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Old 01-17-2013, 02:44 PM   #1
Deadmanwalking_05
 
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Misunderstanding the B.O.R. and.....

The stupidity of those that try to educate idiots about their rights,the PM's between myself and Ape Descendant

Hey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I'm getting at is the the rights contained in the B.O.R. apply to all citizens,if it be one group or another.

And as crazy as it sounds,there is no one group that is held higher than another in those documents.

The B.O.R. covers all rights that are with us from birth.

The founders were very smart men in that they dealt with outlining the protection of basic human rights,because from those basic rights all other things grow.

Think about that for awhile and see where such applies.

I know you aren't stupid ,though I go on about such in the forum.

Look at what is mentioned in the B.O.R. and think about what isn't listed in the B.O.R.

Then get back to me.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:47 PM   #2
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A.D.'s response

"The Bill of Rights doesn't dictate how we treat each other in social situations, it doesn't protect against the inequalities inherent in social bias. This is more subtle than that.

Most of the change that needs to happen can't be and shouldn't be legislated. It needs to be social change, people need to think about and discuss the actual problems at hand. You can't force someone to change their mind however, through thoughtful discussion (easier said than done) people can be persuaded.

Love the appeal to my ego, but its not really necessary, the stupidest person can have good, valid points and the smartest person can be dead wrong. Its all a matter of effort and education."
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:48 PM   #3
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Yes it does,the B.O.R. protects the rights of individuals,because infringment of the rights of one by another is a capital crime,if you understand that the B.O.R. is in fact the law of the land.

Also it wasn't an appeal to your ego,because if I thought you were stupid I wouldn't be wasting my time trying to talk to you.

I am being honest,I don't think you're stupid,I just think that you need to fully understand how the B.O.R. works.


Which is why I'm talking to you instead of throwing insults.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:49 PM   #4
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A.D.'s 2nd response

The purpose of the Bill of Rights is to protect the people from the government.

It covers:

1. free speech/press
2. arms
3. not having to quarter soldiers in one's home
4. unreasonable search and seizure of person/property
5. the right not to incriminate one self and the right to due process
6. criminal trial by jury
7. civil trial by jury
8. disallows cruel/unusual punishment
9. the right to have rights not previously listed
10. allows states and the people to reserve rights not listed

Is there a point you're trying to make?

The whole thing is set up so that people are able to amend it to cover things the founding fathers forgot... a guarantee for people not to be denied the right to vote due to pesky things like having been owned by another person or being born without a penis.

People were allowed to own other people up until the 13th amendment was ratified in 1865, which ended the institution of slavery (except as a punishment for convicted criminals). Five years had passed before any one bothered to at least guarantee men right to vote regardless of race or prior servitude in the 15th amendment which was ratified in 1870.

The whole 144 years from 1776 to 1920 half of the U.S. adult population was not allowed to vote, until the 19th amendment banned voter discrimination on account of sex.

The Bill of Rights was a good start, but people need to declare and protect their rights.

So aside from a compulsion to bring up the first 10 amendments to the U.S. constitution is there a point you're getting to?
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:51 PM   #5
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You aren't adressing the fact that individuals can be protected from other individuals through the use of the B.O.R.

The issues that are so hot button today weren't addressed in the B.O.R. for a reason (because as stated it was put in place to stop our government from becoming tyrannical).

You are halfway at the answer though.

If said document is meant to restrain the government,it can (and is currently being argued) that it also restrains against abuses by an individual.

Because if a government can't abuse an individuals rights,how can another individual be allowed to abuse the rights of someone they don't like?

Also you are getting bogged down by the history and how the document currently came to be instead of adressing it as it stands now.

As such you aren't thinking of it as a living document,and are dismissing what it already affords due to past social conflicts.

As it stands now (to my knowledge) there is nothing that says one gender can't marry the same gender,or the one person has to give up control of their body to the state.

Read what is said and apply that to the current issues we face as a nation today and you will find that there is no need for further amendments because the protections already exist as the B.O.R is now,all one needs to do is apply them in the proper context.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:53 PM   #6
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A.D.'s 3rd response

My whole fucking argument is that the Constitution is a living document. And that its our job as citizens to help ensure that rights are maintained and protected.

I'm not bogged down with history. Though it seems you feel like history bogs down the conversation. If you don't wish to have relevant historical references discussed, I suggest you try talking to some one else. The issues that I tend to spend the most time addressing have a deep and complicated history the consequences of which have had a lasting impact to this day.

I take it you've never heard of DOMA, which says for inter-state and federal purposes marriage is only recognized between one man and one woman. The state I live in doesn't recognize gay marriage either so that's a double-no here.

Also, you seem to be ignoring the reasons for the fight for reproductive rights. Try Educating yourself with some legal stuff like the Comstok laws, and check out Roe v. Wade. Want some more modern stuff? Check out the Person-hood movement. Its easy to ignore these issues if you can't get pregnant, but it takes a special kind of person to pretend they don't exist.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:56 PM   #7
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I'm not saying that such issues don't exist,please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Also try not to focus on me being a different gender than you and work with the fact that we are both human beings and citizens of the U.S. (Because that is what gets such discussions derailed by division).

You overlooked something that is very important when you posted the listed amendments.

Look at the first 10 Amendments carefully,and let me know if you see what I see.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:57 PM   #8
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A.D.'s 4th Response

If you've got a point, make it. My patience is wearing thin.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:59 PM   #9
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I'm not just trying to make a point I'm trying to get you to see it for yourself.

Question: Which of the first 10 Amendments of the B.O.R. states "The right to have rights not previously listed"

You're going to kick yourself mentally when you find it and think about the application of such when used in the proper context.

Proper context = As long as no one elses individual rights are infringed upon.

I'll wait for your reply.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:01 PM   #10
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A.D.'s 5th response

We're done with this.

I gave you a chance to show me that you could be decent conversation and gave you a chance to make a point that you never got around to stating.

So far all you've offered are excuses, complaints, vagueness and your pusillanimous attempts to limit the conversation to your very narrow comfort zone.

I have been patient and given you a chance to say your bit. Now kindly stay out of my inbox. Don't pm me any more.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:04 PM   #11
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And from the conversation we see who couldn't be civil in this conversation.

She even typed out the point I was trying to show her,but it wasn't really looked at much less given any thought and dismissed.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:14 PM   #12
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The meaning of the 9th Amendment and it's application...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8F1hMGeOyg
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:00 PM   #13
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Miss Ape and I disagree on some stuff, but what you did here is not cool.

I know it's too much to ask for, but I wish this forum could grow up and leave the bullshit antagonistic trolling out.

There are ways to disagree without resorting to childish tantrums.

This place used to be fun, once.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Miss Ape and I disagree on some stuff, but what you did here is not cool.

I know it's too much to ask for, but I wish this forum could grow up and leave the bullshit antagonistic trolling out.

There are ways to disagree without resorting to childish tantrums.

This place used to be fun, once.
Why?

All I did was show the unedited conversation to keep things honest.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:24 PM   #15
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Because sharing private messages is in poor taste.

People passing around your information or whatever is in poor taste, haranguing you over unrelated forum posts and getting uninvolved parties involved is in poor taste, and what you did there to Ape was also in poor taste.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:29 PM   #16
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Because sharing private messages is in poor taste.

People passing around your information or whatever is in poor taste, haranguing you over unrelated forum posts and getting uninvolved parties involved is in poor taste, and what you did there to Ape was also in poor taste.
Whats poor taste about posting the truth insteading of trying to lie about personal threats that didn't happen?
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Because sharing private messages is in poor taste.

People passing around your information or whatever is in poor taste, haranguing you over unrelated forum posts and getting uninvolved parties involved is in poor taste, and what you did there to Ape was also in poor taste.
In fact what I have shown by posting this conversation is that she doesn't want real answers to the problems,she only wants to continue complaining.

She wants special "privilages" instead of using the rights that already exist in the founding documents.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:07 PM   #18
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As far as DOMA section 3,all one or more need to do is challenge it in court (think class action lawsuit with backing by the 9th Amendment).

PROBLEM...FUCKING....SOLVED!
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:54 PM   #19
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Not acceptable behaviour.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:57 PM   #20
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What the fuck am I reading??
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:01 AM   #21
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Can anyone explain to me how the BOR is somehow a magical document that is so magical that anyone that reads it is already compelled to be lawful and that it actually in fact DOES exactly as it says?

Honestly. I had no idea that the founding fucking fathers were fucking wizards. Well that actually might explain some things like the KKK calling certain members wizards and dragons.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:42 AM   #22
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Can anyone explain to me how the BOR is somehow a magical document that is so magical that anyone that reads it is already compelled to be lawful and that it actually in fact DOES exactly as it says?

Honestly. I had no idea that the founding fucking fathers were fucking wizards. Well that actually might explain some things like the KKK calling certain members wizards and dragons.
It isn't a "Magical"document,just a highly practical one.

The section of the DOMA that I pointed out has been ruled to be unconstitutional,and a court challenge is a viable option.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:07 PM   #23
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Obviously it's not a magical piece of paper. My point was that it really only is a piece of paper.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:10 PM   #24
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Obviously it's not a magical piece of paper. My point was that it really only is a piece of paper.
Rights are only rights if you are willing to fight for them.

And

If you aren't willing to fight for them they don't exist.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:08 PM   #25
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Yeah. Which kind of brings up the rest of my point. The more people have to fight for their rights, the less important an agreed upon list of rights by some ancient dudes becomes.

The world is changing and I kind of see the BOR standing in the way or being a distraction to achieving more rights for the people.

Honestly, I still don't understand why people are so opposed to marriage equality. It doesn't really add up cause I am sure they have the sense to see why it's at least fair.
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