Gothic.net News Horror Gothic Lifestyle Fiction Movies Books and Literature Dark TV VIP Horror Professionals Professional Writing Tips Links Gothic Forum




Go Back   Gothic.net Community > Boards > Politics

Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-31-2012, 02:08 AM   #226
Miss Absynthe
 
Miss Absynthe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
It is, and I don't believe any one approach would stop everyone hell-bent on carrying out a mass killing with 100% certainty. I do think that it is possible to stop some - if you can catch them before they get set in motion. This is why I was advocating earlier for better access to mental health care - the time to stop these guys is not necessarily at the point of purchase, although I don't think it's a bad idea to do some kind of psych screening there just in case.
Have you actually read this thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
The goal shouldn't be keeping guns away from poor people, it's about keeping them out of the hands of people who will misuse them.
I agree totally. And mental illness is not the cause of gun violence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
...it's becoming more clear that not doing anything at all is not a viable strategy.
Why is it becoming more clear only now?
Miss Absynthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 09:26 AM   #227
Jonathan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: northeast us
Posts: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe View Post
Have you actually read this thread?
Yes. Are you aware that it is possible for two people to read the same thing and have a different interpretation of what it means? That your personal experience is not the one true divine revelation?

Quote:
I agree totally. And mental illness is not the cause of gun violence.
All gun violence? No. Some gun violence? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allen_Muhammad

Quote:
Why is it becoming more clear only now?
Because even the NRA and the President of the United States are beginning to consider that something needs to be done. Now it's a matter of figuring out what and how.
Jonathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 11:58 AM   #228
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
I'm pretty sure straw purchases for firearms are not legal, if she is located in the US she admitted on an internet forum to making fraudulent statements on a Federal form. I ain't a lawyer or nothing, but

"12a. Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring
the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to
you. (See Important Notice 1 for actual buyer definition and examples.)" seems pretty cut and dry. If they gave each other hundreds of dollars in cash or gift certificates with which to make the purchases, then they are cool, but actually buying a glock or whatever to wrap up in a box for someone else is a no-no.
It depends on the state, from what every website on the matter can tell me. Even then, a lot of people seem to have gotten guns as gifts, legal or no: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/proud-gu...gram-1.1092096 and http://www.wate.com/story/20341935/m...wives-children Seems the gun Lanza and Holmes used was an extremely popular gift this year. This site talks about the different state laws, some laws you can give guns with no law saying you can't, other require transfer paperwork: http://www.nssfblog.com/giving-a-fir...ers-from-nssf/ But its not the same across the board.


Quote:
The "gun show loophole" applies to any private seller - any actual FFL still needs to do the standard background check and so forth, that just applies to sales between private individuals, for example if you decide you want to sell a gun of yours when gun-dealing is not your primary profession, and it can only be done between state residents. Out of state, it has to be conducted through an FFL. Personally I think it should have to be done through an FFL regardless.
Yeah, but its still mighty easy for someone to avoid a background check and get their hands on one, no? Even then, a lot of people can buy a gun in their name and intend it for the family to use, like my cousin has a hunting rifle her husband bought because she lives out in the middle of nowhere and is afraid of coyotes and bears and shit. Its not in her name, but she has access to it and can use it.

Quote:
I hear you for sure on this one, and knowing a gun nut or two, it could be a problem. A big one. I don't see an easy answer to this. Actual efforts to enforce this would have to be handled, well, diplomatically, to avoid having a siege. I just don't think doing nothing is the way to go.
You know I'm Canadian and I can count on one hand the number of times I've encountered a gun in my life, right? And even if its impossible to have a wholesale ban on guns, I don't really see the right to bear assault rifles that can kill a significant amount of people in a short period of time is what the forefathers intended.

Quote:
It is, and I don't believe any one approach would stop everyone hell-bent on carrying out a mass killing with 100% certainty. I do think that it is possible to stop some - if you can catch them before they get set in motion. This is why I was advocating earlier for better access to mental health care - the time to stop these guys is not necessarily at the point of purchase, although I don't think it's a bad idea to do some kind of psych screening there just in case.
Except that a) from what we know, Lanza, Holmes, Harris and Klebold at least had excellent access to mental health care, took advantage of it and had several people concerned about them. There was no way that mental healthcare being expensive has anything to do with rich/well off white guys. Unless you're saying everyone should be forced to go to therapy, there's no way that even if it is accessible that everyone will take advantage of it or want it. And as I pointed out earlier, screening is a joke because I don't think its rare at all that mentally ill people know exactly what to say on a questionairre, and if you're worried about sociopaths, they're very very good at lying and conning.

There's no way to say assault rifles are a right but we should discriminate against the mentally ill to prevent anyone from misusing them. No way.

Quote:
I'd like to see it covered by tax payers, just the like current cost for the NICS background check, the person at the counter buying a gun doesn't foot the bill for that. Of course I'd like public option health care and a pony, even though those will probably not happen. Still, raising the cost for the individual isn't the answer. The goal shouldn't be keeping guns away from poor people, it's about keeping them out of the hands of people who will misuse them. I don't want rich people or anyone else being irresponsible or malicious with a gun. Casting too wide a net is definitely a problem, you don't want to disenfranchise someone on a whim, but it's becoming more clear that not doing anything at all is not a viable strategy.
A background check is a relatively easy thing to do. It costs like what, twenty dollars here to get one done, its not exactly a huge expense, when a therapist could be up to 200 dollars an hour rate. Its seriously expensive, and even in Canada not everyone can just waltz in and see a therapist free of charge whenever they want, there's a screening process to put you on a priority list, unless you're suicidal you're probably going to be waiting months. There simply aren't enough doctors with enough free time to talk to any Tom Dick or Harry who wants a gun for however long it would take them to give them a clean bill of mental health, and like Miss Absynthe said, most people are not the picture of mental health so it would either mean very very few people would be allowed to have a gun or psychologists would just have to draw a line somewhere on what's too mentally ill to be owning a gun, it would probably take a long time to figure out if a person is fit to have a gun, adding more to the costs to the taxpayer, and considering the ongoing discrimination against trans* people alone in the psychological community I'm not confident that it would be fair either.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 12:07 PM   #229
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Oh, apparently, if you're buying the gun as a gift, yes you are the buyer, no one is giving you money to buy it for them, which would be a straw purchase. So as long as no money exchanges hands, that question has nothing to do with gift giving.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 12:23 PM   #230
Versus
 
Versus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
Jonathan, what mental illness did the DC snipers have? Go ahead. I'll wait.
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.


-Breathin, Tupac.
Versus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 12:34 PM   #231
Jonathan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: northeast us
Posts: 887
Oh, apparently buying a gun as a gift might not be a straw purchase - guess that one's a state issue instead of federal.

"for purposes of this form, you are the actual buyer if you are purchasing the
firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (for example, redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment). You are also the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm as a legitimate gift for a third party.
ACTUAL BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for
Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT the actual buyer of the firearm and must answer “no “ to question 12a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual buyer of the firearm and should answer “yes” to question 12a."

Wow. Seems just as bad if not worse than any gun-show loophole. Would like to see that done away with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Versus View Post
Jonathan, what mental illness did the DC snipers have? Go ahead. I'll wait.
Sheldon said that a psychiatrist has diagnosed Muhammad as "psychotic,
delusional and paranoid and that he suffers from schizophrenia."

"This diagnosis" said Sheldon, "is confirmed by objective evidence." Sheldon
said that neuropsychological brain imaging applications have demonstrated that John Muhammad has neuropsychological deficits that are consistent with
schizophrenia, and point to "brain dysfunction."

Sheldon also said that MRI brain scans of John Muhammad show that "he has three congenital malformations in his brain, two of which are found with greater frequency in people with schizophrenia, and one of which is a shrunken cortex, confirming the brain damage."

Psychiatrist Richard Dudley reviewed all the mental health information and
concluded that John Muhammad certainly has a "severe mental illness" of the type that the National Alliance on Mental Illness and Murder Victims` Families for Human Rights have described when they advocate against the execution of the severely mentally ill. Dr. Dudley noted that John Muhammad`s mental illness certainly played a role both in his crimes, and his behavior at trial.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/...009+BW20091104
Jonathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 01:08 PM   #232
Versus
 
Versus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
Okay. And can you show that his diagnosis was the cause of his crimes?
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.


-Breathin, Tupac.
Versus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 01:48 PM   #233
Jonathan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: northeast us
Posts: 887
The crime was a result of his mental processes, mental processes that were impaired by his mental illness.

This is like asking me to prove that it was actually the alcohol that caused a drunk driver to crash. Maybe the guy in the car just felt like hitting that telephone pole independently of his chemical impairment. It's silly.
Jonathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 02:39 PM   #234
Miss Absynthe
 
Miss Absynthe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
Yes. Are you aware that it is possible for two people to read the same thing and have a different interpretation of what it means? That your personal experience is not the one true divine revelation?
There's no need for the snarky pants.

To characterise my posts as being solely driven from personal experience is a nice derailment. It's true that I've touched on my own experiences of having mental illness, but that has been a very minor part of my conversation.

Your contribution has been based on fear and bias and a sense of entitlement.. throwing in a wiki article doesn't make that any less so.


Quote:
All gun violence? No. Some gun violence? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allen_Muhammad
In the same way that some people without mental illness will cause violence, it is true that some people with mental illness will cause violence.

The factor behind the violence isn't that they are mentally ill - if it were then we would rarely see people without mental illness being the perpetrators of violence.


The irony of this one appearing in a conversation about guns quite amuses me..

Quote:
Because even the NRA and the President of the United States are beginning to consider that something needs to be done. Now it's a matter of figuring out what and how.
Why do you think that they are considering something needs to be done now? Gun violence in the US is not a new thing..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
The crime was a result of his mental processes, mental processes that were impaired by his mental illness.

This is like asking me to prove that it was actually the alcohol that caused a drunk driver to crash. Maybe the guy in the car just felt like hitting that telephone pole independently of his chemical impairment. It's silly.
Yes, it is EXACTLY like your example.. and as you've just pointed out - CORRELATION DOESN'T MEAN CAUSE.
Miss Absynthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 03:47 PM   #235
Jonathan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: northeast us
Posts: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe View Post
There's no need for the snarky pants.


Are... are you TONE POLICING (ZOMG) me?

Quote:
To characterise my posts as being solely driven from personal experience is a nice derailment. It's true that I've touched on my own experiences of having mental illness, but that has been a very minor part of my conversation.
My opinion in this matter differs from yours. Why do you ask if I was reading the thread? Is your assumption that I think differently from you has to be due to failing to experience the same data that you experience, and that if I had then my opinion would have to mirror yours?

Quote:
Your contribution has been based on fear and bias and a sense of entitlement.. throwing in a wiki article doesn't make that any less so.[/color]
Mental illness affects the minds of people suffering from them, hence the name. Conscious actions follow decisions. Decisions are mental processes. You're making it sound like it is some fantastic leap in logic to assume a connection between the result of a mental process and the mental processes that construct it. It's where the decisions come from in the first place!

Quote:
In the same way that some people without mental illness will cause violence, it is true that some people with mental illness will cause violence.

The factor behind the violence isn't that they are mentally ill - if it were then we would rarely see people without mental illness being the perpetrators of violence.
The factor behind violence is the decision to enact it. Where do decisions come from?

Are actual bullseyes just unrelated manifestations of pure random chance? How do you prove it? http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/284...accounting.png

So you do not accept there is a link between psychological illness / damage in the example of John Muhamad or his abusive relationship with Malvo, and their actions. Their decisions were made in a void unrelated to their psychological makeup? All context is incidental?

Quote:
Why do you think that they are considering something needs to be done now? Gun violence in the US is not a new thing..
Because an event occurred that is causing people to look for possible preventative measures to try to prevent re-occurrences. The deaths of a lot of children in one horrible tragedy apparently affects people. Crazy.

Quote:
Yes, it is EXACTLY like your example.. and as you've just pointed out - CORRELATION DOESN'T MEAN CAUSE.
This completely eludes me. You keep saying CORRELATION DOESN'T MEAN CAUSE like it is a mantra. Do you think all correlation is inherently useless? That correlated data HAS to be flawed because there is a correlation?
Jonathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 04:26 PM   #236
Miss Absynthe
 
Miss Absynthe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
Mental illness affects the minds of people suffering from them, hence the name. Conscious actions follow decisions. Decisions are mental processes. You're making it sound like it is some fantastic leap in logic to assume a connection between the result of a mental process and the mental processes that construct it. It's where the decisions come from in the first place!

The factor behind violence is the decision to enact it. Where do decisions come from?
Physical illness affects the minds of people suffering from them. People who aren't suffering from either a physical or a mental illness make bad decisions and commit poorly thought out conscious actions.

To say that the mind is only affected by mental illness is untrue, to say that only mental illness affects the mind is untrue.

I'm not "making it sound like it is some fantastic leap in logic...", it simply IS a mis-leap in logic.


Quote:
Because an event occurred that is causing people to look for possible preventative measures to try to prevent re-occurrences. The deaths of a lot of children in one horrible tragedy apparently affects people. Crazy.
Because the people who were the victims this time were privileged.
Miss Absynthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 04:46 PM   #237
Jonathan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: northeast us
Posts: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe View Post
Physical illness affects the minds of people suffering from them. People who aren't suffering from either a physical or a mental illness make bad decisions and commit poorly thought out conscious actions.

To say that the mind is only affected by mental illness is untrue, to say that only mental illness affects the mind is untrue.

I'm not "making it sound like it is some fantastic leap in logic...", it simply IS a mis-leap in logic.
I'm not saying that the mind is only affected by mental illness. I am not saying only mental illness affects the mind. I am saying that mental illness affects the mind, and you are arguing with me over this. What does mental illness affect, if not the mind? It no make sense.

Quote:
Because the people who were the victims this time were privileged.
Wow. That's an extraordinarily callous thing to say. I have no other words for this one.
Jonathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 04:53 PM   #238
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Its not, its true. The nation didn't have a crisis when brown people were killed by a white supremacist earlier this year, its only when white people die that anyone cares.

And she's pointing out that mental illness is not responsible for every mental process you have. Even the worst of schizophrenic can have very normal thoughts and processes. You might think someone is poisoning all the milk in the world and avoid drinking milk because of it, but that doesn't mean you can't go throughout the rest of your day as normal as anyone else. There was a lot going on with the DC snipers, including poverty and racism, and one possible motive was killing his ex wife and using the other murders as a way of saying it was the result of a serial killer, not someone close to her.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 05:05 PM   #239
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
And before anyone says its because its kids, how many remember the Cleveland School massacre in 1989, where most of the victims were South Asian children?
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 05:08 PM   #240
Jonathan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: northeast us
Posts: 887
Privileged family http://www.thesavvysista.com/2012/12...ist-jimmy.html

Mass murder is not a normal thought or process.
Jonathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 05:15 PM   #241
Miss Absynthe
 
Miss Absynthe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
I'll try to track down the case studies for it, but I'm not sure about my journal access until semester starts again because I withdrew from my subjects last year... but -

In Australia, one of the foundation cases for informed consent with regards to the mentally ill was a man who had schizophrenia and who was also a diabetic. He ended up with gangrene (due to vascular insufficiency secondary to his diabetes) and was advised that his leg would need to be amputated, or he would end up dying of sepsis.

He refused surgery because one of the only joys that he had in life was dancing, and he decided that he would rather live a small number of months and still be able to dance than live the rest of a long life without his leg.

His doctors petitioned the courts to have them overthrow his decision, because he had a history of schizophrenia and (in their opinion) obviously wasn't making a healthy or sane decision... they argued that his decision making processes were impaired by his illness.

The courts decided that he was actually able to make his own choice when it came to what was happening, and that even though his doctors mightn't agree with what he'd decided, his rights to have agency over his own medical decisions should be upheld. They found that this man, who suffered with a mental illness, was able to make a decision - that not all his decisions were results of his mental illness.. even the ones that don't make sense to others.
Miss Absynthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 05:17 PM   #242
Versus
 
Versus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
I'm not saying that the mind is only affected by mental illness. I am not saying only mental illness affects the mind. I am saying that mental illness affects the mind, and you are arguing with me over this. What does mental illness affect, if not the mind? It no make sense.
She's reminding you of other things because you're using this to support your evidence-less assertions that the presence of a mental illness is the only thing necessary to commit this kind of violence.

That is what you're still trying to argue, isn't it?
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.


-Breathin, Tupac.
Versus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 05:20 PM   #243
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
Privileged family http://www.thesavvysista.com/2012/12...ist-jimmy.html

Mass murder is not a normal thought or process.
Are you really holding up a picture of a dead black girl, as a white man who denies racism is a problem, and saying because one victim was black, the others white, that it somehow cancels out the fact that this was an affluent mostly white school?
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 05:24 PM   #244
Miss Absynthe
 
Miss Absynthe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
I don't understand the point that you're making with posting this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
Mass murder is not a normal thought or process.
No, it isn't a normal though or process.

And in the same way that it isn't the direct result of being male, being white, being blonde.. it isn't the direct result of a mental illness.

It's just easy to hang the blame on a classifier that belongs to a marginalised group of people.. because if we say that anyone can kill, then we admit that everyone is a possible perpetrator and that is a scary thought.

It's just easy to look around and try to find one simple answer to an impossible-to-answer question, instead of admitting that it's a complex situation that we don't understand.. because if we admit that we don't understand it, then we admit that it's likely to happen again and that idea scares the shit out of us.
Miss Absynthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 05:25 PM   #245
Versus
 
Versus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
There's a word for what you just did.

Quote:
Mass murder is not a normal thought or process.
I think we've already told you about the problems with the yes/no normal/crazy formula that you're using to understand this.

Suicide is an example. It's not something most people do. It is something that most people consider.
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.


-Breathin, Tupac.
Versus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 05:35 PM   #246
Miss Absynthe
 
Miss Absynthe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versus View Post
Suicide is an example. It's not something most people do. It is something that most people consider.
And to further that example, it is something that most people would argue isn't a mentally healthy choice...

- unless you have a terminal illness - we might not agree with euthanasia, but we can understand someone not wanting to die a painful and degrading death.

- and perhaps if you develop some sort of condition that may not be terminal but that is going to mean that you will have no quality of life - we might not agree with it, but we can understand someone not wanting to live a painful and degrading life.

Which then raises the question why it is ok for someone with a physical illness to make that decision, but if someone with a mental illness wants to decide the same thing it is seen as a invalid choice?

...that's probably for a different thread, though.
Miss Absynthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 05:40 PM   #247
Versus
 
Versus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
And then there's suicide as having cultural significance. Similar to, gasp, mass murder.
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.


-Breathin, Tupac.
Versus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 05:41 PM   #248
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe View Post
And to further that example, it is something that most people would argue isn't a mentally healthy choice...

- unless you have a terminal illness - we might not agree with euthanasia, but we can understand someone not wanting to die a painful and degrading death.

- and perhaps if you develop some sort of condition that may not be terminal but that is going to mean that you will have no quality of life - we might not agree with it, but we can understand someone not wanting to live a painful and degrading life.

Which then raises the question why it is ok for someone with a physical illness to make that decision, but if someone with a mental illness wants to decide the same thing it is seen as a invalid choice?

...that's probably for a different thread, though.
And to apply this to murder, no one was blaming mental illness with the shooting at the Sikh Temple. We heard he was a Neo-Nazi, and we were all pretty much like "oh, well, that explains it." because its a senseless mass murder, but we know that if one accepts Nazism, this is the logical conclusion of that set of beliefs.

I don't think everyone who is pro-life is psychotic or mentally ill defacto even though their push to criminalize abortion would kill women, nor do I think those that target abortion doctors insane because I know that is the natural conclusion to the logic that abortion is murder.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 05:59 PM   #249
ape descendant
 
ape descendant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Smexyville, Colorado
Posts: 2,424
Man, I see some one doesn't bother to read the insightful things that experts write that I post. You suck.
__________________
******

Be Kind
ape descendant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 07:08 PM   #250
Jonathan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: northeast us
Posts: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya View Post
Are you really holding up a picture of a dead black girl, as a white man who denies racism is a problem, and saying because one victim was black, the others white, that it somehow cancels out the fact that this was an affluent mostly white school?
No, it's a response to the bullshit stupid bad dumb argument that "privileged people don't care about people who aren't privileged". God what an infuriatingly terrible belief. Leaving aside of course that not believing racism is the sole exclusive social problem is not the same thing as denying racism is A problem. It's not about whether it 'cancels out' the race or economic standing of the school, it's that murdering children is really awful! Who gives a fuck what their income bracket or race is? Other than you, I guess. WOW.

Quote:
And to apply this to murder, no one was blaming mental illness with the shooting at the Sikh Temple. We heard he was a Neo-Nazi, and we were all pretty much like "oh, well, that explains it." because its a senseless mass murder, but we know that if one accepts Nazism, this is the logical conclusion of that set of beliefs.

I don't think everyone who is pro-life is psychotic or mentally ill defacto even though their push to criminalize abortion would kill women, nor do I think those that target abortion doctors insane because I know that is the natural conclusion to the logic that abortion is murder.
David Berkowitz followed his delusional belief set to it's logical conclusion. Do you think he was sane?
Jonathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:43 PM.