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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right."
-H.L. Menken |
08-10-2008, 02:36 AM
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#26
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: El Paso, Texas/ Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua
Posts: 9,203
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There's a 'temporary' central government on communism. The central government is supposed to dissipate as people accustom themselves to not needing it.
That is actually an idea I agree with, but communists act too slowly for me to consider myself a communist. The soviets did benefit from the bolsheviks, but barely a year later, most of them were self-sufficient, like the previously mentioned Makhnovtchina.
__________________
"No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world.
I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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08-10-2008, 12:37 PM
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#27
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius
Posts: 1,750
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I'm usually quite wary of that shift. I usually doubt most "communist" leaders are willing to give up their great seat of power.
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08-10-2008, 01:23 PM
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#28
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
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Think about it friends, someone offers you a small baggie of fine green,but you see a 10 gallon garbage bag full of the stuff....which would you do ,take the small baggie and leave or wait for the right moment to take it all?
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08-10-2008, 01:26 PM
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#29
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Out of my mind.
Posts: 999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05
Think about it friends, someone offers you a small baggie of fine green,but you see a 10 gallon garbage bag full of the stuff....which would you do ,take the small baggie and leave or wait for the right moment to take it all?
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I don't take either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack
I'm usually quite wary of that shift. I usually doubt most "communist" leaders are willing to give up their great seat of power.
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One solution to that is to take it from them, instead of waiting for them to give it up.
__________________
"What have I taken away from you?"
"My irlelaulsiitoyn!."
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08-10-2008, 01:39 PM
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#30
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
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And there you have it,Communisim in action "If the people won't give it up take it from them" the same could be said for America because our Forefathers did take the country from the Original Americans,it isn't just Communisim that is flawed every form of government is flawed.
Which also brings up the topic of Anarchy,why have government in the first place,but like others have pointed out the strongest prevail and make the weaker survivors their subjects,and a type of government is put into play,if it be a monarchy,a democracy,or ect,ect.
From chaos comes order and from order comes chaos the yin and yang of the universe as it is,and will be.
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08-10-2008, 01:44 PM
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#31
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 627
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Communism isn't flawed politically its what you put with it that is flawed.
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08-10-2008, 02:03 PM
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#32
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
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Exactly Human beings are the flaw. because by nature human beings are flawed in some way, the point I'm trying to get across is that somewhere,reguardless of the government system or lack there of,some one will be greedy and try to take everything they can.
It's the genie in the bottle , Pandora's box,it can lead to greatness for the people if done right or it can be their living hell it all hinges on the people in charge as well as those that support them.
It applies to any government system.
(The Edit button is my friend)
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08-10-2008, 02:10 PM
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#33
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 627
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I was trying to mean the political system that people choose to go with it, But what you says kinda works to.
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08-10-2008, 02:48 PM
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#34
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 6,909
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I will point out that people seem to believe that communism would fail every time. All the while, capitalism is pretty much the bane of everyone except for an elite few.
Shit. Hey, at least a HANDFUL of people can live beyond comfortable, right? *eyeroll*
__________________
No Gods. No Kings.
Not all beliefs and ideas are equal.
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08-10-2008, 03:00 PM
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#35
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
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What the hell man I'm not attacking any one form of government and defending the other,I used Communisim as an example,Look at it this way .
Russia was communist,then they a became a democracy after their economy fell through along with that went their infrastructure to a degree.
China is Communist and they seem to be making it just as well as the U.S. and in some instances they're doing far better.
Almost any type of Government can work,the linch pin though for any of it is the people that support that form,and those that are in charge.
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08-10-2008, 03:12 PM
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#36
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 627
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Communism is a economic system it has nothing to do with democracy.
You can have both communism and democracy.
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08-10-2008, 03:16 PM
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#37
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius
Posts: 1,750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05
Russia was communist,
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Wrong, they were socialists. Bad at it too. USSR, not UCSR.
And Wednesday, democracy would work very well with communism if it was done right.
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08-10-2008, 03:19 PM
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#38
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
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The point being if it was done right.
From my view point it would be a pretty big if.
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08-10-2008, 03:20 PM
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#39
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 627
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Russia couldn't be communist as communism requires a good infrastructure which they didn't have at the time.
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08-10-2008, 03:23 PM
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#40
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: El Paso, Texas/ Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua
Posts: 9,203
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Well, it's worth mentioning that, despite one sole party during soviet rule, there were still democratic elections in Russia as for the persons to hold certain offices in the one sole party.
These elections were voluntary, as evidenced by the fact that only about two thirds of the people voted, yet these elections had a much bigger participation than elections in America and offered a bigger diversity in ideas, ranging from trotskyists to those socialists that felt a degree of capitalism would be for the best. Meanwhile in America it's just "keep everything the same" or "keep everything the same but let's add one more socialist institution"
__________________
"No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world.
I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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08-10-2008, 03:29 PM
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#41
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
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But what did Russia support, Communist states,that's why there are more AKM's and AK74's floating around in places like Cambodia,Vietnam,oh yeah let's not forget North Korea.
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08-10-2008, 03:31 PM
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#42
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 627
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Sure, North Korea really shows distribution of wealth right?
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08-10-2008, 03:35 PM
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#43
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 6,909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05
But what did Russia support, Communist states,that's why there are more AKM's and AK74's floating around in places like Cambodia,Vietnam,oh yeah let's not forget North Korea.
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Yeah, look. If a fascist says they're communist, they're lying to you.
__________________
No Gods. No Kings.
Not all beliefs and ideas are equal.
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08-10-2008, 03:43 PM
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#44
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: El Paso, Texas/ Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua
Posts: 9,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05
But what did Russia support, Communist states,that's why there are more AKM's and AK74's floating around in places like Cambodia,Vietnam,oh yeah let's not forget North Korea.
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They have already said why your statement is wrong, but let me give you the 'other side of the coin' which is more veridical.
What did America support, capitalist states, that's why in the nineties in Nicaragua and Honduras there were still hundreds of farmers a month going to emergency rooms for stepping on mines America left and refused to take out(while Russia had plead for forgiveness in Afghanistan and gave Afghanistan all the maps of land mines set up during the war, prompting America to say in the newspapers "finally Russia takes responsibility for its actions")
Oh, yeah, and let's not forget the systematic murder of civilian farmers whose only crime was working in collectivized farms in Indonesia.
And what about Chile, Guatemala, the failed attempt at the Bay of Pigs, and Grenada.
__________________
"No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world.
I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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08-10-2008, 03:55 PM
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#45
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
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And I never said the United States is the innocent good guy either,we have done our share of damage to other nations,I don't like it but it is the truth,who do you think helped Bin Laden in the first place,and it came back about 20 or so years later and bit US in the ass on 9/11.
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08-10-2008, 03:59 PM
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#46
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 6,909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05
And I never said the United States is the innocent good guy either,we have done our share of damage to other nations,I don't like it but it is the truth,who do you think helped Bin Laden in the first place,and it came back about 20 or so years later and bit US in the ass on 9/11.
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Fact of the matter is, DMW, is that this "sickness" in the world isn't worth preserving.
__________________
No Gods. No Kings.
Not all beliefs and ideas are equal.
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08-10-2008, 04:11 PM
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#47
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 6,909
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Addendum... "sickness" isn't exactly the right word. Essentially, what I was getting at is there's no reason to perpetuate a flawed system just because we're afraid of something that can be better.
__________________
No Gods. No Kings.
Not all beliefs and ideas are equal.
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08-10-2008, 04:12 PM
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#48
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
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What Sickness?
You see sickness, I see a better way of doing things without fucking people over no matter where they call home.
The best thing for the United States that I can think of,is to stay to ourselves and out of other nations business.
I'm for a return to Isolationism myself.
We were better off that way.
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08-10-2008, 04:18 PM
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#49
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 6,909
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That's still not good enough. We get it. You love your country. But look at the state it's in and look at how slow people want to keep the inevitable from happening.
*sigh* Corporatism... gotta love it.
__________________
No Gods. No Kings.
Not all beliefs and ideas are equal.
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08-10-2008, 04:26 PM
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#50
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
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Yeah but with anything it takes time,and I'm still convinced that with the right people Capitalism will prove out in the long run,I'm not saying some progress can't be made, changes are both good and bad,what I'm saying is we need to have a revolution not an armed innsurrection,clear out the cabinets give them their pink slips and send them home put someone else in there,that will respect the old ways as well as the new.
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