Lebanon

[CptSternn]

I thought this was a brilliant article today from the Guardian that hits on a few things the US media seems to be missing...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...822178,00.html

Israel, the US and key Arab regimes are now determined to crush the widely popular Hizbullah

Charles Harb
Monday July 17, 2006
The Guardian


The story reported in much of the western media in the past few days has painted a straightforward picture: Hizbullah's militants suddenly decided to launch an attack against Israel, killed some of its soldiers, kidnapped two, and has bombed Israeli cities. Israel, acting on its right to self-defence, retaliated by bombing the "infrastructure of terror" in Lebanon. The crisis will end when Israel's terms are implemented: the kidnapped soldiers are returned, Hizbullah is disarmed, and the Lebanese army protects Israel's northern border. This narrative borders on the dangerously naive.
Since Israel's 1996 massacre of Lebanese refugees at Qana in Lebanon, and the end of the 22-year Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon in 2000, an agreement between the various parties - sponsored by France, the US, and the UN - has reflected the "balance of terror": Israel would refrain from bombing Lebanese civilian structures, and Hizbullah would not bomb civilian structures in northern Israel.

Although several military operations by the Israelis and by Hizbullah have occurred since 2000, neither side has violated this understanding. In 2004, Hizbullah secured the release of some prisoners held captive in Israeli jails in an exchange with Israel. And Hizbullah's military operation last week falls squarely within that framework.

Israel's immediate reaction broke the established rules of the game by bombing civilian structures across Lebanon, imposing a land, air and sea blockade, terrorising the population, and killing more than 100 civilians in a disproportionate display of power not seen since 1982. Hizbullah then retaliated by bombing northern Israel, in line with the "balance of terror" equations, and the escalation of the conflict has spiralled.

Israel's significant policy shift is linked to domestic politics, psychological factors and power plays. The wider geostrategic implications are more important then the operational details. For the first time in recent history, Saudi Arabian, Egyptian, Jordanian, Israeli and US interests now converge in an implicit alliance to quell Hizbullah. Reactions by these states in the past few days have been strongly indicative of such a stance, from the Saudi statement implicitly condemning Hizbullah, to the US president's explicit refusal to "rein in" Israel.

US rhetoric last year about spreading "democracy and freedom" in the Middle East was ended when the administration realised that the outcome might lead to governments more in tune with national interests than American ones. The complacent reaction by US (and, to some extent, European) officials to the widespread election fraud and repression in Egypt as well as the open war on the democratically elected Palestinian government reflect this change. The question is increasingly whether entire populations are being punished for making the "wrong" democratic choices.

The Islamic-led resistance movements are now the only credible forces resisting the US occupation forces in Iraq, the Israeli occupation forces in Palestine, and the dictatorial regimes in the Middle East. They have come of age, and are ready to fill the void left by Arab nationalists of the 1950s and 1960s. Attempts to divide the movement along sectarian and geographic lines have been given significant airtime in the media, but do not seem to fully reflect the reality on the ground. The Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas and Hizbullah are far from being the fanatics some in the west would like to believe they are. They have displayed an increasingly complex and pragmatic discourse, moderated over time and appealing to wider sections of Arab public opinion.

Hizbullah is at a crossroads. It faces a massive Israeli onslaught, hostile international media and Arab regimes, and a potentially hostile Lebanese government. On the other hand, it has broad support among the Arab population across the region. As one Lebanese analyst argued, Hizbullah's leader, Hassan Nasrallah, will either come out of this a hero the like of which the Arab world hasn't seen since Nasser or he will have to step down.

What is happening in Lebanon is a tragedy for a people who have been made to suffer a great deal in the past three decades. A tiny country with a war-weary population and great pride is being made to pay once more for the incompetence of Arab rulers, the arrogance of a superpower and the self-righteousness of the Israeli state.

· Professor Charles Harb teaches social psychology at the American University of Beirut

Once again something we had discussed but now has died off. Anyway, anyone else feel the US/Israeli regimes have not only once again 'pre-emtively' attacked a sovern nation, they have once again got the idea of 'regime change' in theirm heads and will work towards that goal, killing as many innocent civilians as possible in the process?

[Don't Look Behind You]

Interesting article...it told me some details I didn't know about.

[Don't Look Behind You]

I am quite sure that there is a great possibility of a second Iraq story. But at the moment I am still uncapable of believing that someone could do what Israel did... isololate a whole country form the surrounding world, bomb civillists... I start wondering what they all smoke over there.

[CptSternn]

Whats ironic is bush keeps pressing for 'democracy' and 'free elections'. Lebanon had those. Hizbulla won 1/3rd of the seats, in an open election - as did Hamas in Palestein.

Now bush wants the 'terrorist regimes' out of power. Those regimes were elected by a majority of the people living there, something bush himself can't even claim.

So basically what the US is saying is elect whoever you want, as long as we support them. If not, we or our allies will bomb you out of existance unless you elect a government thats willing to be our lapdog.

Hizbullah has free health clinics, schools, and welfare offices throughout Lebanon, Iran, and other surrounding Arab nations. They are viewed as heros by the working class in those countries - providing things the government does not for those who cannot afford it.

Also note that many members of the Lebaneese government and members of Hizbullah are also Christian - in fact a large portion (around 30%) of Lebanon is Christian - something else most don't know.

The US media is once again taking the pro-bush admin view of these people as Islamic militants - when in reality, many are actually of the Chrisitan faith that Israel is bombing. Yet another ploy by the media to hide the truth for the bush administration.

[Don't Look Behind You]

Someone once said this and I remembered it : "Democracy is a luxury. Only those can afford it that have no other problems." I think it would be usefull for bush and his like to understand that in some countries democracy simply can't be established in the form the people in West know it. But on the other hand, you are quite right about Bush not really thinking about democracy anymore (if he ever was) but more about getting control over whatever he can set his hands on and getting "lapdogs".
It is difficult to understand how politics can be such a mess. I mean these are adult people...And such people, that hardly think logicaly, dispose over such weapons. Somehow I can't understand howcome someother country or the good olld human rights stuff doesn't just say this is bullshit, stop. If they deal so striktly with people like Miloshevitch, why can't they consentrate on Israel and Bush...its the same stroy almost as far as I know.

[Anguelon]

Hi guys, notice ur thread and replies and just wanted to give u the story from the horse's mouth. Hizballah are using civilians and UN soldiers as shields. Christians in Lebanon do not support such acts. Muslim shiites and muslim sunnis hate each other here, i live in Lebanon and witness this crap everyday. Hassan Nasrallah the big head of Hizballah is gonna run this country to the dogs. I'm writing this thread as i hear israeli warplanes over my house. Israel is committing crimes against humanity they say but it's Hizballah who's committing the worst crime ever, getting ppl killed for a freakin' non existant propaganda. Everytime something happens here, the only thing muslims do is protest and step on the American or Israeli flag. Hizballah can screw himself and palestine. When the palestinians came into this country. There was the massacre of Damour (christian area) and those bastards ***** females as small as an infant to the eldest woman alive there. Hizballah is a muslim militia for Lebanon and is well armed. They should let Hamas (palestinian) militia take care of their own crap. Lebanon has always been a battle field for everyone.

[CptSternn]

Excellent. Send us some pictures.

[CptSternn]

And, at it again, the bush admin trys to force its views on Europe, but once again is DENIED...

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BRU004839.htm

EU-No intent yet to add Hizbollah to terror list

BRUSSELS, Aug 1 (Reuters) - The European Union does not intend to place Hizbollah on its list of terrorist organisations for the time being, EU President Finland said on Tuesday.

"Given the senstitive situtaion, I don't think this is something we will be acting on now," Finnish Foreign Minister Erkki Tuomioja, told a news conference following an emergency meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels.

Tuomioja's comments were in response to a letter signed by 213 members of the United States Congress sent to EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana asking that the EU add Hizbollah to its terrorist list.

[CptSternn]

A Shaken Landscape

http://hotzone.**********/b/hotzone/...on07/blogs8692

[i]Editor's Note: To better understand what's next for the Mideast in the aftermath of the recent fighting between Israel and Hezbollah, Hot Zone Senior Producer Robert Padavick spoke with Yahoo! News consultant Milt Bearden. In a career spanning three decades, Bearden headed the CIA's Soviet and Eastern Europe Division and served as station chief in places like Pakistan and Sudan. He also ran the CIA's covert war in Afghanistan from 1986-1989.

With a cease-fire taking hold after over a month of fighting between Israel and Hezbollah, parties loyal to both sides are claiming victory. For former senior CIA official Milt Bearden, the winners and losers are clear.


"Where it counts, Hezbollah is clearly the winner," Bearden says. "For Israel ... not winning is losing. And for an irregular force like Hezbollah, not losing is winning."

Now retired, Bearden serves on the board of directors of Conflicts Forum, a U.K.-based nongovernmental organization that works to foster dialogue between Islamist groups and the West. That role has included talks with Hezbollah officials about the group's transition to a more political focus.


Bearden stresses that with fighting over it is in neither Hezbollah's nor Israel's interest to restart it — but for very different reasons. Those differences could partially guide the relative strategies for Israel and Hezbollah as the dust settles in the Middle East.


Hezbollah, Bearden says, now is in prime position for further political gain in Lebanon. The group already has a strong presence in the Lebanese parliament through an alliance with another Shiite group, the Amal Party.


"[Hezbollah] executed their side of the war to the extent that they are national heroes right now," Bearden says. "I think you're going to see that Hezbollah will be a big winner politically."


Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah is already taking steps to seize the momentum, announcing that Hezbollah will immediately begin repairing homes in southern Lebanon and even pay a year's rent to owners of damaged homes. The move underscores the extent to which Hezbollah is ingrained religiously and culturally in Lebanon, especially in the Shiite-dominated south, where the group runs an array of social services, including hospitals and schools.


Bearden says it's also possible that Hezbollah, even after sustaining a fierce Israeli barrage, actually could emerge with an expanded military presence in Lebanon — albeit in a different form.


"It seems to me that what we'd better be on the lookout for is the absorption by the Lebanese army of the military wing of Hezbollah," he says.


After a couple false starts the Lebanese cabinet approved a plan Wednesday to deploy 15,000 Lebanese troops in the south to bolster a United Nations force. Those troops began deploying Thursday. But neither Lebanon nor the U.N. seem to be concretely addressing the issue of disarming Hezbollah, even though a previous U.N. resolution calls for it. Bearden says it's a fallacy to consider that a possibility.


"The very concept of destroying Hezbollah or dismantling it is based on a faulty belief that it is somehow external to the fiber of Lebanon. It is not," he says. "There's nobody tough enough to disarm Hezbollah, or willing to do it if they are tough enough."


The scenario of a politically empowered Hezbollah, with militia remnants integrated in the Lebanese army, would present a dangerous new reality for Israel, which Bearden says is not in a position to restart hostilities against a foe that proved able to withstand its superior military might.

Hezbollah's stand against the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF), long regarded as a military superpower in the region, amounts to what Bearden calls the "demystification of the IDF." The implications for Israel are serious, in that Hezbollah's success could embolden other groups in the region, particularly the Palestinians, to overcome internal differences and unite against Israel.


"Israeli rule has just taken a huge hit," Bearden says. "I would imagine right now we're going to see serious discussions among Palestinians who say, 'Why not us?'."


Israel, it seems, has few options at the moment. However, there are reports in the Israeli press that Defense Minister Amir Peretz this week hinted at one of them: renewed dialogue with Lebanon, the Palestinians, and even Syria.

Bearden, a staunch advocate for dialogue, even sees the possibility for Israeli dialogue with Iran — although the country is a prime backer of Hezbollah and its leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel.

Still, those on the more "realist side" in Israeli politics, Bearden says, "are going to start saying, 'We need to talk with Iran; we need to talk with Syria.' But also, I can guarantee you, sooner or later they're going to want to talk with Hezbollah and Hamas." Hamas has already proven its political prowess, winning the Palestinian Authority general election in January.

The extent to which the landscape in the Middle East has been shaken is just beginning to emerge. But Israel's fight against Hezbollah, the intent of which was greater security, may have left the country even more on the defensive.[/b]

[Budweiser69]

dude you need a blog or *********** or something cause all you do is post crap that apparently no one wants to talk about

[CptSternn]

I have a blog (a couple). Hundreds of hits a week, dozens of subscribers.

I just post things people should talk about here. Just because people don't doesn't mean they shouldn't be posted. Hell, half of the threads on the site would not be here.

Besides, people can't say they didn't hear about something if they see it here.

..and look - even you are posting. So I have one reply. Thats more than some posts get.

[Budweiser69]

heh. so what you're saying here is that you're an attention whore. you don't care if its good attention or bad attention, you just want attention. did mommy and daddy not buy you your own richard pryor as a kid?

[CptSternn]

I'm not as much an attention whore as I am someone who is into politics.

Having been so for my whole life, and as an elected politician, I tend to keep up with world news.

And having lost both parents in a war funded and supported by the same groups now in Iraq and throughout the middle-east, I tend to follow the storeys.

[Delkaetre]

Why does the Babygoth view itself as in any position to criticise the Eldergoth?
And besides- even if people don't comment, it doesn't mean they don't read. I read plenty of news sites to keep up, but I don't always comment. Just a point. Since Budweiser seems incapable of drawing such a conclusion. It's quite handy having a political series on here- means I'm not having to trawl through the depths of Hell/the internet to get news.
Point for Stern- A Hizbollah spokesman announced last week that Hizbollah was willing to pay for rent for a full year for those Lebanese whose homes had been demolished by Israeli bombing. That's more than any other organisations are doing at the moment. Ref CNN, where I first heard the announcement.

[Budweiser69]

why does anyone with an aug 2006 join date view itself in any position to criticise members who have been here for more than a month? matter of fucking fact a year. no wait... two years. it doesn't matter you idiot how many posts someone has or how long they've been here. obviously it didn't matter when you came here writing checks for two cents... which bounced by the way.

btw dude this isn't cnn.com. if you want to read real news just for the sake of reading news go to a news site not a discussion board. see what sternn is trying to do here is provoke a discussion on the subject hence his posts being on a discussion board. thats the whole point. this section isn't here exclusively for you to be a lazy fucker and hope the paperboy delivers you a fresh story every day.

[CptSternn]

Almost every article in the politics forum is either started by meself, or, by someone trying to take a personal jab at me.

Before I started posting here, this forum was unused. So I started using it.

But thats off topic.

Del -

Your right on the money with that one mate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/16/wo...syahoo&emc=rss

That article from NYT sums up what we are seeing on the news here in Europe. Hezzbullah has been doing more for the people of Lebanon than the government. They were doing this WELL BEFORE the war.

Prior to the war, as I mentioned previously, they offer free clinics across the country, welfare offices across the country, job training, hell - they have their own free construction company that builds public works for the people of the country - all free and paid for by their own organisation.

They raise money across the world - ironically enough they have offices in the UK and take donations to do all of this. The only country that lists them as a 'terrorist' group is america. They constantly show negative videos and talk about the negative side of things, but have refused to look at the good. However the people there know this and love them, as also mentioned before.

Now, they are using their construction company (construction jihad) to re-build homes, businesses, and public offices before the government even has taken a total toll of the crisis. If FEMA could have had HALF the effecientcy that Hezzbullah has had, New Orelans would be back and running a year later.

The best article I have found so far is here:

http://www.boston.com/news/world/mid...up_the_shovel/

BEIRUT -- Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah's grand promises to rebuild Lebanon began to materialize at Shahed High School yesterday, in the form of neat packs of $12,000 in US dollars handed without ceremony to people displaced from their homes.

``I like Hezbollah more and more," said Riyadh Nasser, 53, as he waited in a south Beirut suburb for the money from the Shi'ite Islamist movement. The money is meant to pay for a year's rent and new furniture, until his original home can be rebuilt.

...

Lebanon's government is still talking about its own reconstruction plan, but Hezbollah has already flexed its organizational muscle to deploy heavy machinery, hundreds of engineers, and thousands of workers across the country, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, and in the process leaving the government looking flat-footed.

...

Nasrallah promised when a cease-fire halted the monthlong war on Monday that the ``Party of God," which led Lebanon into the conflict with a cross-border raid into Israel, would also lead the reconstruction effort.

...

``The Lebanese state takes three months to bring help. The United Nations takes three years. Hezbollah is there the next day," said Timur Goksel, who worked as a liaison officer in Lebanon between Hezbollah and the United Nations in Lebanon for more than a decade and knows the group intimately.

While bombs were still falling, Hezbollah bulldozers were already clearing debris from roads and paths around craters. Then, within hours of the cease-fire, engineers from Hezbollah's public works department began taking inventory of the destroyed homes, offices, roads and infrastructure of Beirut and southern Lebanon.

By the end of last week, they had already moved into the next phase, tearing down half-destroyed buildings and carting rubble to the edge of towns and neighborhoods.

``As we won the war with the Israelis, we will win this battle also," architect Khodor Baalbaky, 24, said on Thursday afternoon as he picked his way past one of hundreds of destroyed apartment blocs in southern Beirut.

Baalbaky noted every damaged apartment or shop on a sheaf of plans in a pink binder. Around him construction crews shoveled rubble out of the way to begin an accelerated effort that Baalbaky thinks will rebuild most private homes within a few months.

Hezbollah defines itself as a militant resistance movement; the United States and Israel consider it a terrorist organization that is bent on destroying Israel. But Hezbollah has distinguished itself from similar groups in the region by the efficiency of its public services for its Shi'ite constituents.

The group's reconstruction effort serves another aim as well -- to discredit the secular government, whose leaders have criticized Nasrallah for dragging the whole country into a war only Hezbollah wanted.

``We have to take care of the people who stood by our side in this crisis as quickly as possible," said Abou Ahmed, 45, the Hezbollah official in charge of reconstruction in the heavily bombed southern suburbs of Beirut, where hundreds of thousands of Shi'ite Hezbollah supporters live. Like many senior Hezbollah cadres, he would only be identified by his nickname.

He handled a crush of volunteers, contractors, and displaced people submitting claims yesterday at a makeshift Hezbollah help center in borrowed space in a computer training institute. Hezbollah officials processed papers, while Abou Ahmed harangued engineers and contractors over the phone.

Hezbollah has started distributing grants -- usually $12,000 -- and plans by the end of another week to have given awards to every family of the thousands in Beirut's southern suburbs who the group says need temporary housing. The organization also plans by the end of next week to finish a house-by-house assessment of every damaged and destroyed dwelling in the country.

Abou Ahmed's desk was covered with a detailed map marking every building in southern Beirut. Destroyed buildings were marked in red, partially damaged buildings in green.

A cellphone pressed to each ear, he yelled at one volunteer to push for contractors to submit proposals immediately; on the other phone, he told a man named Mohammed that he could make his own repairs and get reimbursement from Hezbollah, or he could wait two days for a Hezbollah crew to come to his home.

``Our concern is that life gets back to normal," he said.

Lebanon's government, meanwhile, has scurried to present its own reconstruction plan, but its response has been markedly slower than Hezbollah's.

``We are thinking, we are laying the ground for a housing project which would help people rebuild the damaged homes," said Nayla Mouawad, Lebanon's minister of social affairs. ``We are here."

Hezbollah has kicked off its reconstruction program with a heavy dose of propaganda. In areas close to the international media, they've placed showy red English signs atop piles of rubble reading ``Trademark: Made in USA." In Beirut and in southern towns cities like Tyre, Hezbollah activists have claimed credit for the work of construction crews actually dispatched by the government's civil defense service.

Sheik Nabil Kawouk, the Hezbollah official in charge of southern Lebanon, thanked Iran and Syria as he stood atop a destroyed building in a suburb of Tyre.

``This triumph is the triumph of all Lebanon," he said. ``We will rebuild our country even better than it was before."

In southern Beirut, signs taped to chunks of concrete and demolished houses directed people to Hezbollah offices where they could submit financial claims, with detailed instructions about the necessary documentation. A loudspeaker blared a martial Hezbollah song with a zippy tune: ``America, America, you're the great Satan," the chorus said.

It takes Hezbollah only three days to process the individual grant requests.

In a country where the per capita income is $6,200, Hezbollah's $12,000 award is an impressive brick of cash.

In another classroom at Shahed High School, a brother and sister beamed as a Hezbollah member handed them $12,000 in new American bills.

``I'm shocked they were able to get this together so fast," said the sister, Rima Oweidat, 26. ``I feel that Hezbollah is the government. They protect us."

---

One must realise that the 'hearts and minds' is not just something ye have to win when you go to war. To have people listen to you and follow you, they must believe in you all the time. Rebuilding their homes, putting food on their tables, caring for their sick and dying - thats what does it. Not sending bombs one day through a proxy goverment, then the next day promising aid to rebuild what you destroyed - which is what america is doing now.

As I said before, america has one of the worst track records in the world of helping its own people. It will be quite amusing to see Hezzbullah rebuild Lebanon bigger, better, and FASTER than the american government can rebuild New Orleans.

And we will see which group of people are happier with the results - I mean, already the people of Lebanon are dancing in the streets, literally, over the help they are getting from Hezzbullah with their homes, businesses, families, etc. - how many displaced Katrina victims are dancing in the streets while they rebuild their homes? Oh yeah, their homes are still sitting there while the us government trys to find contractors, take in bids, setup a time table, etc - a year in and they havent even begun moving the rubble yet.

And people wonder why they like Hezzbullah and not the states. I think many people in New Orleans right now are wishing they lived in Lebanon rather than america.

[Philip Harris]

Hitler was elected Chancellor! Don't get me wrong-the US is screwed up-as is the rest of the world-we all permit these things to happen-we make it our reality-I offer the following article as something to think over!

The first point I must make is that any government or group that specifically targets civilians are, in my opinion, terrorists. That being said, the issue of so called Collateral Damage is one that is appearing more frequently in news reports from around the world. We are constantly bombarded with reports of civilian casualties in places like Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza and other hot spots of terrorist activities. In some instances, civilians are the specific targets, while in others instances, civilian deaths occur because they happen to be too close to the action.

To me, there is an issue regarding whether or not all such casualties are as abhorrent as they appear to be regarded by the media. All killing is essentially wrong and I do not dispute that point. However, are there any circumstances in which civilian deaths are truly not as despicable as they appear to be at first glance? If the citizens of a country allow its government to embark upon a militaristic campaign, are they not to be held accountable for the actions of their government? If the citizens of an area knowingly allow terrorists to operate from their village, do they not shoulder some responsibility for the actions of those groups? Is not inaction sometimes the same as actively participating in the events they permit?

In Lebanon, local populations know that members of Hezbollah are firing rockets at civilian targets at Israel. In Iraq, villagers know that terrorists live among them and will kill not only American, but their fellow countrymen as well. In the former Yugoslavia, it was well known by the populace that ethnic cleansing was in progress. In Nazi Germany, the civilians knew that Jews were being taken to death camps. In the former Soviet Union, death camps were not a state secret.

It is front page news if civilians are killed by Israeli bombers as they stand idly by watching rockets being launched into civilian Jewish towns. It is front page news if civilians are killed by American jet fighters as they destroy Taliban hideouts. Why is it not front page news that many of the places that suffer such casualties are also havens for terrorists? If children are killed, sadly so, in a place that is harboring those who give no second thought to slaughtering the children of others, why is this ignored by the media?

In a democratic society, the people are, technically, the government. If the actions of a democratic government are deemed deplorable, then the actions of its citizens must be deemed likewise. One may argue that in nations that are controlled by dictators or military regimes, the people cannot he held accountable because they have no choice. Did not these same people stand tall in the Ukraine? Did not these same people topple the old Soviet regime? Was such an attempt successful in China? No, but change has occurred in that nation. Did not Americans in the 1700’s say enough and, against a superior force, defeat those who stood for oppression?

I am not saying that it is appropriate to purposely kill civilians, if it can be avoided. What I am saying is that people need to understand that they, too, must share in the responsibility when those around them are committing acts of terrorism and they simply turn a blind eye. Is it sad? Of course it is. But it is equally sad that these same people sit by while those among them are freely able to vent their hatred and bigotry on other civilian populations. When are people going to take responsibility for their actions? When are people going to stop blaming others for their self generated problems? Regardless of the headlines, civilians are not always as guilt free as they would have you believe. When motivated, people can move mountains, topple dictators and end tyranny. There is no “hold harmless” clause if people allow repressive and hate oriented governments or groups to try to destroy the lives of others.

Philip Harris

[MasterServant]

well, sorry for reviving this thread, just stumbled it on google.
I am an Israely, living in the north, I took part in this war as Infantry trooper in front line infantry brigade.
as for invading the not so sovereign land of south Lebanon -
I advice you to read some material about the history of the conflict on wikipedia or some other means. Im just amazed at such display of ignorance.
if you dont know all the facts keep your opinions to yourself.
we were dragged to this conflict by the hizbolla. the simplest example was the heavy artilery and the heavy bunkers we found there, hell, I havent seen such things at our side of the border.
before the attack on lebanese infrastructure hizbollah launched massive attack on the rural area of Upper Galile. we refrained from retaliating - as a fact you could see the amount of time we evaded using ground forces and heavy artillary
I think that inorder to understand the real fact you need to read some facts about the islamic religion and their way of thinking.
here is an article WRITTEN by an islamic believer

http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/ind...rticle&sid=279

I hope it wil enlighten you because the way I see it you are looking for some pointless bashing

[CptSternn]

I work with members of Hezzbullah in the UK at their offices there. I am quite aware of their religion and their way of thinking. I'm also awate the UN has passed over 74 resolutions condeming israel and its military for various violations of human rights, war crimes, and other illegal activities.

[Binkie]

You're aware of their religion? Which one? You stated on Goth.net not too long ago that Hezbollah was a secular orgnaization that had Christian members.

Reference to that remark:
http://www.goth.net/cgi-bin/ikonboar...15#entry209321

You work with Hezbollah in the UK, huh? Boy wouldn't the US State Department love to hear that this were actually true, considering you're a US citizen and Hezbollah is a terrorist organization here. Obviously it isn't true though, because I thought you were dedicating your work now towards Palestinians, since your work with Lebonese groups is "in the past" as stated in this post:

Reference to that remark:
http://www.goth.net/cgi-bin/ikonboar...15#entry209321

But obviously you weren't refering to Hezbollah there because you were living in the States "in the mid-90s."



MasterServant,
just as an FYI, CptSternn is a pathelogical liar that fabricates first hand experiences. He told members here he served in the US army durring Desert Storm, which was impossible because of his age (he would have had to serve when he was 16-17 in order for that to be true). He lied about where he went to highschool to make folks here think he lived the "hard knock life" in order to further an arguement. He lied about "helping" US soldiers go AWOL and apply for asylum in Ireland (to date, no US soldier has applied for asylum in Ireland). He's lied about having traveled to a dozen different countries (unless he's a closet millionare and muslim with lots of visa card air miles), including Iraq, and met with Christian members of Hezbollah in Lebanon, after making a stop in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Yemen, and -insert random country here-.

Contrary to what he says, he has no idea what the situation is on the ground in Lebanon or in Israel. In reality, he just armchair quarterbacks other nations' problems from a comfortable coffee shop in Ireland but contributes nothing else aside from bitching on an internet website. What he knows is what he reads in the newspaper. And obviously he, being a US citizen, isn't "working with Hezbollah," otherwise he wouldn't be a US citizen or able to travel to this country.

It's pathetic how transparent this asshole's lies are. I'm sorry you wasted your time in registering to even engage the moron, but am thankful that someone from Israel who was really on the ground durring all of this is here to put the record straight.

[Binkie]

Unfortunately the Goth.net message boards are iffy as of late. But if you are able to visit the boards to reference his remarks, note his status: "Political Exile." Means he is banned from posting in the Politics section there.

Einstein here achieved that by equating all US Soldiers to rapist baby killers. That set of remarks comes from the same guy who, on this website, claims that he has many friends that are US soldiers. Figure that one out.

[TSW|Abaddon]

BINKIE!!!!!!!!!! I was going to mention how high-speed here seems to conveniently have "first hand experience" all the time and how he has lied in the past but you definitely hit the nail on the head. Sternn has also said that he is an "elected official" but I highly doubt that as well.

[Binkie]

The part he's leaving out is that he was elected "Employee of the Month" at McDonalds.

[CptSternn]

Binkie -

Back and starting with the personal attacks. Goes to show you never have anything worth while to say. Ever. I laugh at your return - where are you mates? Oh yeah, they were all barred from posting here because of their views similar to yours.

Lets remeber everyone of your 'supporters' have been perma-banned from ALL Gothic.Net forums because of their rantings, it amazes me you are still here.

That being said, I find it hard to belive you are here to gloat, considering your right wing congress was booted, and Pelosi is now running the show. Tis a matter of time before the investigations start into ol gw's practices, rumsfeld, and all the other goings on you have stood here and trumpted for.

And don't worry, I will continue to sit here and post as those articles appear.


Here is another good one on Lebanon from today...

http://news.**********/s/afp/lebanonisraelflights

Israeli aircraft violate Lebanese airspace

TYRE, Lebanon (AFP) - Three Israeli warplanes have violated Lebanese airspace, flying repeatedly over the south of the country despite harsh international criticism of such incursions.

The fighter-bombers overflew the Tyre and Bint Jbeil areas where troops of the
United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) are deployed, intruding at high altitude repeatedly from around 0900 GMT, an AFP correspondent reported.

The Jewish state has maintained persistent overflights of Lebanon despite the August 14 ceasefire which ended the month-long hostilities between it and Lebanon's Shiite Hezbollah movement.

When asked about Friday's overflights, an Israeli military spokesman said only: "We don't elaborate on aerial activity".

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

Hmm... A link no one can visit, so no one can check if it's legitimate or not. This from a "man" called a liar and a troll. Coincidence?