Post-Anti-Americanism

[CptSternn]

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/09/p...ericanism.html

Europe can’t even be bothered to hate America any more.

You can still buy an American newspaper at the kiosk in Rome’s Piazza Colonna, but you have to ask the lady behind the counter. She turns from the window, paws through a stack on the floor, and produces an International Herald Tribune, holding it at arm’s length like a day-old fish. It’s the same availability and tone in Venice, the Greek islands, and Istanbul. The implicit question in the transaction is always the same: why would you want to read that thing about that place at this time?

And when you read about America in European newspapers, what you are likely to find is a tone bordering on pity. The U.S. is depicted as a fraying empire of obesity, ignorance, debt, gridlock, stagnation, and mindless war. Sure, the iPad is cool, but it is evidence of what America was, not what it will be again. The stories are not angry, accusatory, or even ideological. It’s worse: they are condescendingly elegiac.

European disdain for the United States is centuries old, of course. But over the course of decades of traveling in the U.K. and on the continent, I have never gotten the sense that I got on a recently completed three-week trip to Italy, Greece, Turkey, and the Black Sea. America is no longer admired, imitated, or feared. We remain—for now—a safe haven for dollars (of which there are too many in the world). But we increasingly are seen less as a model or as an empire than as a cautionary tale of national neglect and decline.

Some Europeans can’t quite hide their schadenfruede. The British—whose publications and personalities are increasingly (and annoyingly) influential in the colony they lost 227 years ago—are global leaders in condescension (think Simon Cowell). But for America they add a special twist of bitter lemon to their analyses. It’s the triumph of the doddering older brother who no longer has to be grateful to his junior. Memories fade, and the Brits no longer feel they have to be kind out of homage to our having saved them from Hitler.

A couple of examples from the genre. Writing in the Guardian, Timothy Garton Ash sees a Third World shabbiness when he visits the United States. “Every time I come back to the United States,” the Oxford don writes, “the airports, the roads, the public spaces look more tattered, battered, old-fashioned. Modernity is no longer self-evidently here.”

Edward Luce, a brilliant and diligent reporter for the Financial Times, surveyed the American landscape and came up with a mournful portrait that echoes, in equal measure, Diane Arbus, Walker Evans, and Robert Altman. Citing incontrovertibly bleak statistics about the struggles of middle-class Americans, and the growing disparity between the really rich and everyone else, he concludes that the U.S. is losing its essential character: it is no longer the land of opportunity and upward mobility; no longer the place where the future will surely be better, and more prosperous, than the past. Luce rues that a middle-class home is crowded—only 700 square feet—and “cluttered with chintzy memorabilia” and heartbreakingly defiant messages on refrigerator magnets. He ends the long piece with the scene of a much-beloved autistic son in a struggling family. The lad loves to sing, and launches into a “flawless rendition” of “The Impossible Dream” from Man of La Mancha. And that, in the author’s view, is evidently America today: an impossible dream.

And why, you might ask, does much of the rest of the world see us this way? I have a few suggestions:

The post-post-9/11 world. After an initial burst of sympathy, the world has lost patience and stomach for the “war” we launched against Al Qaeda and its allies. It’s cost the U.S. $2 trillion to $3 trillion or more, but Europe doesn’t agree with the premise or, even if it does, doesn’t want to pay for the cost. It would rather look away from our struggle, and, increasingly, would rather blame us than Al Qaeda.

The euro. In spite of all the talk about the euro’s demise, and the problems of Greece and Spain and Italy, the currency is surviving, as is the economic union it represents. The euro is back up.

Asia and Arabs. Turkey is turning east, both for investment money from the Gulf and for construction projects (the Turks are master builders) in Asia. As the U.S., burdened with mounting debt and structural political and economic sclerosis, is facing the possibility of a double-dip recession, most of the BRICs (and I would add Turkey) are moving ahead.

Obama fatigue. I talked to numerous businesspeople and others in Europe who had lost the awe they had—briefly—that we had elected an African-American, and a cool global guy at that. They are aware that he has lost his popularity in the United States, and, even though he managed to enact some massive legislation—on health care, stimulus, and finance services—they increasingly view him as ineffectual. “He’s hollow,” said one leading businessman in Istanbul.

World Cup. Three of the four FIFA finalists were from Europe. Landon Donovan, are you listening?

[Sinjob]

So, Sternn, do you still hate Americans?
(Or look down, distrust, laugh at etc... which ever word is most accurate)

[Apathy's_Child]

"The post-post-9/11 world. After an initial burst of sympathy, the world has lost patience and stomach for the “war” we launched against Al Qaeda and its allies. It’s cost the U.S. $2 trillion to $3 trillion or more, but Europe doesn’t agree with the premise or, even if it does, doesn’t want to pay for the cost. It would rather look away from our struggle, and, increasingly, would rather blame us than Al Qaeda."

Hilariously, Sternn's attempts to maintain an anti-American stance just led to the apparently inadvertant posting of pro-US propoganda.

[HumanePain]

There is some truth to this theme, thanks to eight years of Bush.
Bastard trashed our intellectual capital and international goodwill. Bastard.

[Sinjob]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

"The post-post-9/11 world. After an initial burst of sympathy, the world has lost patience and stomach for the “war” we launched against Al Qaeda and its allies. It’s cost the U.S. $2 trillion to $3 trillion or more, but Europe doesn’t agree with the premise or, even if it does, doesn’t want to pay for the cost. It would rather look away from our struggle, and, increasingly, would rather blame us than Al Qaeda."

Hilariously, Sternn's attempts to maintain an anti-American stance just led to the apparently inadvertant posting of pro-US propoganda.

Not to mention it's been obvious he's lied before to cement his points. Shit I haven't even been on here that long and can already tell.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Sinjob

Not to mention it's been obvious he's lied before to cement his points. Shit I haven't even been on here that long and can already tell.

My favourite thread was the one about the transsexual teacher who got fired, in which he defended the rights of faith schools to do whatever the fuck they want, and claimed that discussing such issues with children is akin to discussing death. What a winner.

[Sinjob]

...And the one about how he was in the military and "rescued a man from sea"!
No one knows America better than a drunken Irishmen.

[Apathy's_Child]

Let's face it, we'd miss Sternn if he left. He's like that crazy old guy who haunts bars up & down the country, telling anyone who'll listen how he used to be best friends with Freddie Mercury and led the British army in the Battle of Normandy because he was so super-awesome they begged him to front them after meeting him at a shindig. No one wants to listen to him, but when he finally kicks it, everyone wants to know where he went.

[Hearts_Purple]

Originally Posted by Sinjob

...And the one about how he was in the military and "rescued a man from sea"!
No one knows America better than a drunken Irishmen.

HA! Yeah, and my opinion on how shitty the rest of the world is compared to America is totally valid even though I've never been outside the US.

[Sinjob]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Let's face it, we'd miss Sternn if he left. He's like that crazy old guy who haunts bars up & down the country, telling anyone who'll listen how he used to be best friends with Freddie Mercury and led the British army in the Battle of Normandy because he was so super-awesome they begged him to front them after meeting him at a shindig. No one wants to listen to him, but when he finally kicks it, everyone wants to know where he went.

Fuck yeah I'd miss him. The fact that his judgments are ignorant and general and maintaining the snobby European stereotype is good enough to keep reading. He's hilarious.

By the way he's DJ'ed at the Batcave.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Sinjob

Fuck yeah I'd miss him. The fact that his judgments are ignorant and general and maintaining the snobby European stereotype is good enough to keep reading. He's hilarious.

By the way he's DJ'ed at the Batcave.

Eh, I'm not remotely goth. I can be thoroughly underwhelmed with a clear conscience.

[Sinjob]

Haha I know you don't strike as one. Goths don't take beer, they're all about the absinthe.

I remember I talked to Sternn on MSN and asked him. So funny now thinking abotu it.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

There is some truth to this theme, thanks to eight years of Bush.
Bastard trashed our intellectual capital and international goodwill. Bastard.

Obama isn't doing much better...he's continuing Bush era policies and expanding on them,but nobody else bothers to admitt to that dirty little secret that isn't a secret,unless they are FED up with the way things have been done on capital hill for the last decade.

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Let's face it, we'd miss Sternn if he left. He's like that crazy old guy who haunts bars up & down the country, telling anyone who'll listen how he used to be best friends with Freddie Mercury and led the British army in the Battle of Normandy because he was so super-awesome they begged him to front them after meeting him at a shindig. No one wants to listen to him, but when he finally kicks it, everyone wants to know where he went.

Not me. He's more like the senile uncle that makes an embarrassing scene at every family reunion. If he someday stops posting here, I may eventually come around to a vague understanding that somehow the experience of coming here has become just a little more pleasant ... without ever really recognizing the cause.

[Apathy's_Child]

To clarify, when I said "everyone wants to know where he went", I meant to convey that everyone will be flummoxed by the possibility that he might have something better to do with his time (which he doesn't; he's just dead), rather than suggesting that he would be missed.

EDIT: By anyone other than Sinjob - but when someone names hilarity as the reason they tolerate your presence, it pretty much amounts to the same thing.

[Sinjob]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

To clarify, when I said "everyone wants to know where he went", I meant to convey that everyone will be flummoxed by the possibility that he might have something better to do with his time (which he doesn't; he's just dead).

No free time?!

..What part of travelin' Guinness Drinker/Political Analyst/RIGHT ON CRITIC/UBER GOTH DJ/SUPER HERO

DO YE NOT UNDARSTHAND????

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Sinjob

No free time?!

..What part of travelin' Guinness Drinker/Political Analyst/RIGHT ON CRITIC/UBER GOTH DJ/SUPER HERO

DO YE NOT UNDARSTHAND????

I tink ye meant free TOIME, sure.

[PortraitOfSanity]

I agree with Sternn's views on Irish independence, but that's where we part ways...

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

I agree with Sternn's views on Irish independence, but that's where we part ways...

I share a lot of his views on the Israel/Palestine conflict, but whatever the discussion, he makes his side an embarrassing place to be.

[Sinjob]

Yeah.

I think he plans these some of these extended absences of his and then comes back with posts disregarding insults (yeah I'll give him his maturity for sure) only responding with snider comments that evoke more reactions.

Quite brilliant, but just a theory.

[PortraitOfSanity]

There have been a couple discussions where I almost sided with Sternn, but he made his side sound so abysmally psychotic that I backed off and reconsidered.

[Sinjob]

He's more of an entity than a person.

Blimey.

EDIT: (Wait that's Australian, ain't it?)

[Hearts_Purple]

Originally Posted by Sinjob

Haha I know you don't strike as one. Goths don't take beer, they're all about the absinthe.

I remember I talked to Sternn on MSN and asked him. So funny now thinking abotu it.

Oh noes! I hate Absinthe. Goth points dwindling...dwindling...dwindling...

[PortraitOfSanity]

I drink Jack Daniels at clubs, just to bug all the Ub3r Gawfz.

[Hearts_Purple]

I always drink Crown & coke. Nobody really pays attention to what you're drinking. If they do they seriously need to get a life.