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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 08-10-2008, 04:31 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05
Yeah but with anything it takes time,and I'm still convinced that with the right people Capitalism will prove out in the long run,I'm not saying some progress can't be made, changes are both good and bad,what I'm saying is we need to have a revolution not an armed innsurrection,clear out the cabinets give them their pink slips and send them home put someone else in there,that will respect the old ways as well as the new.

Capitalism is NOT as benevolent as you imagine. Capitalism is all about making as much as you can and the dynamic of it is to be as manipulative as possible about it. It is the very nature of survival of the fittest.

Explain how Anarcho-Capitalism can work and maybe I'd be convinced.
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Old 08-10-2008, 05:34 PM   #52
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But what did Russia support, Communist states,that's why there are more AKM's and AK74's floating around in places like Cambodia,Vietnam,oh yeah let's not forget North Korea.
You're a fucking idiot. Don't even try to bring in the AK-47 in to the picture. The reason the AK-47 is so prolific in Eastern Bloc isn't because of Russia handing them out like candy.

Why is it so prolific? Because the AK-47 is a cheap weapon to produce. Cheaper then the M-16, cheaper then the M-14, and arguably cheaper then the FN-FAL or the G3, the equivalent to the AK-47.

Why? Because the AK-47/AKM design is extremely easy to copy, and is a durable design. The M-16 isn't easy to copy, and anyone who has owned an older AR-15 knows how much of a pain they can be to maintain.

Why? Because Russia didn't keep very good tabs on their AK-47s. Invade a country? Oh, we'll just leave our AKs. A lose a shipment? Fuck tracking them down, we'll just make more. Drop your AK-47 in the battlefield, comrade? We'll just make another, since they're so fucking cheap.

Why? Because the AK-47 uses wooden parts. The AK-47, in a pinch, can be made by hand. The design for the AK-47 is extremely well known. Try making any AR-15 by hand. It's a bitch.

Why? Because Russia isn't the only country who produces the AK-47. Albania, Bulgaria, China, Germany, Egypt, Hungary, Iraq, India, Iran, Finland, North Korea, Pakistan, Romania, Serbia, Vietnam, Venezuela, and Serbia all make their own variants of the AK-47.Russia isn't even involved.

Why? Because a crappy clone of the AK-47 costs less than $100 on the black market.

Why? Because the AK-47 can be operated without any prior training.

But nooo, it has to be because of Russia.
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Old 08-10-2008, 05:52 PM   #53
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I'll stick with the old system,it has it's flaws but it can be improved upon.

Just like everything else.
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Old 08-10-2008, 05:57 PM   #54
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No I'm fucking sleep deprived, Yes they sort of did because well the Russians were strapped for cash and they had to trade something for food and the like.

And they are cheap,tough, but dirt cheap.
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Old 08-10-2008, 06:09 PM   #55
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No I'm fucking sleep deprived, Yes they sort of did because well the Russians were strapped for cash and they had to trade something for food and the like.

And they are cheap,tough, but dirt cheap.
I'm sleep deprived too, I was at a bachelor's party until 4 last night.

Some of the AK's in other countries are Russia weapons, and some are for the reasons you mentioned. However, Russia AK's are amoung the most expensive avaliable. I'd bet my money that a Yugoslavian AK will go for half of what a Russian AK will, and a Chinese will go for half of that.

The reason the AK is out there so widely, isn't because Russia spread it's legs and said "Come and get one everybody". It's because the design is unmatched for the price. Nothing the West put out could match it. Not the AR-15/M-16, not the FN FAL, not the G3, and not the M-14. I mean, fuck, the FN FAL was practically made as a match for the AK-47, and the gun still couldn't compete with the AK-47.

Fun fact: The FN FAL, also known as the "right arm of the Free World", is the active service rifle of Venezula, one of those pesky socialist countries. In fact, it was only until 2006 that they switched over to the AK-47.
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Old 08-10-2008, 06:44 PM   #56
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Yeah reliabitly problems the AK will feed and function with the best of them,only problem is the barrel warps with each trigger pull taking alot away from accuracy.

If given a choice either a K98k,Springfield 03 or an M-1 Garand ,way better rifles.
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Old 08-10-2008, 06:54 PM   #57
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I'm confused. What does that have to do with the weapon being used in Communist countries?

Anyway, if we're going to talk shop...

I'd take an AK-47 over a K98, Springfield, or M-1 Garand. Why?

The guns you listed are semi-automatics with clips less than 5 or 8 round clips, and internal magazines, with a minimum length of 43 inches.

The AK-47 has a 30 round magazine, is selective fire to fully automatic, and has a minimum length of 35 inches.

They're two different types of weapon.

Still, what does this have to do with Communism?
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Old 08-10-2008, 07:14 PM   #58
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I thought it would be a nice contibution to let everybody know why the hell they are so cheap.

You focus on quantity I always pick quality.

Oh yeah F.Y.I. ever hear of a little patch of ground called Bellow Wood?

(And the first two that I mentioned were bolt actions Numb Nutts)
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Old 08-10-2008, 07:17 PM   #59
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And? They're cheap. That's why they're so prolific. Not because of Communism.

Don't try and get off topic.

It's Belleau Wood, you moron. Yes, I do know what it is.

(Yeah, I know. Check everything else, fuckhead. They're still legit, and you know I'm right that they're two different types of weapons.)
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Old 08-10-2008, 07:35 PM   #60
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Communisim didn't do much to keep it under wraps,they are the ones that designed and proliferated them through to the worlds hot spots,

(Throws Splintered a Cookie) good job you know the difference between an Assault rifle and a Main Battle rifle you get a gold star.

Now I just stated an opinion over which I would choose,it's clear you would rather go with spray and pray, I'd rather have accuracy and range on my side.

I also stated that they were linked right back to Russia,and that they were traded by Russia for food,and other goods.

I.E. It was the Russians that began to hand them out to sovet and communist territories,and then the other countries began to copy the direct design.
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Old 08-10-2008, 07:47 PM   #61
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Except that Russia, for the last time, wasn't Communist, it was Socialist you dumb twit. Have you even read the previous posts? Hell, how the fuck is "Communism" a single entity, then the originating country, WASN'T EVEN COMMUNIST.

Yes, Russia proliferated them through the world's hotspots, mostly by invading those places. Russia also wasn't Communist, doesn't speak for most Communists, and doesn't speak for communists or Communists in general.

However, even most AK-47s/variants are unlicensed copies that didn't originate from Russia. Meaning, the Russians didn't hand them over, the other countries just copied them and went along their merry way. You know, that whole concept of stealing and copying.

Can you not differentiate between communists and countries that call themselves Communist? Or are you still stuck in Reagan's Evil Empire era, thinking any social program is the bane of all evil's society?

Also, I'd rather have a 30 round clip than an 8 round clip. The first shot accuracy with the AK-47 isn't as bad as you make it out to be either, and having a second shot avaliable for followup is better than none at all.

Not to mention the fact that the recoil will settle before you can even load a second round in to the chamber with the bolt action, putting it back at first shot levels.

Do you want to keep playing this?
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Old 08-10-2008, 07:57 PM   #62
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I said socialist and Communist Territories (Let me know when it sinks in)

As far as weapons goes stick to what you like I'll stick to what I like.

But in the end it was The good old ussr that passed them around.

to answer your question ,sure let's see how long we can keep this up.
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:01 PM   #63
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No, you said Soviet and Communist. (Actually, Sovet, but let's not be nitpicky)

The USSR didn't pass them around. You can blame China for that more then you can the USSR, and all those other pesky countries I listed which made their own independent variants.
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:04 PM   #64
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The point I'm trying to make is the Original Design came from where?
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:10 PM   #65
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The StG44. So we can blame the Nazi's now, right?

I kid, I kid. The original design came from the Soviet Union. Yes. However, the point I'm trying to make, is that has nothing to do with communism. The original design didn't come from some communist country, but a country that was called "Communist" by the West, and held a "Communist Party".

However, if you ever read Lenin, you would know the Communist Party was a Vanguard for the actual communist revolution to come by.
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:27 PM   #66
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That's the thing I didn't have any of the reading Materials,I didn't specialize in any of it to tell the truth my main focus in history leaned more along the lines ww1,ww2,Korea,and Vietnam. I have been trying to expand upon that though,I think it would come in handy for future conversations.
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:48 PM   #67
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Then let me give you a bit of an understanding on what the U.S.S.R. actually was. (This is a synopsis).

Way back when, after World War I, the Reds won over the Whites in the Russian Civil War. Lenin came to power, and firmly wanted Communism to come to Russia. He was also a Marxist.

The problem was, Lenin didn't think Marx's version of Communism would take place. The working class in Europe was better off through social programs, Capitalism had morphed from Marx's original vision, and Russia wasn't ready for Communism: Russia was still a feudal country, and was still mostly based on farms. It had very little factories, and factories were a heavy base for Marx's idea of a Communist revolution.

So Lenin basically said, "Fine, since we can't have a communist revolution now, I'll hold Russia over until it industrializes, and then we'll switch over to Communism". Because of that, he set up the Communist Vanguard. Over time, that eventually morphed in to the Communist Party.

It never actually reached any state of Communism, and it didn't really make a state of Socialism either. So when you say the Communists spread the AK-47, you're talking about the "Communists", who are only communist by name. They never really followed a lot of "Communist" ideas, either those set down by Marx, by Lenin, or by thinkers before them.
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:57 PM   #68
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Thanks for the info,it clears up a few things.

Pretty fun batnering back and fourth though.
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Old 08-10-2008, 10:06 PM   #69
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Have your banters about guns in a relevant thread, not this one. By the way, if you're going to study the world wars, get books written in several different countries, not just a one sided view from America.
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:35 AM   #70
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Don't get your political agenda from Indiana Jones. Just because in action flicks they spend the whole time saying 'Damn commies' doesn't mean that communism is shitty, people are such puppets to the media eh.
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:34 AM   #71
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I watched enough James Bond and played enough Red alert to know the Commies are no good.
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:16 PM   #72
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Don't get your political agenda from Indiana Jones. Just because in action flicks they spend the whole time saying 'Damn commies' doesn't mean that communism is shitty, people are such puppets to the media eh.
Quoted for Truth.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:29 PM   #73
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What the hell is so great about Communisim in the first place?
Could anybody explain how it would work?

Just the facts no b.s.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:31 PM   #74
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Equality is a good . Money is bad.
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Old 08-11-2008, 05:21 PM   #75
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What the hell is so great about Communisim in the first place?
Could anybody explain how it would work?

Just the facts no b.s.

Allow me to do one better for you. What's the benefits of capitalism? What's so great about capitalizing and privatizing the basic necessities of life?

Pure capitalism promotes the idea that without legal tender or a piece of paper, you don't eat. We breath oxygen, air... this isn't privatized. We don't really pay anyone for this... this, obligation to keep our lungs moving, this need.

Food and water. It's privatized. 2/3 of the very essence that keeps you alive is the domain of someone who probably don't give two shits about you. Who doesn't care if you starve. Yet, you may know how to start a fire. You may know how to hunt and fish. You may know how to garden. And even that, you have to appeal to some private institution or a single privateer to have the permission to sustain your life. Are you really comfortable with appealing to others for the privilege of just being alive?
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