We will never forget...

[msr.iaidoka]

Lapin & delicti,

Man, I leave the thread for a few days and it all goes to hell. Thank you both for championing the sentiment that I have after having read the back posts, you have saved me the headache of having to go it alone.


Amazed how something so simple can become so convoluted,

Matt

[MaverickZero]

Funny, I thought staying on topic was relevant to the forum you were posting in. Maybe if you spent more time paying attention to that instead of patting each other on the back, things wouldn't get so out of hand.

[HumanePain]

I apologize everyone, it appears that the community consensus is that I should have created this thread in the General or Whining Forum? Anyway, I thought that some debating would be inevitable on such a world wide and dividing topic, so that is why I initially chose to post it here in Politics. I hope we may all agree to disagree, I did not intend for this to descend into bickering or hard feelings.

[msr.iaidoka]

HumanePain,

...I am not interested in debating conspiracy theories etc.

I just want to remember the innocent U.S. citizens...

Nope, seems like you were pretty straightforward from the beginning. Kind of difficult to misinterpret that.


MaverickZero,

Enough, man. Just enough. This has become out of hand and has far deviated from the original intent of the thread.


To all,

For the sake of ending the petty squabbling and other foolish ramblings I propose that this thread be put to rest.


Enough is enough,

Matt

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by delicti

I assume you would have a party every time you hear of Americans dying?

Don't get me started. How can you 'support' the troops and not support the war? You can't. I don't support either.

He is my rational - much like the squadies in N. Ireland where I grew up, the American forces are occupying forces. They are guilty of war crimes. Or look at Germany WW2 - can you be against Hitler and his government, but support the Nazi forces?

Although much like N. Ireland it was the government and it's policies which led the soldiers to do what they did, the soldiers still pulled the trigger.

The hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi's weren't killed by bush, rumsfeld, or cheney. None of those men have ever carried a gun into battle. Sure, they may pull the strings, but they aren't the ones out there killing civilians.

So do I celebrate when a US soldier dies? I don't celebrate the dead, but I do celebrate the fact one less murderer is off the planet. I celebrate the fact one more death pushes the American public towards action, towards the end of the war.

One more soldier dead means that the bush administration will have to act sooner than later.

I don't support the war, nor do I support the troops. And yes, I am guilty of a little schadenfreude.

[delicti]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

So do I celebrate when a US soldier dies? I don't celebrate the dead, but I do celebrate the fact one less murderer is off the planet. I celebrate the fact one more death pushes the American public towards action, towards the end of the war.

I think that pretty much sums up your argument right there.

The US military also includes school teachers, maintenance workers, and a myriad of other non-combat support staff. You're also talking about casualties that also affect civilian families back home.

To categorize trained military personnel of any Geneva Conventions supporting country as "murderers" is amazingly ignorant, and shows quite plainly your bias towards Americans.

If you can't respect soldiers and contractors in the field who are doing their job, following civil rights laws, and trying to make Iraq into a better nation, where do you draw a line with your dehumanization?

I don't celebrate the dead or the death of anyone in Iraq, from any nation. Even the death of terrorists over there is a tragedy, since it's one more person who all other means of mediation have failed on. I think the callousness of your statement speaks for itself.

- Anyways, that sentiment clearly belongs on another thread.

[Lapin]

Considering I know, work with, eat with, and love a lot of people in the armed forces, I can't agree. I know that what goes on over there is something I will never comprehend. I'm not a soldier, and I've never killed anyone nor have I been shot at.

Sometimes it's a neighbor who gives me lavender clippings being shipped over there to work on computers. Sometimes it's a man whose profession is to take photos who has orders, and he once begged me for a photo, to remember my hair.

Know that I never support violence. I can't support killing, on either side. But I can't stop loving the people that are over there. No matter what anyone else thinks about them, be it a murderer or a soldier or a hero, they are my loved ones.

[MaverickZero]

No matter what the greater good seems to be, there shall always be those who think it the greater evil.

[CptSternn]

The Nazi's employed school teachers, builders, accountants, and many, many others.

Doesn't make them any less Nazis.

Al-Queda employees teachers, accountants, etc. as well.

Are they exempt from prosecution in America because they are not soldiers? Are they viewed as civilians?

My point being is American politicians have spent many hours trying to split hairs with todays military - the troops are good, their actions and goal is bad.

They have attempted to sell the world on the fact these are good people doing a bad thing, and that their acts should be ignored because they are just pawns.

That defence didn't work for the nazis when they were dragged before the courts after the war, and outside of America now no other country (with exception to britian) has the same view point.

The protests *in* America might be pro-troop/anti-war, but around the world everyone else sees the troops and the war as one entity - we don't care for either.

[delicti]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

The Nazi's employed school teachers, builders, accountants, and many, many others.

Doesn't make them any less Nazis.

WOO-HOO!!

The 50 Hilter post!

Thread over.

[CptSternn]

Actually the 50 Hitler post theory is when I compare the troops to nazi troops as equally as bad.

I'm not saying either are bad or good - my point is that you can't fight against the governments policy then support the troops that back that policy.