The Essence of goth

[Zenit]

Hm...Just tossing out an idea...

Go with the two people-idea, but have them stand facing eachother on a sidewalk, and dress them in so many bits and pieces of gothic clothing as you can...

Or better yet, have those two stand in a yardsale or fleamarked with books and records, gas masks and what have you all around. I think it would capture the diversity of "goth", or at least be wicked cool. And yes, I realise it's an intensly difficult shot, just to get all the props assembled would be a pain...

Edited because my spelling sucks, and it probably will still.

[badteccy]

Originally Posted by IsolatedReptile

Perhaps just someone all done up doing something as banal as brushing their teeth in a normal looking bathroom (except maybe a few extra hair products).

Yea...I likes.

[cradle]

Originally Posted by Bloopie

do you think goths stand out anymore than a skater, a jock, or a [insert stereotype here] would if you did the same thing?

watch:

picture this guys...a bunch of goths, all disorderly all over the place moshing, and one lone business man standing there, military stance.

do you see what i mean? goths don't claim to be totally out of the norm, or really separate from humanity...they just claim to be artistic, and intellectuals. i think you are insulting their humanity by doing that...but i could be wrong...i don't speak for everyone.

to capture the true essence of goth...you'd need to really know what goth is first.

You made a good point.
Plus, the buisness man army with a "goth" in the middle reminds me of something I'de see when I search up "goth" in google.


Another thing, wouldn't anything just standing there stand out in this situation.

[Minyaliel]

Originally Posted by fetischfweek

so that would make alot of goths, not goth, if the music is what makes a goth, then what is the music? what do you class as goth music? ill listen to just about anything from static-x, the offspring, aqua, ill listen to anything

No need to listen to such crap - there's a thread in the music board where a newbie asks for musical advice, I believe. Read it, it contains lots of goodies. The three most famous gothic bands (the classics) would be Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus and Sisters of Mercy.

As for your picture, have you ever considered taking it in a coffee shop? I kind of have this picture in my head of a few goths (all wearing different styles of clothing, of course) sitting in a cosy coffee shop peacefully discussing literature/ music or something while their mundane/ upper class table neighbours are scandalized over their clothing and looks.

[Draconysius]

edible_eye?! I haven't seen you around here in ages! Where the bloody hell've you been?

Anyway, I like the Goth Bible. It leaves most of the goth defining to people the author surveyed, but it does go a bit far in claiming goth is an ideology.

The essence of goth, to me, is having a great, near-obsessive liking for REAL goth music and also having an aesthetic for decadence; the frightening but somehow beautiful.

[Draconysius]

If you're looking for real goth music, check out Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Virgin Prunes, Ausgang and Theatre of Hate. That's gothic rock.

As for industrial, check out Throbbing Gristle and Einsturzende Neubauten. I don't know much about industrial.

Darkwave goes to the Cruxshadows, Clan of Xymox, and Diary of Dreams.

Deathrock essentials include 45 Grave, Alien Sex Fiend, Sex Gang Children, and UK Decay.

All of these different genres fit into goth music. They can be thought of as brothers; each looking and sounding slightly different, but all coming from the same family.

[Vyvian Blackthorne]

Originally Posted by Draconysius

edible_eye?! I haven't seen you around here in ages! Where the bloody hell've you been?

Anyway, I like the Goth Bible. It leaves most of the goth defining to people the author surveyed, but it does go a bit far in claiming goth is an ideology.

The essence of goth, to me, is having a great, near-obsessive liking for REAL goth music and also having an aesthetic for decadence; the frightening but somehow beautiful.

The Goth Bible, to me, was very satiffying. I don't think it went far at all, it was a perfect little book to me. Well nothing's perfect but...eh...the essence of goth is hard for me to define, and if so it's more than just one definition. Though I do think it's a general appreciation to seeing the art and beauty in darkness. It could even be a stradgedy to understand the light, but I don't think I should get complex with such.
And then, of course, the second pillar and essence is the music-it's become and I must admit I can't say I'd see a long-time goth buying Disturbed or Pantera's hit albums...So the music is a modern foundation for truthfully being goth.

[Vyvian Blackthorne]

Originally Posted by Draconysius

If you're looking for real goth music, check out Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Virgin Prunes, Ausgang and Theatre of Hate. That's gothic rock.

As for industrial, check out Throbbing Gristle and Einsturzende Neubauten. I don't know much about industrial.

Darkwave goes to the Cruxshadows, Clan of Xymox, and Diary of Dreams.

Deathrock essentials include 45 Grave, Alien Sex Fiend, Sex Gang Children, and UK Decay.

All of these different genres fit into goth music. They can be thought of as brothers; each looking and sounding slightly different, but all coming from the same family.

Finally, we've got someone with REAL Industrial listings. Oh and don't for get Christian Death

[whispertwist]

All the pictures I've seen that make goth friends go "YES!" are pictures that capture the sense of community. Some of them were concert pictures, or Convergence or Whitby pictures; some were reaction shots of normals.

The pictures I've seen that make goth friends close their eyes in appreciation are juxtaposition shots of life amidst death: the struggling flower vine on a gravestone, the wind-contorted bristlecone pine growing on a rocky cliff.

So I would try for pictures that embody the esthetic or that define the fellowship.

[Draconysius]

Originally Posted by Vyvian Blackthorne

The Goth Bible, to me, was very satiffying. I don't think it went far at all, it was a perfect little book to me. Well nothing's perfect but...eh...the essence of goth is hard for me to define, and if so it's more than just one definition. Though I do think it's a general appreciation to seeing the art and beauty in darkness. It could even be a stradgedy to understand the light, but I don't think I should get complex with such.
And then, of course, the second pillar and essence is the music-it's become and I must admit I can't say I'd see a long-time goth buying Disturbed or Pantera's hit albums...So the music is a modern foundation for truthfully being goth.

Goth the subculture started as a music genre. There was no goth ideology before the music. Sure, people like Poe, Neil Gaiman, and such may have aesthetics in line with goth culture, but if they don't listen to goth music, they're just not goth. It's like calling every political activist punk.

And keep in mind that I like... LOVE Pantera, as well as Korn, Hawthorne Heights, Chimaira, Diecast, and other metal, nu-metal, pop-punk, and metalcore bands. Goths can listen to whatever they want as long as they retain a profound love for actual goth music. To say goths can't listen to No Doubt once in a while would just be ignorant.

[KontanKarite]

Mmm...

I agree with Drac, but honestly, I can't relate to the pop rock bands at all.

t.A.T.u is good stuff though. LoL

Tori Amos and the like are quite nice as well.

[whispertwist]

Just as an aside, Neil Gaimon does listen to goth music as evidenced by his asking goth musicians to take part in his compilation music CD celebrating his writing. Whether or not he participates in other aspects of the goth community, i have no idea.

I am having trouble with not classifying Poe as goth. It is most certainly true that he could not have participated in the goth community and that music is a fundamental lynchpin of the community. However, he is the very embodiment of the esthetic that is the other lynchpin.

So how would you classify modern people who are deeply involved in the music of the scene, but who do not participate in the community?

Maybe I am just uncomfortable with labels and pigeonholes when individuals are so quirky. Of course for iconic photographs, one would want to cater to stereotypes to a certain extent.

*grins* maybe goth is like my definitions of dancing. if you think you are dancing, you are.

[Vyvian Blackthorne]

Originally Posted by Draconysius

Goth the subculture started as a music genre. There was no goth ideology before the music. Sure, people like Poe, Neil Gaiman, and such may have aesthetics in line with goth culture, but if they don't listen to goth music, they're just not goth. It's like calling every political activist punk.

And keep in mind that I like... LOVE Pantera, as well as Korn, Hawthorne Heights, Chimaira, Diecast, and other metal, nu-metal, pop-punk, and metalcore bands. Goths can listen to whatever they want as long as they retain a profound love for actual goth music. To say goths can't listen to No Doubt once in a while would just be ignorant.

I know that, but as a common generalization of the musical tastes. Per say, if you were browsing and saw two low priced CDs between No Doubt and Specimen, what would you pick first? I know, we appreicate all kinds of genres-but as a subculture we must know what comes first.

[alshio]

Originally Posted by fetischfweek

What am i trying to comunicate? That being goth isnt a bad thing, its just a thing

If that's what your trying to communicate with your photographs I would suggest going with isolatedreptile's idea of goths in everyday situations. Have a series of pictures (thus you'll be able to convey the diversity within goth culture) of goths brushing their teeth, grocery shopping, cooking, etc - really mundane stuff that everybody does. Also you could take the madonna image and have a goth mother with a normal child.

Minyaliel's coffee shop idea is a good one, although I wouldn't have the group only goths - have a mixture of people with some who just happen to be goths. I also wouldn't show other people's horrified reaction to the goths as that will convey that they're unacceptable to wider society (while that is true, it's not what your trying to convey). Focus on the group. I wouldn't even bother including others in the frame.

[KontanKarite]

Alshio, is right. That is perfect. But I must admit, I beat him to it.

[Draconysius]

Originally Posted by whispertwist

Just as an aside, Neil Gaimon does listen to goth music as evidenced by his asking goth musicians to take part in his compilation music CD celebrating his writing. Whether or not he participates in other aspects of the goth community, i have no idea.

I was using him as an example. It wasn't to be taken literally.

Originally Posted by whispertwist

I am having trouble with not classifying Poe as goth. It is most certainly true that he could not have participated in the goth community and that music is a fundamental lynchpin of the community. However, he is the very embodiment of the esthetic that is the other lynchpin.
So how would you classify modern people who are deeply involved in the music of the scene, but who do not participate in the community?

Plenty of people out there are goth-minded but do not participate in the community. I don't think I have to tell you they're not goth. Once again, this goes back to the questions raised in the "goth vs. poser" thread. Goths are often intellectual, artistic, and inquisitive. But so are Harvard professors and Buddhist monks. They're certainly not goth.

[knightmare]

All these goth "facts" about music and poetry trouble me. I am surprised that noone has discussed the true essence of goth, as portrayed in the media. Obviously, true goths have the following characteristics:
1. Killing small pets such as hamsters to appease the lords of darkness
2. Reading books of authors that use so much jargon that they read like scientific papers
3. Preferring books made by suicidal authors such as Hemingway, Poe, etc
4. Wearing clothes that resemble those of historical American colonists
5. Holding inspirational and life-changing debates such as the cursed fates of the emo tribe
6. Posting several pictures of oneself in clothing that would confuse and depress circus clowns
7. Wearing black to the point that they are better concealed at night than the Navy Seals
8. Listening to bands who would make great bathroom music since their songs sound like the distressed screams and cries of the constipated

[MollyMac]

a pic of goths out gothing each other? bickering about what is goth versus emo versus industrial versus...

[MollyMac]

It may sound counter to Goth, but I think the more minimal the image the better, not to get lost in a lush clutter...

[Zenit]

Hmm...

(frog perspective) A man in a grey buisness suit turning away from the camera with a bit of black lace peeking out of his sleeve. Or a lot of lace?

[MollyMac]

I like the idea of Draconysis (who I see, visually, as "Goth"- and that is not a bad thing, mind you. He's quite lovely, methinks.) in a vintage record store, no one around him, running his fingers over random discs, face up, eyes closed, the look on his face is that of someone obviously not finding what they are looking for, but looking nonetheless, and it's too bright outside to leave.

[killer_asian_Dax]

The more I read the thread title, the more I feel like I should be seeing an old victorian style perfume spritzer with the title "Essence of Goth" on it.

[MollyMac]

What, like "Goth Extract"?

I add mine to cakes and the occasional pudding.

[Godslayer Jillian]

I bet you Essence of Goth would smell like roses, musky books, and pretty bats.

[MollyMac]

Like "Gothchouli"?

Gothourri?

I would add leather and firefly bioluminesence to that blend