middle of some particularly sublime piece by Couperin, at the screen of my lap-top ( yes quite a weird juxtaposition of technologies I know) to see yet another anti-Marilyn Manson tirade. He seems to me a most inofensive old crooner so let's say we leave him alone and tackle more malignant hell-spawn like Beeeb-hhhaaa, beee-eeb-ah. Oh, it's no good, I can't even bring myself to say his name.
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Old 11-19-2015, 03:01 PM   #9
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Hear, hear! I most cordially agree
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Old 11-19-2015, 03:11 PM   #10
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It's more to do with the idea of anti-association. Goth individuals generally deal with a lot of social stigma. Some of this includes into seeing us as 12-year old's wearing black because it's cool and Manson, omg.

Further down the train others hate him because their peers do. So, without forming their own contrived and pointless opinions on musical figures, they cheerily leap onto the BS wagon. Which is coincidentally connected to a train I guess? I guess my metaphors got a little... 'derailed'.


Then there is the third part to this. People hate him because it's either cool or trendy to. Take the Justin Beiber hate for example. No one should even give a shit about a crappy musician, but it's become socially trendy to hate him. Kind of like a meme in and of it's self. Or, they hate him (Manson) because he is well received, much like the hipster mentality that disliking a popular figure makes one better than the masses.

So there you go, it's a three way reach around of trivial pointlessness.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormbringer View Post
Pray tell, what is all the never ending fuss about Mr Manson? I've often had cause to look up from the keyboard of my harpsichord when I've been right in the middle of some particularly sublime piece by Couperin, at the screen of my lap-top ( yes quite a weird juxtaposition of technologies I know) to see yet another anti-Marilyn Manson tirade. He seems to me a most inofensive old crooner so let's say we leave him alone and tackle more malignant hell-spawn like Beeeb-hhhaaa, beee-eeb-ah. Oh, it's no good, I can't even bring myself to say his name.
Because he looks different and is very politically incorrect. Not being the same as everyone else is scary, people are scared of what they don't know. And all people who are pale and wear black lipstic are obviously Satan worshippers . There was Colombine that he was blamed for and that is where it all started.
Don't say the name!!!!
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Old 11-20-2015, 10:05 AM   #12
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Total truths there
You've hit nails on heads loves!
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Old 11-20-2015, 03:12 PM   #13
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If I May...

When Manson first showed up on the scene I was not impressed. I, like a lot of my 'Kindred' (who were not all 'Goths', but an array of different individuals) was skeptical, and saw how Mr. Manson's almost overnight legion of followers could potentially worsen the already annoying stereotypes we faced on a daily basis.

Now, It's not that I didn't like some of His/Their music.
I just doubted the sincerity of it.
And I guess, by extension, the sincerity of his fans.

But then I met this girl...
And one night, out of nowhere, she invited me to go to a local Manson show.
Skeptical of the younger generation, I went expecting to feel out of place.
BUT instead, it was Honestly a Great show. The pit was so brutal I could not force my way into it, and by the end of the show the crowd was throwing 55 gallon trash cans all over the venue, And had quite literally tore the bar apart.
When we left that night I had a small puncture wound in my shoulder, and someone else's blood all over my pants and boots. It was actually pretty damn hardcore! Reminded me of those old punk shows... Back in the Day.

The band performance was great. Tight, Energetic, and Entertaining.
After that show, I had a whole new appreciation of Marilyn Manson, and their music.
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Old 11-21-2015, 05:40 AM   #14
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I hear ya ..
In the early days I was skeptical, but intrigued.
He's grown better with age? I dig his intelligence and find him honest.
Both are refreshing.
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Old 11-22-2015, 11:05 AM   #15
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I am like the opposite I actually bought the very first Manson cassette when it first came out,Portrait Of An American Family, and no one heard of it. It is ok. At the time was going to Electric Hellfire Club shows and thats whole scene.
I think the thing is He was trying to get on the radio. It is subversive, and he did a good job at that. I think He would be a awesome person to hang out with. That means I do not have to like his music.
I think someone who is traditional is not trying to get on the radio. I think a lot of it has to do with the 90's in general. And the whole 'big sell out'.
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Old 11-22-2015, 12:56 PM   #16
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I like his voice, his speaking voice .. nice, soothing?
In comparison to many other famous musicians, I find him to be intelligent.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:39 AM   #17
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so I found this Mr. Oizo's(Dupieux) movie starring Manson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrong_Cops
https://youtu.be/o5EVSFyi4fI
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:05 AM   #18
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Well, he doesn't technically make gothic music, and most people outside of our culture associate him with it because they don't know any better. That's the only real problem, and it's why we say things like that.
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Old 03-02-2016, 06:25 PM   #19
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I like the early Marilyn Manson music. After 90s he became more shitty. The pale emperor is better. I classify him in indus rock. Just my advice
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Old 01-17-2023, 07:02 PM   #20
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Marilyn Manson is a musical genius, and I've always been a fan, although his Music isn't actually officially "Goth", it has some of the aesthetics of it in the Vocals and Styles applied to his music, but it's mostly Hard / Industrial Rock.

But as far as the dislike for Marilyn Manson in the Goth scene, there is actually somewhat of a valid reason for it, but it had more to do with the "Mansonite Fans" who were basically like the Cult Followers which would actually cause mayhem and all kinds of problems when entering the Goth Clubs in some cities.

They became such a menace with things they did, that they actually even became banned or thrown out of the clubs if they created problems.

The Mansonite Cult Following was kind of like the "Juggalos / Juggalettes" Cult following for Insane Clown Posse.

But I see nothing wrong with liking Marilyn Mason as an Artist or Musician, but the problem was more with the crowds at the time who thought Goth music were bands like Marilyn Manson and all the Nu Metal / Hardcore Bands that actually had absolutely nothing to do with Goth Music. As such, it was giving the Goth Scene a bad reputation and trying to also confuse people as to what real Goth music was.

So I'd say it's fine if someone happens to like them, and they are Goth, provided they understand and listen to what Traditional Goth music is and recognize the difference.
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Old 12-05-2023, 05:49 AM   #21
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i love manson idgaf what he is hes so unique just like his music and thats what i love
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