Meat.

[JCC]

http://www.meat.org/

Ignore the fact that it's by PETA (they're cunts) and watch it. I expect all of you to go Vegan, or I'll personally slap each one of you in the chops.

[LetheanBlacklight]

I'm not going vegan

[jack_the_knife]

Me neither, although I do find this video disgusting.

[Toy Killer]

Hot Damn!

Go ahead and slap me in the chops, but life sucks for a pig...

[honeythorn]

It is horrible. But not ALL animals are farmed in this way.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by honeythorn

It is horrible. But not ALL animals are farmed in this way.

I bet any animal you've ever eaten was.

[MollyMac]

I am predominantly vegetarian because my body cannot handle being vegan and wholly vegetarian.

But here's the deal- some people cannot do without meat be it for the flavor or because of individual nutrient absorption. Rational people understand this.

Not all animals are farmed this way. When I grew up back on the farm, out milk cows were like part of the family. The chickens were free range and always up in the cows' buisness. When we did kill a chicken for dinner, the chicken never knew what hit him.

I was shocked when I left the family farm to realize that not anaimals were tended to in our manner as well.

But being a better steward for the well-being of animals does not mean that you have to go vegan, it means to make better/more informed choices and research your food. It may also mean paying more for for many staples, which some people cannot afford during this economic crunch.

But as market is supply and demand, when the demand increases for better quality non GMO foods, and decreased on what we have been fed, the prices will likely drop as more entrepreneurs become part of the game. Until then-

You do what you can with what you have. If you want the Organic you have to pay up to twice the price. BUT- you will eat better, you will eat less. You may end up eating better quality and less cruelly rendered foods and you will also be tending to your own health and well-bveing. Cheap foods may get you by, but their hidden cost is what they do to you under the skin and in the future- they jeopardize your health.

Not all milk supports the veal industry. Take Horizon- USDA certified Organic milk has no hormones, antibiotics, or PUS in it. You can also get the Organic milk from free-range cows that can live life as a cow and not as a battery caged commodity. Same for beef. Same for eggs and chicken and so on.

But the better the naimal lives, the more you will pay. And most people put their I-tunes accounts and creature comforts over the comfort of a creaturs. That is their choice and I will not judge anyone on it. We all come to our decisions by living different experiences.

[Toy Killer]

Right, commercialism is really to blame here. Farmers being paid per cow, not on quality of per cow. I'm sure slaughterhouses are much more satisfied with a healthy, self moving cow, then the one they have to drag in and hang up to kill.

[JCC]

Murder is the worst form of torture. That applies to animals too.

[MollyMac]

No. Torture is the worst form of murder.

You can kill painlessly, or you can be Hormel.

[Toy Killer]

Without animals, our planet would starve. crop rotation won't hold up for more then three years if our planet gave up meat.

[MegearaErotica]

Have you never heard of castration? To me that seems worse than death.

[MollyMac]

Yes, it would. The point of crop rotation is the fallow field.

You can use the animals' shit as fertilizer, but that does not imply that you are using the animals for meat.

With animals being used as a fertilizer source, there would be little need to battery farm them and that alone would cut carbon and methane as well as free up more land for grain farming.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Toy Killer

Without animals, our planet would starve. crop rotation won't hold up for more then three years if our planet gave up meat.

There's non-animal fertilizer, you know.

Originally Posted by MegearaErotica

Have you never heard of castration? To me that seems worse than death.

Watch the video and you'll see them administer one on a cow. Without anaesthestic. Still want that burger?

[honeythorn]

Originally Posted by JCC

I bet any animal you've ever eaten was.

Some have been undoubtedly. Especially when I was younger and didn't know. But while I am not vegetarian, I don't eat vast amounts of meat . I dislike the taste of red meat full stop, and only occasionally eat Chicken or Tuna in pretty moderate amounts.

I think that people eat far too much meat. Many say that humans don't have the dentition for eating meat, but wether we do or not the fact is we have evolved and become accustomed to eating at least some animal protein . But now we eat far too much of it.

[JCC]

I don't think that how much you eat it matters. Killing is killing, once a week or twice a day.

[LetheanBlacklight]

Originally Posted by JCC

There's non-animal fertilizer, you know.


Watch the video and you'll see them administer one on a cow. Without anaesthestic. Still want that burger?

........yes

[JCC]

Slap round the chops coming right up!

[MollyMac]

One death is better than ten. I'd rather see people cut to two servings of meat a week as opposed to the normal 3-4 servings a day.

And then, it is better to be a more sustaining death- a large bovine that can feed many, as opposed to one chicken or fish that feeds few. It has always irked me that chickens and fish are apparently inferior to cows and pigs in that manner. Does one soul count less than another simply because it is small?

I have met many alleged vegetarians who eat chicken.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by MollyMac

But being a better steward for the well-being of animals does not mean that you have to go vegan, it means to make better/more informed choices and research your food.

True, but honestly, how many people will go and do that?
Most will only try to rationalize their consumptive lifestyles with bullshit arguments. Take the blame away from me, I don't want to change but I also don't want to feel bad about myself.

Originally Posted by JCC

I don't think that how much you eat it matters. Killing is killing, once a week or twice a day.

If you think that, then you really don't have a chance with any form of diet short of hunter/gatherer outside of society.
Do you have any idea how man rodents are massacred by the combines that go to feed both the bovine industry and the agriculture business?
You are also killing, and in a way that is no less painful than many of the animals in slaughterhouses.
The only acceptable measurement for diminishing this suffering then, becomes numbers, and a meat eater that drastically reduces their meat consumption is as ethical as you are. If he turns out to be a more informed meat-eater than most vegans, he would even be better.

[Necrophagist]

Jillian has a point there. Walk in a grassy area, and you will find that you have killed quite a large amount of insects.

[MollyMac]

Well, I did. And I am not one who likes to change.

I can assume that with the slow but steady rise of Whole Foods, Trader Joes, the Organic market becoming more mainstream, the Slow Food Movement, Local food movement, vegetarianism/veganism in general; that people ARE going out and doing that. It seems more common in areas like mine- a decent sized city flanked concentrically by farmlands, but it is spreading to my home back-40 as well.

[MollyMac]

Also, there is no sense and going whole hog to Jainism, either. It is only since th eadbent of the industrial revolution that the meat side of our omnivorous natures has caused such impact on the environment and become so blatantly and Henry Ford-like in cruelty.

If we can devolve the mechanization of slaughter and teh battery of farming and go back more yeoman, back to about a century ago when meat was consumed almost daily, and in small quantities; then we can have our cake and eat it too.

alas, that is too much fucking work. So have a side order of guily with your pus-cheese.

[Saya]

I can't watch it, I've heard of it but that sort of thing traumatizes me, after I saw Earthlings I couldn't even go near tofu meat for a few days.

But you'd be surprise how many people can watch it and not care. I remember looking up Earthlings on imdb and had people leave comments like "I watched this while eating my steak, thanks for the entertainment!" I watched it with a friend and she did stop eating meat for a while, but it didn't last long at all.

[Toy Killer]

Originally Posted by MollyMac

Yes, it would. The point of crop rotation is the fallow field.

You can use the animals' shit as fertilizer, but that does not imply that you are using the animals for meat.

With animals being used as a fertilizer source, there would be little need to battery farm them and that alone would cut carbon and methane as well as free up more land for grain farming.

That's not the concern, although a good point.

It's a matter of supply and demand, and a bit of pathology. Let's say that corn was selling really well, and was fairly cheap to buy in this completely hypothetical situation. If over half the population grows corn, then next season, less then one half can but will want to. People will make a varied choice as to the next crop to follow, but it will cost them more money to reap. Corn Prices decrease (as the popularity of the item has dropped, since people can't grow it that year), while replacement crop (we'll say wheat) prices increase, as Farmers are being forced into the next best commodity. The next season (still can't grow corn, you have to wait two seasons before full rotation), they are obliged to buy an even more expensive, less return crop. And corn prices sky rocket upwards, in anticipation for the next season.

With animals in that rotation, you can simply move cattle/sheep/etc. from one field to the next with little worry. cost of feed is all you really need to worry about. They are good for hard times, when you can't afford a new crop to produce. Take them out of the picture, you're forcing farmers to find new jobs. Less farmers means less food. Less food means starvation for lower classes. not to mention that you would be spraying more crops in your rotations, leading yourself into a better chance of genetically engineering bugs, weeds and diseases resistances, and potentially causing an epidemic of all of our food.

Animals are nessicary. They always have been, they probably always will.