Gothic.net News Horror Gothic Lifestyle Fiction Movies Books and Literature Dark TV VIP Horror Professionals Professional Writing Tips Links Gothic Forum




Go Back   Gothic.net Community > Boards > General

General General questions and meet 'n greet and welcome!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-02-2011, 05:10 PM   #101
Catch
 
Catch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bliss
Posts: 4,374
I don't think the sex industry is bad, as long as people are doing it because they want to for personal or ulterior motivations; however, it some people who work in the industry seem to think more for the buyer than the seller and it is awful when people are forced into prostitution. It is like the ultimate r@pe.
__________________
I Like Cheese!
Catch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 06:00 PM   #102
Sir Canvas Corpsey
 
Sir Canvas Corpsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,424
I've oft considered going into sex work to help pay the bills and all that but I've always decided against it because:
a) Lots of sex with different people not a problem but being paid for it? That just don't feel right to me for me.
b) You don't always get to pick your clients, which can be unfortunate in some cases to put it mildly, plus how hairy thing can go if they don't accept your refusal
c) The amount it could come back to bite me in the ass later in life either socially, politically or health-wise

Then I realized those are all reasons why I don't WANT to do it, the reason why I DON'T do it is because even when I only have $200 in the bank, $20 cash on me, no steady job and reliant on the government to help me pay rent and bills and for food while I study I'm still totally, absolutely in a position of privilege and able to make an informed choice to say no and be able to live. Those stats ad up to approaching poverty and extreme anxiety for my mother (which is why she thinks I have like $1000+ left in the bank) but compared to most of the people who go into sex work I'm REALLY well off right now.

You can't say anyone with less than I have has too many options, the informed choice is not between sex work and another career, its a choice between sex work and death, survival or non-survival and given the kind of things sex work can entail as outlined by other posters, sex work may financially create some small buffer for the sake of that survival but introduces a whole new set of risks or reintroduces current risks in new paradigms or probabilities.

We're talking Australia by the way,with a fairly good and open welfare system, and public healthcare and humanist principles despite some of the more hateful stereotypes we can get branded with because of some yobbos or when there's cultural dissonance and people incorrectly perceive hate where it's not.


<Sidetrack>
(eg. A Cricket based ad for KFC from a while back, where a lone Aussie supporter is surrounded by West Indie supporters at a Cricket game and so in the spirit of enjoying things despite them being different groups supporting different teams, he brandishes a bucket of KFC chicken and they all eat and get along and enjoy the game. Quickly, Australia and KFC were branded as racist: "lone white guy surrounded by blacks buys their love with fried chicken"

Uh, no folks, white Australian who would typically support his team in a match where they're involved is surrounded by West Indies who happen to black and support their team (most people tend to support their nation's or state's team, you know?) and so it's awkward cause they're from opposing teams so he shares a meal (Chicken because it's KFC) with them so they all get along. Why Australia and West Indies? Because they're big on the scene. Why Chicken? It's KFC. And according to my mother's West Indie acquaintances: "All West Indis fucking love chicken" )
<End sidetrack>

Now America on the other hand, for all its preaching about civil liberties pretty much enjoys grinding its boot on the poor and needy and powerless, those most likely to be forced into prostitution by circumstance or family.
__________________
“Lots of ways to help people. Sometimes heal patients; sometimes execute dangerous people. Either way helps.”
Sir Canvas Corpsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 06:04 PM   #103
wolf moon
 
wolf moon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Canvas Corpsey View Post
I've oft considered going into sex work to help pay the bills and all that but I've always decided against it because:
a) Lots of sex with different people not a problem but being paid for it? That just don't feel right to me for me.
b) You don't always get to pick your clients, which can be unfortunate in some cases to put it mildly, plus how hairy thing can go if they don't accept your refusal
c) The amount it could come back to bite me in the ass later in life either socially, politically or health-wise
I'm going to be super immature for a moment, and admit to giggling when I got to the bit about not choosing one's own clients, and how things might get "hairy". Because I'm apparently a 12 year old boy.

Please continue on with serious discussion.
wolf moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 07:18 PM   #104
Grausamkeit
 
Grausamkeit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,271
That's actually a damn good reason to NOT go into sex work, though. I could never get past the idea of someone I think of as gross 'buying' something so intimate from me. Then again, I've never been in a situation where I had to choose.
__________________
I'd rather label myself than have a million other people do it for me. ~ Pathogen

...I've been accused of folly by a fool. ~Antigone

Grausamkeit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 07:22 PM   #105
wolf moon
 
wolf moon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grausamkeit View Post
That's actually a damn good reason to NOT go into sex work, though. I could never get past the idea of someone I think of as gross 'buying' something so intimate from me. Then again, I've never been in a situation where I had to choose.
Right? There are some people in the world that I just... couldn't. It's difficult for me to see people as sexual unless I actually know them; I've never been able to sleep with attractive people I don't know very well. But, I'm typing this on my pretty computer in my heated apartment. So my perspective is only marginally relevant from that angle.
wolf moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 11:17 PM   #106
Solumina
 
Solumina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
I had this friend in high school (well more of a girl that I was very close with while we were younger but didn't spend a whole lot of time with as we grew up more but that is kind of beside the point) who was in that 1%. It started with a dare to give some guy head (a guy that she knew and it was a mutual friend of theirs who dared her) and she said she would do it for $50 and it just kind of evolved from there. She was pretty selective about her clients, first they had to take her on a date (with them paying for the whole date) to determine if she was interested in taking them on as a client and also to give them time to work out an agreement.

Everything went fairly well for a little bit over a year. Well some dude had heard about her from a friend of his and approached her at a party, she took him out the back door and talked to him about when she would be available for a date but he wanted to do the deed right then and there. She declined his offer and went to go back in the house. He knocked her the fuck out, ***** her, shoved some money in her bra, and left her, unconscious, next to the porch steps, where she was found by some people who had come out to smoke.

The only charge that he ended up getting stuck with was solicitation of a minor (as she was 17), he was able to explain away the **** as admitting to the money in her bra being from him but that they had sex earlier in the night, apparently wasn't enough evidence to tie him to the assault. So he ended up with a slap on the wrist and she had to spend months recovering physically, I'm honestly not sure if she will ever recover from the mental and emotional trauma. Last time I saw her was about six years after the incident and, while therapy has helped her come a long way, she is still pretty damn messed up.
__________________
Live a life less ordinary
Live a life extraordinary with me
Live a life less sedentary
Live a life evolutionary with me
-Carbon Leaf
Solumina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 02:29 AM   #107
Versus
 
Versus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
I think SCC explains it pretty well. In a perfect world, it would just be a career choice. Realistically, it's a survival choice because it's so fucking dangerous. The fact that the typical safety net isn't much better makes it pretty clear what an "informed decision" would be.
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.


-Breathin, Tupac.
Versus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2011, 07:45 PM   #108
Sinjob
 
Sinjob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fiddler's Green
Posts: 1,406
Post I wish we could use more than one icon :/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elystan View Post
What are y'alls views on it? Empowering? Degrading? That depends? Depends on what?
If you possessed the brain of a slightly LARGER insect and thought about how to possibly conduct an argument, you'd probably specify at least SOMETHING EXPLAINING WHAT THE FUCK EXACTLY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT to refrain from posting an ambiguous two sentence schlop like this.

Just had to say that much.


Quote:
I take that back
Save it for the playground.
Sinjob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 02:02 AM   #109
Miss Absynthe
 
Miss Absynthe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
Sex work doesn't automatically equate to trafficking.

i worked in the sex industry for a number of years - I was paid better than any other job I have ever had, and I was more respected by my clients than I have been in most other jobs that I've had (especially in nursing - the disrespect that people show nurses is freaking unbelievable... and it isn't because they're ill, most of the time their relatives are the worst!).

Sex trafficking is an awful and disgusting thing, but to align it with the sex industry is like saying that all house cleaners are illegal immigrants or that all priests are **********. Yes, there are disgusting foul people involved in this industry, but there are also beautifully amazing people... just like any other sort of work.
Miss Absynthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 09:05 AM   #110
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
There's a big difference between the sex work industry at large (which includes dancers, phone sex workers, porn actors, escorts, etc) and working as a prostitute. Statistically prostituted women are overwhelmingly trafficked and the average age of entry into prostitution in Canada is 14, and that does include both indoor and outdoor prostitution.

Everyone has been pretty clear about what specifically we are talking about.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 01:01 PM   #111
Versus
 
Versus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
I'd like to talk about porn if prostitution is done with.
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.


-Breathin, Tupac.
Versus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 01:02 PM   #112
Ben Lahnger
 
Ben Lahnger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Um, lower, oh yeah, uh, uh ... YES THERE!
Posts: 6,738
Saya, most everyone was pretty clear except the OP's initial statement ... just clarifying that point.

I was once roommates with a woman who worked as both an escort and madame of her own agency. The words prostitute (or "pro") and escort are used pretty interchangeably in those circles. I got a pretty good look at the business from her perspective, and I got to know a number of those ladies (I never saw any of them professionally, just became friends with a few of them.) More time was spent making sure she and her girls would be safe (from harassment or abuse by both the johns and law enforcement agents) than was actually spent having sex. For those women, it wasn't the only job they could choose or even a financially pressed decision. It WAS an informed choice.

I know, that's not what anyone is talking about.

Once I thought that being a prostitute or escort would make one become jaded to sex and see men as nothing but objects. My frame of reference was what appeared to be the endlessly bored looks I had seen in strippers eyes when they danced on stage. I assumed it would be the same or worse for women who had sex with men for money.

But I was also roommates at another time with a woman who did phone sex. She never met her clients (with one exception) and she was much more jaded about men and sex than any of the escorts I met. Sex with her was always colored or shaded a bit by the negative and degrading things she had heard from men over the phone for all those years. Whereas, sex with the girls who had worked as escorts was generally free and lighthearted fun ... not jaded at all.
__________________
Lead me not into temptation ... follow me, I know a shortcut!

As the poets have mournfully sung,
death takes the innocent young,
the rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
and those who are very well hung.


Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
Ben Lahnger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 06:19 PM   #113
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
In all things there is hierarchy and privilege. Someone with a boss who isn't out to exploit them, who have other avenues of finance is a different world from women who are forced into it, by rrape, trafficking or financial need. And often the racist, imperialist, sexist and classist issues get glossed over with "I know someone who does it and enjoys it."
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 06:34 PM   #114
Alan
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
Yeah, it just shows the importance of third-wave feminism, as people in developed countries as a norm end up with the mentality (more often than not unintentionally but it's still there) of "if middle class white women with availability of opportunity and freedom of movement can find it empowering, then it's not a women's rights issues anymore"
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 06:57 PM   #115
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Well, I think liberal feminism is complicit in that.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 07:18 PM   #116
Grausamkeit
 
Grausamkeit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,271
I vote we talk about pr0nz, naow!
__________________
I'd rather label myself than have a million other people do it for me. ~ Pathogen

...I've been accused of folly by a fool. ~Antigone

Grausamkeit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 08:08 PM   #117
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grausamkeit View Post
I vote we talk about pr0nz, naow!
Nothing inherently wrong with it, but mainstream porn is pretty misogynistic.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 08:34 PM   #118
Alan
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBtLst3espU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UriHw41mIAY
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 08:57 PM   #119
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
There's a really good documentary called The Price Of Pleasure that talks about problems in mainstream pornography, and also talks about hardcore pornography at the end. I recommend it, but it was very graphic and disturbing. One of the girls I watched it with had to leave the room.

I think Noam Chomsky is interviewed in the extras on the DVD too.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 09:12 PM   #120
Ben Lahnger
 
Ben Lahnger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Um, lower, oh yeah, uh, uh ... YES THERE!
Posts: 6,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya View Post
And often the racist, imperialist, sexist and classist issues get glossed over with "I know someone who does it and enjoys it."
Or, the people who do it and freely enjoy it get swept up with the cases of legitimate sexist, imperialist, classist and racist issues that exist elsewhere.
__________________
Lead me not into temptation ... follow me, I know a shortcut!

As the poets have mournfully sung,
death takes the innocent young,
the rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
and those who are very well hung.


Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
Ben Lahnger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 09:41 PM   #121
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Elsewhere as in the poorer parts of the same city? At the panel I attended there was a white queer sex worker from Vancouver, where 51 per cent of prostituted women are First Nations women, and 60% of advertised brothel women are Asian, and 97% of prostituted women said they'd leave the business if they could. She enjoys her work and she's entitled to her experience, but dismissing the racialized women as "Other" that doesn't concern her isn't the way to go.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 02:50 AM   #122
Versus
 
Versus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
Alan/Saya: Can you summarize for me? I can't watch those here.
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.


-Breathin, Tupac.
Versus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 06:42 AM   #123
Grausamkeit
 
Grausamkeit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,271
That's really sad. I almost cried at the part where she's saying that she enjoyed the 'rough sex' scene she just did. There was no inner glow of elation as there is with someone who truly enjoyed what they just did.

I've seen people who are more genuinely happy being tied up and struck with a bullwhip.
__________________
I'd rather label myself than have a million other people do it for me. ~ Pathogen

...I've been accused of folly by a fool. ~Antigone

Grausamkeit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 05:53 PM   #124
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versus View Post
Alan/Saya: Can you summarize for me? I can't watch those here.
Basically?

Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 06:29 AM   #125
Ben Lahnger
 
Ben Lahnger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Um, lower, oh yeah, uh, uh ... YES THERE!
Posts: 6,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya View Post
Elsewhere as in the poorer parts of the same city? At the panel I attended there was a white queer sex worker from Vancouver, where 51 per cent of prostituted women are First Nations women, and 60% of advertised brothel women are Asian, and 97% of prostituted women said they'd leave the business if they could. She enjoys her work and she's entitled to her experience, but dismissing the racialized women as "Other" that doesn't concern her isn't the way to go.
That wasn't what I was saying, and you know it.

There are rampant injustices everywhere in the world in the sex trade, but it doesn't mean everyone in that trade is treated unjustly.

I not saying dismiss, deny or deflect any attention or concern about those injustices. I'm just saying do not paint every person who works in that field with the same brush. You seem intent on doing so.
__________________
Lead me not into temptation ... follow me, I know a shortcut!

As the poets have mournfully sung,
death takes the innocent young,
the rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
and those who are very well hung.


Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
Ben Lahnger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:47 PM.