Nihilism

BLEED REBELION!!! · 12-11-2006, 06:43 PM

I was just wondering what every one though of nihilism. when it comes to the morality aspect of it i dont real think that there is one true morality.people should make up thier own rules thier own code of ethics and then attempt to live by them instead of the morals of others being imposed onto you. I dont think anything is truly evil or good i believe thats a distinction humans make a way of trying to make yourself seem more rght by saying something eles is wrong. Every thing just plain and simply is.as for reality i think there are multitudes of them. every person lives in there own reality that is different from the next whether the difference is small or gigantic. its impossible to say something is always this or that way because there is always an exception to the rule always a what if.

Jayden · 12-11-2006, 07:16 PM

I agree with Nihilism in some respects. I definitely agree with you that we should make up our own rules and ethics. Thus, I believe there is no one true morality, rather, each person should have his or own. I wouldn't say that we don't have a purpose or meaning tho. I just believe that we don't have one at birth. We must invent it when we're ready. We set our goals, we contribute, we make the world a better or a worse place, and if there's an afterlife, it's the impact we left upon the world positive or negative, no matter how big or small, that decides how we're going to do in the afterlife, or in reincarnation.

That's my take on it anyway.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-11-2006, 07:16 PM

Morality is only an aspect of Nihilism.
Nihilism is a position that states that existence has no meaning or purpose.
Following from this reasoning, it's obvious that there is no such thing as absolute values.

Jayden · 12-11-2006, 07:20 PM

Yeah, I kind of went into my own beliefs at the end there.

Mick Ignis · 12-11-2006, 07:21 PM

I think it's bullshit. It would work, if you were the only person on the planet. It's just some lame thing to make people feel rebellious. We need a government and rules that look out for our best interests. Nihilism is just anarchy, and anarchy means that only the physically strong survive. We would all be dead, as would artistic expression and freedom of speech. We are part of a subculture. If we didn't have laws and government protecting us, we would have all been burned at the stake the minute we started acting against the norm. Government doesn't force morals upon you (yet, it's getting damn close though with this administration). We choose the way we want to live our lives, we have that freedom and laws protecting those rights.

Pyre · 12-11-2006, 07:28 PM

I agree with Mick. Nihilsm is too chaotic. It would destroy so much, and utterly kill of the existence of man. People are not sane enough, intelligent enough, trustworthy enough to be trusted with nihilism. It would cause pure destruction.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-11-2006, 07:29 PM

Haha, you're not going to believe it, but just as happened with the satanist remark, I'm also a Nihilist.
The problem is that the way they explained it is wrong.
It makes it sound like in Nihilism every person has the right to have its own set of standards and values.
Meanwhile, in reality, absolute values are inexistent, but this doesn't mean that everyone has the right to believe whatever the hell they want.
Au contraire, by my Nihilistic standards, none of hus has the right to anything.
I do what I do because I can, and if I were to be prohibited from something, I'd either fight for it or bitch about it.
There's no such thing as a moral absolute, but there are near absolutes: those stated by the people that have power. Their values become society's values. Their ideals become society's ideals. Their reality becomes society's reality.
That's how social control is maintained. In Ancient Greece, pedophilia was common. In our society, it's disgusting. This shows there's no such thing as something inherently right or wrong; only effective and ineffective.

Mick Ignis · 12-11-2006, 07:35 PM

I'm pleased with Democracy. I'm able to do whatever I want, say whatever I want, and create whatever I want. I feel no need to infringe on others lives, and I've never done or had the urge to do anything illegal. The only thing in this world that upsets me is the average person, who under anarchy and nihilism, would have beat me to a pulp and left me for dead because they were uncomfortable with the way I looked or the things I'm interested in. Government is a reflection of mass society.

Let me ask you this, have you ever had your rights infringed upon by the government? I haven't, then again I'm in the very liberal Los Angeles, so everything has been allowed as long as it doesn't conflict with others rights to safety.

Jayden · 12-11-2006, 07:37 PM

Ya. Jillian put that well. On the note of Anarchy and Nihilism, well, it would work in a perfect world. But then, hey, same thing with communism. In any case, humans as a race just can't handle it.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-11-2006, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick Ignis

Let me ask you this, have you ever had your rights infringed upon by the government?

Not really. But I woudn't mind.
"The Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away"

There's no such thing as rights, only privileges.
What we know as rights are only privileges bestowed on us by the government.
Of course they could do better, and that's why I want to make people live by my own set of rules; but I hate when people bitch about rights when there is no reason why they should have them

*snickers*
Common people... They're too dense for anarchy.

Pyre · 12-11-2006, 07:47 PM

I really hate morals, honestly. I wish I could go out and do whatever I wish, but dang, if I wasn't moralized, as well as the society around me. . . I am rethinking this anarchy thing -.-

Mick Ignis · 12-11-2006, 07:50 PM

Anarchy would work in a world full of intellectuals. And I'm sure you know as well as anyone that our world is FAR from that. Human beings are animals and most animals will follow a leader no matter what the government standing is. In America, Christians are the majority. Therefore, if you take away the government and create anarchy rule, the country would fall under Christian power.

The only way to be sure that other people follow our values is to elect a person in government that has our same basic ideals, which we'll both be able to do (for the first time) in 2008.

Mick Ignis · 12-11-2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyre

I really hate morals, honestly. I wish I could go out and do whatever I wish, but dang, if I wasn't moralized, as well as the society around me. . . I am rethinking this anarchy thing -.-

What would you go out and do that you wouldn't get to do normally? Kill someone?

Jayden · 12-11-2006, 07:53 PM

Yeah, but consider this. If there was anarchy, and most people were christians...

...then I'd get to do a whole lot of christian hunting!

Pyre · 12-11-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick Ignis

What would you go out and do that you wouldn't get to do normally? Kill someone?

Maybe.
Then again, there are people who would kill me sooner than I would them.

No, I just hate the fact that, even though I am not a Christian, I am actually more moralized than most Christians I know. It's not a bad thing, because I am a pretty good person, but I hate the feeling that I am still tied down by morals. They're part of who I am, and I would feel guilty going against them.

Mick Ignis · 12-11-2006, 07:57 PM

I would die with a gun in my hand if christian rule were obtained. Unfortunetly, we wouldn't last long due to how outnumbered we'd be. I have reason to believe that Pat Robertson is building an army as we speak.

Mick Ignis · 12-11-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyre

Maybe.
Then again, there are people who would kill me sooner than I would them.

No, I just hate the fact that, even though I am not a Christian, I am actually more moralized than most Christians I know. It's not a bad thing, because I am a pretty good person, but I hate the feeling that I am still tied down by morals. They're part of who I am, and I would feel guilty going against them.

It's what separates us from the animals. I am completely religionless, but I have stronger morals than any "good christian soldier" has. I try to only do good in this world and leave my mark. I help whoever I can for no personal gain and fight for the rights of anyone who is being wrongly persecuted. I am completely non-violent and can't even remember the last time I had a physical or verbal fight with someone (I think I was 6). I will of course burn in hell though, since I don't believe in God. Having morals is nothing to be ashamed of. Surprisingly, morals were around before the idea of God or religion. Funny, huh?

Jayden · 12-11-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick Ignis

I would die with a gun in my hand if christian rule were obtained. Unfortunetly, we wouldn't last long due to how outnumbered we'd be. I have reason to believe that Pat Robertson is building an army as we speak.

What kind of gun? How many would you guess take down before you hit the dirt? I want the juicy details.

Yeah you're right though. Perhaps maybe we'll be more in number in a hundred years from now and there'll be fewer christians?

Okay, probably not, but hey, I can dream, right?

Pyre · 12-11-2006, 08:09 PM

You know, there's nothing wrong with Christians as long as they're open to the opinions of others and don't condemn people for believing differently. I mean, there are people on this site who are Christian and are really cool people. I just hate the conservative kind, but that goes for everyone.

Mick Ignis · 12-11-2006, 08:14 PM

I don't judge any single person on their religion. I do have friends that are christian as well as jewish, catholic, mormon, scientologist, buddhist, hindu, etc. There are good people in every religion, however, the majority is often conservative and ignorant. I always talk to someone first.

HumanePain · 12-11-2006, 08:31 PM

I think Jillian was closer when he was trying to distinguish between Nihilism and doing what one wants (Existentialism). What most everyone in this thread is describing is Existentialism. Doing what matters to the individual (individual choice and freedom). The position that Jillian takes for his comments is true Nihilism: nothing matters, not people's "rights", "privileges" or even people.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-11-2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanePain

nothing matters, not people's "rights", "privileges" or even people.

Isn't that just beautiful?

Or am I the only one who sees the beauty in a meaningless, irrational, empty existence?
There is no lovelier rose than that which grows and fades away without an observer to its beauty.

Mick Ignis · 12-11-2006, 09:07 PM

Im the opposite. I believe that almost everything means something or has beauty in it. I try to express the meaning in the meaningless through film, and how to find a path out of desolation. Even a roach lives a somewhat complex life that none of us can possibly understand.

knightmare · 12-11-2006, 09:10 PM

Hey Godslayer Jillian,

Isn't it impossible for beauty to exist in a meaningless existence?
Beauty itself is based on meaning.

Oh, I still can't see any beauty in dadaism, I just think it is weird in its attempt to undermine the purpose, production and reception of art. For example, one infamous dadaist (Manzoni) did a piece called Artists' Shit, in which he filled 90 boxes with his own excrement, and then told the buyers of his "piece" never to open them. You obviously know something I don't.

I don't mean to sound derogatory, but I really would like to know your perspective on it. It's really intriguing

Godslayer Jillian · 12-11-2006, 09:17 PM

My perspective of shit is quite easy.
It doesn't matter the meaning it implies, shit is still shit.
I love both Dadaism and Art, even if it's a contradiction (someday I'll understand why they both work in my philosophy), but shit in either Art or Dada is still shit.