Newest School Shooting, Minn.

ice · 03-21-2005, 08:10 PM

10 dead.

http://news.**********/news?tmpl=stor...chool_shooting

Electrocutioner · 03-22-2005, 03:36 AM

I feel another anti-gun rally coming on...
...and I can practically smell Michael Moor coming over the horizon...

--
The Electrocutioner

illuminatti · 03-22-2005, 05:26 AM

did they still not figure out WHY the guy shot all these people? I know that there are many insane kids roaming the world, but they still usualy have some crazy motive if they start killing people...

CptSternn · 03-22-2005, 06:47 AM

According to the news wires, he was a loner who wore all black and kept to himself. I see another assualt on goth culture heading this way before the anti-gun lobbyists hit.

'Relatives told the St. Paul Pioneer Press that Weise was a loner who usually wore black and was teased by other kids.'

http://news.**********/news?tmpl=stor...p;sid=84439559

Panther · 03-22-2005, 07:12 AM

Poor kids. Poor adults.

So senseless. So stupid.

*shakes head*

How is it that every kid who goes crazy and shoots up their classmates and family has access to the weapons to do it?

*shakes head*

it's so sad when this happens.

TeapotScar · 03-22-2005, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xnguela

one teacher, one security guard, the kid's grandparents, the kid himself... the rest were students.

Two are in critical condition, airlifted to a hospital in Fargo.

The other 10 are in a hospital in Bemidji.

Red Lake is an indian reservation. there were 200 kids at the school.

The shooter has been ID'd as Jeff Weiss.

2 revolvers and a shotgun...

an hour's drive from my house.

Thank *god* you posted, I was so scared, I had no idea what the name of your high school was. Jesus, I was scared.

I can't believe this happened, again. This is completely unacceptable. The human race... I don't even know what's happening.

Empty_Purple_Stars · 03-22-2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panther

How is it that every kid who goes crazy and shoots up their classmates and family has access to the weapons to do it?

*shakes head*

'The grandfather was a veteran of the reservation's police department, and his police-issued weapon was used in the rampage, the FBI said.'

The worst part was the kid was smiling while he was shooting at people..

Good times huh?

So fucking sad..

:cry: :cry:

ice · 03-22-2005, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panther

How is it that every kid who goes crazy and shoots up their classmates and family has access to the weapons to do it?

*shakes head*

The question is, how many kids are that crazy, but don't have access to the weapons? :shock:

ChUnKy_CaRaMeL · 03-22-2005, 10:23 PM

There are some things the people who wrote this article do not want to address.

1) That the boy was native / first nations / American Indian / political correct term for people who were first to inhabit the Americas. The article states that he lived on a reservation (one of the poorest in the state) of over 5,000 people with only 91 people who are non Native. The article also says that his grand-dah was a tribal police officer for the reservation. This led me to the conclusion formly stated because the article did not flatly and outright say that he was Native, although it was heavily implied.

2) That society is partly to blame for this and I shall elaborate more on this topic. The article points the finger at the fact that he was a loner who was teased a lot (as are a lot of normally functioning people - teased and being loners), the way he dressed in black (my birthday suit is black!!), that he wrote zombie fiction (come on) and that he was a neo-nazi (I don't like them, but there are lots out there and that doesn't equate to every young neo-nazi shooting his/her classmates / workmates. If so, it would be war!). It also points the finger at his family situation - father lost from suicide, mother's mind gone from terrible car accident, and grandpa as sole provider with grandpa's girlfriend in the picture (I wonder what his resentment was for killing them both?). Not once does the real underlining issue to all of this rear its head. It's as though the writers of the article wanted to make this seem as though this is your typical (pardon me for being crass) Columbine-type high school shooting and don't want to own up to a sad truth of reality in North America that is not truly addressed. I will get into that more in a bit.

So, the boy is native and society has a fault in this. Now for the elaboration. While studying here in Canada, a lot of my views on Native populations were taken apart and reassembled.

Let me begin by saying, while living in the sates, I saw natives as being "out there" living on reservations and strongly present in my ancestery - a very spiritual and connected people. Living in Bermuda I learned that they were used as slaves in the slave trade and that whole families were taken to the Carribean (Bermuda, even though it's technically in the Atlantic) to work with blacks, and thus intermarried with the black slave population (creating some rather tasty fish and chips recipes for starters, ignoring the bad bits resulting from them being taken to my isle).

Now in school in Canada, I've learned that Native populations are growing, that Canadians give Natives many benefits (much more then the states), and that Native populations are suffering from decay. The decay is what I want to highlight on because it reveals a facet of why this Native youth choose to do such terrible things to his peers and his people.

It is shown through studies that the Native population, when compared to the whole of this society, has a higher ratio of depression and suicide-related deaths. Alcoholism is rampart in part due to the depression (and possibly genetics, although I am making that assumption through articles I've read about alcoholism being genetic and not neccesarily that alcoholism is genetic in Natives). Depression is garnered from the rapid loss of culture (parents and grandparents who were sent to white schools and taught their history and forced to learn English - being banned to speak their language), land and (historically, since they are growing now, at least in Canada) people. Their traditional way of life is disappearing. All of the not-so-cool bits about society are highly present in their communities such as high rates of high school drop outs, teen pregnancies, poverty (his reservation is one of the poorest in the states. Poverty is linked to a lot of possibly detrimental developmental traits for youths, unfortunately) and high rates in prison (I already mentioned the high rate of alcoholism, depression and suicide). The echoes of the past ever do so harshly sting. I'm sure the the people of his reservation were still living in tribal groups as late as the mid to late-1800's. His great great great grandparents! I'm sure there are some still alive and who reside on those reservations (speaking of other reservations in the American mid-west) have lived long enough to remember what it is like (very very rare though, I can imagine).

So now you have this boy - Native and angry. He lives in a society that knows of the struggles of his people's past through fresh history and first hand accounts, and the struggles of his people's present through statistics; but yet, this society has done more harm then good in rectifying the wrongs of the past and addressing the festering wounds and scars left open into the present for Natives.

To add to this, he dresses in black - a christian and societally accepted way projecting a more somber, serious, and sometimes death-related (as in mourning) image. Not to mention the implications of power through evil with which black is associated. He writes horror stories in the form of zombie fiction (eat your heart out Romero). My mother often says Steven King has a sick mind for writing so much creatively horrific horror stories. Nuff' said. The boy latches on to this way of expressing whatever horrors are in his mind and to fit along with his "black" motif". Scaring people is very uplifting and gives one power. He supposively is into neo-nazis, which is definately a power thing. Power through denying the Holocaust, ragging on jews and hating blacks (easy targets) - definately uplifting and impowering to an angsty teen whose high school world treats them like (cue to somewhat inaccurate Star Wars ref.) "bantha fodder."

Get the hint here - power. Society severly oppressed his people, so he is attracted to things of power to rise above that oppression and the oppression by his peers. Being a loner in a tribe which probably is more into being together (although this claim is not backed up and I need to do more research into this. I must point out that his community is very very small and has that "small town effect" of everyone knowing each other's business. A loner would not be liked very much) and the harshness he experienced from that (nothing wrong with being a loner, some people just natural like the freedom of being alone and not surrounded by annoyances all the time), sent him to be attracted to these "darker" means of garnering power.

He had a family history of depression and suicide. His father committed suicide and maybe because of the accident his mother was in that rendered her mentally gone. Like I stated earlier, depression and suicide is higher in Native populations than with non Native populations. With all of the societal pressures placed on Native people while being expected to carry on whatever they have left of their culture while watching that culture die before their very eyes and yearning to know the massive amounts of it that were very very recently lost, everyday stressors and tramatic stressors apart from what I mentioned could lead to the high depression rates. The lack of anybody doing anything about anything could have possibly led to the lack of intervention for people who have commited suicide when they were alive and on the verge of suicide.

The boy kills himself. He must have suffered from depression, perhaps the pain of losing his mother in a sense, and father pushed him into his depression (the article does not say exactly around when he started his loner/dark/horror fiction/ neo-nazi days, but I think it was around when he lost his parents four years ago combined with teenaged growth -> 11 to 15). What finally tipped him over the edge is anyone's guess. The "big pushes" that I've mentioned in this post because he was Native only helped to get him to that edge. Why he felt he should shoot his peers and harm his people is beyond me. For the most part he could have at least taken out his anger on a school off his reservation as a sign of frustration against society's treatment of himself and his people. Alas, that is not the case. Anybody being murdered is too far, no matter where. Something should have been doen earlier. Why did he kill his own people? Why?

So, this is not another Columbine-ish type shooting. We are not dealing with frustrated upper middle class white boys from a decent mainly caucation town in the American mid west. We are talking about an event on a reservation by a Native American. This boy was not only suffering from personal problems, but also problems placed on him and all Native people by society.

Like one of his tribesmen commented "' Once again our people have been hit ... but our people are strong,'" said Ona Kingbird, a Red Lake tribal member. "'We'll come out of it.'"

Did the boy wish he was not Native, and by killing his own people elevate him in some ways to be as powerful as white society? In the end he collapsed under that weight and took his life, becoming yet another unneccesary statistic. It hurts my head but I had to say it.

*Breaths* All done now

If it turns out he wasn't Native, then hey, what a big chuck of space and hours I have wasted, but not technically (improved writing and patience skills).

CptSternn · 03-23-2005, 02:01 AM

Yeah, whats up with insinuating he is Native American, but not saying it? Then in the next sentence they say he is a nazi. Didn't think there were too many brown skinned native american nazi's out there. I'm guessing he was merely a quarter or less, meaning he is about as much native american as a few hundred thousand other americans.

Either way, this is what you have to expect. When a country tells the world its ok to attack whoever, whenever, for whatever reason they deem appropriate, tis only a matter of time before the people who live in that country take the same metality.

I'm just waiting for some guy to blow away his neighbor he doesn't like and claim it was a pre-emptive strike.

And it will happen. Bookies here already have odds on it.

ChUnKy_CaRaMeL · 03-23-2005, 07:42 AM

Aha! He was Native American:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7259823/

WolfMoon · 03-23-2005, 11:14 AM

Yes, he was Native.

And I don't even want to think about all the shit that the gothic community is going to have to weather once more because of this idiot kid and another one that I saw on the news last night that killed someone.It seems that every time people start to tolerate us, some moronic kid comes along and starts shooting kids or killing their friends and telling people they are part of the gothic sub-culture.

Quote:

I'm guessing he was merely a quarter or less, meaning he is about as much native american as a few hundred thousand other americans.

The only ones that aren't considered to really have a claim on Native heretage are the ones who have less than 1/16.Although alot of people do have Native blood, there are (obviously) far less than actually claim it.The word mere isn't used to describe people like me who have a full 1/8 or more.If you can trace it, you can claim it.Govt. doesn't recognize less than 1/16, though.And considering the fact that he lived on a reservation,I'd say that he's more Native than most.

C.C.,I think you're right about the alcholism and depression being genetic.My grandfather(on my father's side) was half Commanche and drank himself to death, and I have a tendency to say "I need a drink!"(and really want it!) if I've had a rough day/week/whatever.The thought of losing myself in strong drink for a few hours or days sounds almost too tempting at times,but that could also be the Irish in me.The depression could probably be linked to either my Native heretage or the fact that my whole family's just screwed up and almost everyone suffers from some kind of mental disorder.

I could almost sympathize with wanting to kill his grandfather if he's a dick like mine,though!

WeaselBoy · 03-23-2005, 11:24 AM

First off, to Sternn:

Imperia's mother-in-law died in that shooting. Remember her from #gothic?

Secondly -- I am going to put up an editorial about this because we have a LOT of extra traffic from it. I don't know if any of you were hanging out here during Columbine, but we got a LOT of haters coming here because of the 'expose' that 20/20 did on the "goth gunmen" and it really was upsetting. I want you all to know that one of the victims was the mother of a goth, and THAT is how goths are involved in THIs particular school shooting.

Victims, aren't we all?

WolfMoon · 03-23-2005, 11:54 AM

I'm just going to have to be extra patient with people lately if I have to keep explaining that, no goth people really aren't that violent unless you break our Sisters of Mercy CDs.

I'm sorry that goths were once agian linked to/involved in a shooting.

I don't know who Imperia is,but I'm sorry that her MIL was killed, Darren.

WeaselBoy · 03-23-2005, 01:21 PM

I just posted my editorial on the front page. It'll give everyone a little bit more of an idea of who Imperia/Juliet is and how she's related to the site. I know her and Sternn from the same IRC channel we used to frequent what seems like a decade ago.

Oh wait, it WAS a decade ago.

MrMaelstrom · 03-23-2005, 01:40 PM

Like the Marquês de Pombal (Portugal's regent) said regarding our 1755 earthquake:

What to do?
Bury and mourn the dead and heal the living.

I really think that is all you can do. Thinking about anything else will just drive you crazy before you reach any conclusions.

An' a big "Welcome back" to our lord who doesn't get sucked into a jet-engine.

Panther · 03-23-2005, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

What to do?
Bury and mourn the dead and heal the living.

Very true. We'll handle this as it applies to us, some mourning mroe htan others, some harrassed more than others, but all changed, if ever so slighlty, from knowing what's gone on.

If I were a praying woman, I would; but I'm not, so I suppose all I can say is I hope those who're affected most find peace, and those who aren't don't make it worse.

CptSternn · 03-24-2005, 04:33 AM

D -

Thanks for posting that article on the front page and also for lettimg me know about Juliet. I haven't spoke with her for some time either. If you have current contact info for the old krewe, we should send out some emails and try to do something nice for her. I have some ideas.

I really hope they don't try and bring her or her family into this anymore than they already have.

Bottom line is though, this will get worse before it gets better. I know there is little or no resembleance to Columbine, but the media likes to take one small facet and run with it. I see this blowing up into another 'hate the lads in black' and more crazy hype leading to new 'ban all black' and 'ban goths' in schools.

Slán

Binkie · 03-24-2005, 07:26 AM

I'm sure pictures of you on this site wearing all black with an SKS will do wonders for dispelling the stereotype around here, Sternn.

MrMaelstrom · 03-24-2005, 09:37 AM

I believe the right to bear arms is written in the U.S. constitution.

That alone should morally deterr any criticism towards an individual from any nationality from advocating the same line of reasoning regardless of what colour they choose to wear. Any other stand will easily be perceived (rightly or not) as hypocrical.

Are you any less part of "WE the people..." for wearing black? If those rights aren't enforced as laws and remain on paper only, then your country is really headed in the wrong direction.

My 2 cents for free.

WolfMoon · 03-24-2005, 09:54 AM

Unfortunately Mael, it does seem that people who aren't part of the white middle class christian society have to fight harder for their rights.I used to be more naive about things thinking that "Hey, we're all people right?And all of our rights matter equally" and I honestly thought that most people in the real world shared my opinion.But the truth is, they don't.

The sad truth is that people who look and dress differently do have to fight harder for what they believe in.Even in an 'equality' based society like America.As far as society is concerned "we the people....." is for the sheeple that share similar belief systems and similar identities...........or so it seems to me lately.

WeaselBoy · 03-24-2005, 01:13 PM

I have contact info for Juliet, I am going to leave her be for a little while though because I'm sure this week is pretty nuts for her.

I don't think there's going to be a huge backlash with this one, not like Columbine. I don't think anything can top that one for sheer media stupidity, honestly.

AlKilyu · 03-25-2005, 09:55 AM

I dunno... this kid loses it over nothing and he is wearing black!!

WolfMoon · 03-25-2005, 03:00 PM

That's fuckin' hilarious, Al.

There are fucking scissors sticking out of my fucking arm!

Empty_Purple_Stars · 03-26-2005, 12:05 PM

Jesus Christ.

Smoking Gun.Com found some flash animation films Weise made himself and submitted to Newgrounds.com (A site I am a long time member of that hosts amateur flash animation films)

They have a link to the short film and a snapshot of his MSN profile, which is truly blood curdling.

That combined with the short film was enough to raise the hairs on the back of my neck. He totally spelled out what he was going to do, how could no one have been suspicious of this kid. He did everything but set a date.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0323051weise1.html

Such a fucking mess..