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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 09-18-2012, 10:37 PM   #26
AshleyO
 
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Alan...

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewa...nt-47-percent/

You know...

Hmph.
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:55 AM   #27
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Yeah, that's the problem - acknowledging shades of grey is all well and good, but I struggle to see "Well there are way bigger dickholes than Romney around!" as a reason to actively like the guy.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:10 AM   #28
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Except that that's why a lot of the left also like Obama.
Should I not like Obama either because he immediately acknowledged Peña Nieto as President of Mexico regardless of electoral fraud? Does liking Obama make me a traitor to my country thus?
Should I fuck off for liking him despite of doing something most of Mexico won't forgive? Should YOU also fuck off for not giving two shits about Mexico to even know that fact? Is that how the world works?

The truth is that if you can't see why I said that I sort of like Romney, and don't even care of WHY I'm saying that, you'll all end up being hypocrites in the end, because there will be a limit at which you will have to set a double standard because you also can't possibly like every single fucking detail of every single fucking person you've ever liked, supported, used as an example, or even just spoken sympathetically about.
Maybe I have a point when I speak about even the good things Stalin did, instead of choosing the pussy-ass politically correct approach of not ever speaking about anyone with even an iota of bad rep and pretending those who are seen by the general public as infallible because god forbid we ever deal with political leaders as inconsistent people.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:52 AM   #29
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Dude, cool your jets; there's a difference between seeing your point but remaining to be convinced, and being too grindingly stupid to understand any part of your argument.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:16 AM   #30
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I was cool; you should know by now how I speak. It is now that I'm actually pissed, because there's nothing I hate more in forums than people whining about HOW one says shit instead of WHAT that shit is.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:07 AM   #31
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I was cool; you should know by now how I speak. It is now that I'm actually pissed, because there's nothing I hate more in forums than people whining about HOW one says shit instead of WHAT that shit is.
Holy shit this.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:29 AM   #32
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I noticed I didn't actually finish my last paragraph:

Maybe I have a point when I speak about even the good things Stalin did, instead of choosing the pussy-ass politically correct approach of not ever speaking about anyone with even an iota of bad rep and pretending those who are seen favorably by the general public are infallible because god forbid we ever deal with political leaders as inconsistent people.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:07 PM   #33
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Holy shit this.
That's funny that you would agree with Alan's feeling that it's infuriating when people only look at how you say something and not what you say.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:59 PM   #34
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Are you referring to the 8 page thread where I was willfully and/or ignorantly taken out of context repeatedly, or the 3 page troll thread of ethnic slurs?

I'll see how keeping my ignore list empty goes, but I have a feeling that the occasional insightful post in a sea of memes wouldn't be a great loss.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:21 PM   #35
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I was referring to your responses to my posts. To me, it's funny that you would agree with Alan so much because you have demonstrated the opposite of that sentiment; you have literally responded exclusively to profanity, text size, punctuation, and terms you don't understand, rather then to what I was actually saying to you.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:45 PM   #36
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Pretty sure I responded to everyone, but might have missed a few in the ensuing dogpile. Once it becomes clear that I'm getting caught up in a bukake circle that's taken a sharp derail then it's time to throw my hands up and go look at pictures of puppies and kittens.

Call it tone policing if you want, but I think people can have a difference of opinion that doesn't have to degenerate into name calling or other forms of abuse, especially if it isn't even funny. If we can't have either a civil conversation or a hillarious one, then there's not much point. Sorry if I pissed in anybodies victimhood affirmation bowl of cornflakes.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:20 PM   #37
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It's funny that you would say that as out of everyone on these boards you are the only one who comes across as having a genuine victim complex and an inability to have a conversation that is either civil or entertaining.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:59 PM   #38
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So what happened to agreeing with Alan's post that it's infuriating when people respond to how you say something and not what you say?

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Pretty sure I responded to everyone, but might have missed a few in the ensuing dogpile. Once it becomes clear that I'm getting caught up in a bukake circle that's taken a sharp derail then it's time to throw my hands up and go look at pictures of puppies and kittens.
I'm inclined to believe you're being dishonest. Here's an example of before anybody else said something to you; it was just the two of us talking:

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Please explain what was sexist about approaching a person, expressing interest, and leaving them alone when they declined.
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Would you like to start with the part where somebody said they felt they were sexualized and subsequently was shouted down by fucking privileged Crack Von Patriarchs like you think what you have to say matters at all, or the part where you think you're entitled any sort of explanation when you can easily educate yourself?
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When you call me Cracker Von Patriarch, does that give me justification to feel that I am being sexually and racially discriminated against? It makes me feel really uncomfortable, so expect an outpouring of community backlash any day now. Once the White Knights figure out what direction to charge in there will be hell to pay.
Do you see how you literally didn't even respond to what I said? It's as if my post went like this:

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Would you like to start with the part where somebody said they felt they were sexualized and subsequently was shouted down by fucking privileged Crack Von Patriarchs like you think what you have to say matters at all, or the part where you think you're entitled any sort of explanation when you can easily educate yourself?
This wasn't you throwing your hands up and being frustrated. This was you getting defensive. That thread had nothing to do with you. It wasn't a personal attack upon you but you responded to a huge number of our posts as if it was, and that sentiment only intensified as the thread grew.

Quote:
Call it tone policing if you want, but I think people can have a difference of opinion that doesn't have to degenerate into name calling or other forms of abuse, especially if it isn't even funny. If we can't have either a civil conversation or a hillarious one, then there's not much point. Sorry if I pissed in anybodies victimhood affirmation bowl of cornflakes.
It is tone policing. You dismissed most of my posts because you felt they were "too emotional" or "too angry," and now you're implying that I am overly sensitive when you say I have a victim mentality. It is an increasingly progressive break down in logic: I have to be civil and refrain from expressing my emotions because it bothers you, but when I am bothered by you, I am being oversensitive. It's a double standard, Jonathan. It's a bag of tricks. So, aside from the clown car of wrongs that are done to people and deemed as normal, they also have to get past this when they even try to respond to it. When I make an emotionless remark, such as using the term Cracker Von Patriarch, you take it personally and feel it's an unprovoked attack on you because you're privileged enough to be blind to the things that are done to me.

It is a function of privilege for you. You don't have some of this shit as a major part of your life and it's easy for you to remain detached in conversations about them or even ignore that they exist at all, so of course you are going to see yourself as an objective speaker and to further expect me to refrain from any emotional response that makes you uncomfortable. I'm being irrational. I'm being hyperbolic, while you are logical, and civil, and collected.

If anyone is being a victim here, it's you for demanding that I cut this shit out while you rub it in my face.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:08 PM   #39
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I can only go in circles for so long saying "that's not what I said, here's what I said" before it turns in to pages and pages of "NUH UH YOU ARE" which is boring and trite. I refuse to take part in a third thread that becomes a multi-page epic of stupidity. Two was too many, and I'm done responding to ad hominem slap fights on the gothic dot net political forum.

I'm not demanding you do anything. Make whatever points or arguments or threads you want, anywhere on spectrum ranging the sublime to insipid. If I agree or disagree with something and feel like posting I will. When it gets to the point where I don't feel like there's any value in responding any more I figure it's nice to let you know a member of your audience is going to a new theater.

So yeah, I agree with Alan. I hope that is ok with everyone and we can move on with our fucking lives now.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:22 PM   #40
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The line about "It makes me feel really uncomfortable, so expect an outpouring of community backlash any day now" was made as fascetiously as possible, and I figured that intent was pretty clear. I guess it wasn't. So if I need to use sarcasm tags to avoid drama I'll slap 'em in as needed.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:26 PM   #41
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Um...yeah I think everyone here gathered that you were being sarcastic, that was not the issue.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:26 PM   #42
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I don't know why you feel you need to reiterate that. I know that it was sarcasm.

I said that you did not respond to my post. I said that you only responded to the term Cracker Von Patriarch, and that statement remains true.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:34 PM   #43
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cricket cricket
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:44 PM   #44
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Sorry I didn't know I was being graded on response time. Hard to believe but I do have other obligations than clicking reply fast enough here. /.sarcasm

I still think the elevatorgate fiasco was a trumped up affair, and if my thinking so is that bothersome I am very sorry. Somehow amidst all the words and care no one seemed to bother with the fact that not even the woman thought it was a big deal.

Tell you what - I was wrong and you won the Elevatorgate argument. I am perfectly fine with having an opinion on it that you or others find objectionable. I appreciate all the interest in my meaningless off hand opinions in that thread and others.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:06 PM   #45
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Okay and actually on topic: Alan I get where you are coming from and I agree that we should be able to openly discuss the good qualities of atrocious people as well as the awful things about good people, because human beings are not pure good or pure evil and there is a lot that can be learned and gained by acknowledging a person in their entirety.

That being said I disagree about Romney, back when he started his presidential campaign I may have agreed to some degree but at some point, and I really can't say exactly when, the things he has said and done have gone beyond pandering to the extreme elements of the Republican party. I don't know if saying and doing those things for so long made him start to believe them or if it was pandering to a more liberal state that hid his true colors until now, either way he no longer stands for the same things that he stood for in the past but it isn't just that. It would be easy to say that he is out of touch and doesn't understand the struggles that people face but I don't see ignorance in his actions, I don't hear it in his words, I mean yes, he has no idea what actually constitutes "middle class" but that isn't what I mean. What I see is someone who knows what the consequences of the stances he has taken are, he knows that people will and in fact are suffering because of words he has spoken, he simply does not care. To me that is inexcusable.

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I still think the elevatorgate fiasco was a trumped up affair, and if my thinking so is that bothersome I am very sorry. Somehow amidst all the words and care no one seemed to bother with the fact that not even the woman thought it was a big deal.

Tell you what - I was wrong and you won the Elevatorgate argument. I am perfectly fine with having an opinion on it that you or others find objectionable. I appreciate all the interest in my meaningless off hand opinions in that thread and others.
And again that is the issue, you never bothered to try and understand what the actual problem was. There are only so many different ways to put it so I'm just going to quote myself
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Nobody is saying that elevator guy is a terrible person, nobody is saying that what he did is life threatening. What we are saying, what she said is that it is a very uncomfortable situation and hey can you please not do that because it makes us uncomfortable and does not promote an inclusive, welcoming environment, which is a problem within the community, and honestly society as a whole.

That is the message that was put out and that is what people responded to with hate, anger, vitriol, and dismissal. This response is what we are angry about.
You have a habit of seeing things as individual events, as self-contained little bubbles and I understand why you do that. It is human nature to want to simplify and compartmentalize things but some things have to be viewed in context, they need the broader picture to be understood.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:17 PM   #46
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Okay and actually on topic: Alan I get where you are coming from and I agree that we should be able to openly discuss the good qualities of atrocious people as well as the awful things about good people, because human beings are not pure good or pure evil and there is a lot that can be learned and gained by acknowledging a person in their entirety.

That being said I disagree about Romney, back when he started his presidential campaign I may have agreed to some degree but at some point, and I really can't say exactly when, the things he has said and done have gone beyond pandering to the extreme elements of the Republican party. I don't know if saying and doing those things for so long made him start to believe them or if it was pandering to a more liberal state that hid his true colors until now, either way he no longer stands for the same things that he stood for in the past but it isn't just that. It would be easy to say that he is out of touch and doesn't understand the struggles that people face but I don't see ignorance in his actions, I don't hear it in his words, I mean yes, he has no idea what actually constitutes "middle class" but that isn't what I mean. What I see is someone who knows what the consequences of the stances he has taken are, he knows that people will and in fact are suffering because of words he has spoken, he simply does not care. To me that is inexcusable.
You should calm the fuck down. That's not how to make civil conversation and you're out of control.

But yeah, I get you. Even if a person is pretty cool about some things, I completely understand if there is just one thing that someone absolutely can't abide by. It's not my place to judge how someone wants to prioritize what is important to them, and doubly so if it's not something I can be involved in.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:27 PM   #47
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You should calm the fuck down. That's not how to make civil conversation and you're out of control.
For your information I like it when my blood boils, it is my preferred state of being.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:39 PM   #48
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I thought it was a big deal. She handled her situation in her own way. But she told you why it was bad that it ever happened in the first place. The community backlash was disgusting and terrifying.

It tells me that I won't feel safe anywhere and if I try to say something to make places feel safer for me, I will be ridiculed and thrown to the streets. I find that to be a big fucking deal.

You keep ignoring that and telling us, "she was okay with it, why bother"? I'm not okay with it, there are many other people not okay with it.

So a reply from one person's capabilities of being able to handle a single situation accounts for every other person in countless other situations just like that one?

How about this, I was hit on while serving. I was working, with sex being the last thing i was thinking about. The guy however felt that he needed to stop me, in the middle of my shift, and ask me to go back to his place. I told him very reasonably and politely, no. Because I didn't want him to find a reason to complain and get me fired, I made sure it was as nice as possible. He attacked me, both verbally and physically. In a public space, full of people. I won't get into how no one even cared, but i will ask you this, what do you think would have happened if i were in a closed off space, alone with him? Say, an elevator for example?

Oh, but that didn't happen. The guy was nice.

Really? So was the guy in the restaurant at first. But, you know what, your right. I'm sorry I have trust issues. I'm sorry I can't judge if your going to be reasonable or not, if I tell you no.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:47 PM   #49
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And then we get back on topic... damnit, I wish it didn't take me an hour to type things. lol.
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:15 PM   #50
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And then we get back on topic... damnit, I wish it didn't take me an hour to type things. lol.
It just took me two hours to read fifteen pages of Edward Said's Orientalism, don't feel bad XD
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