Something that's been plaguing me for a long long long long time....

KontanKarite · 04-02-2007, 07:01 PM

*WARNING* Some of this is rather explicit. The subject matter here is not meant for younger G.netters. Not because I don't think you can hash it out, but because of the possibility of a parent seeing this. *WARNING*

I'm going to open up here. The events that have transpired are not entirely important, but this is where I'm at in life and I'm struggling with it anyway.

When I was a young lad growing up, I was gay. I was really really flaming. I came out twice as a child. Both times I was heavily chastised and rejected by my father who couldn't have a gay son. By that time I had already had sexual encounters with 3 other boys. This lasted up until about 12 years old.

Coming of age when I was a teen, I had my first intimate encounter with a girl. I was repulsed. I was scared. But I forced myself to like it. I was 14 at the time. Part of me was saying "This is really gross" while another part of me was saying "This will make your family proud."

For the longest time, during my teen years, I had dated exclusively girls where in which have a 100% chance of failing for me. But during those years, I do remember wanting to be closer to a few select guys, but I couldn't understand what my attraction was. I think a couple of them, I wanted to kiss, to hold, to know on a level that I hadn't known in years. At this time, I had wanted to do "shows" on attractive guys for the pleasure of my GFs. I was more than comfortable with the idea of making out with them, naked bodies pressed together, his hard shaft entering my mouth. All so that she could see something that I thought she would find beautiful.

Fast forward to Italy. I met this girl who was bi and she started noticing some very flamboyant things in me that I haven't addressed for a very long time. She noticed that my eyes would light up like she had never seen when I would watch a video of Gackt or HIM, seeing how beautiful Ville Valo CAN look. (This isn't about goth, mind you) Just know that for some reason I was drawn to his visage. She actually came out and told me that she thought I was homosexual.

Then I went out in Napoli and ran into a very strange man on the street. He was all in my intimate zone and asking me what I wanted while my gaydar was on red alert. I turned him down. For that, he tried to kill me.

Now, it seems I date women because it's "safe". I've been so separated from the gay community, that I honestly don't know how to behave or react. You might think it would be easy to just be straight and let it be at that, but I can't. As much as it terrifies me, I can't let that part of me go. Romantically, I can look at a guy and feel that there would be a sense of understanding and unity. A deep friendship bond that wasn't based on sex, but sex and intimacy became a part of it through sheer virtue that we simply wanted to care for each other and make the other feel wanted and loved.

Girls, well, for some reason, the romance comes second. Sexual encounters with girls is just that. It seems to be a safe way to have a good time, though I am capable of loving a girl, the lust, sadly, comes first.

I just want it to be alright. I just want to overcome my social anxieties. They are crippling to me. I just don't want men to try to murder me when I turn them down and I don't want to simplify myself to looking only in the direction of females.

I guess I just want some sort of understanding. I guess I just want to feel okay with myself. I just want to understand why I function the way I do. And to this day, I still wrestle with my own mystery.

cradle · 04-02-2007, 07:13 PM

I'm one of the youngest ones here.
oh well.

For a while...I actually thought I was gay.
But then I just realised I was bisexual.

HumanePain · 04-02-2007, 07:17 PM

Men you turn down try to kill you? Physically kill you?

Is it like "maybe if I dominate him he will surrender to me" type of violence?
O_o

KontanKarite · 04-02-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Men you turn down try to kill you? Physically kill you?

Is it like "maybe if I dominate him he will surrender to me" type of violence?
O_o

No. It was more like: "You don't want me? Fine!" *hard punch in the mouth* then follow up with being chased with a switchblade.

MollyMac · 04-02-2007, 07:49 PM

First off: Damn.

Secondly, I don't know that I can understand where you are coming from, but that I *think* I can grasp some of it, to a degree.

I want to tell you that it- the problem- isn't *you* per se, but a reaction to your environment and now the fallout from all of that. Sad to think that circumstances in your life have made lack a sense of safety and normalcy for what you are and feel you are. And I am hoping that you are away from those more negative outside influences.

I can say that not all men are like that sociopath in Italy. But one freak accident can scar you for life. You need what my gals and I call "Mental Mederma"- small applications of your desired behaviors applied to your life to lighten the scars over time

Think toes in the water to test the temperature until it feels right, to ease your way into the relationships or physical situations you want. Think of short term things, easy goals you can set and work with and wade the water. Is it just getting out more? Opening up - and on-line counts, I don't care what anyone else says. A first step is a step. And words are not easier typed than spoken.

I just.... damn.

I swear, not all men are psycho. You just gotta start baby-stepping out there and start finding ways to make who you are- who you are.

KontanKarite · 04-02-2007, 07:57 PM

Essentially, that's what I'm trying to do, Mollymac.

I've already turned down a modeling gig, only because I didn't feel I could trust that well ripped gentleman who was a model/scout/promoter himself.

Godslayer Jillian · 04-02-2007, 08:00 PM

O_o
I don't even know what to say. He just punched you in the face out of the blue?

HumanePain · 04-02-2007, 08:03 PM

You should come to California Kontan. People are little more civil. Insane, but civil.

KontanKarite · 04-02-2007, 08:06 PM

I suppose you guys are right. My feelings aren't really justified. I guess that guy as truly just insane in the membrane. It makes me miss someone though. It makes me miss Rex. He was a guy who was essentially nothing like you would imagine most homosexuals. He was easy going, let me know that he was attracted, but he never pushed the issues of lust. And the way he played with my fishnets... heh... it was too cute.

MollyMac · 04-02-2007, 08:17 PM

No, I would say that your feelings were initially justified, but it is time to start letting a lot of the trauma fall away. We are peppered by our past, but if all we are is a sum of our past(s), then what the fuck is there to look forward to, ya know?

You KNOW you deserve a life, you KNOW you deserve to live openly and freely. You know how you want to live your life, even if it is not what others want(ed) for you... rather, what you felt and who you are did not fit what they wanted for themselves, it had nothing to do with what they wanted for you.

The thing is that you're *here* making those first critical steps (a Herculean task in its own right, by the way), and the path is somewhere between tedious and scary as hell, I can imagine.

And at the risk of sounding trite, have you been able to talk to a counselor or anything like that?

james"bloody tears" · 04-02-2007, 08:19 PM

not being gay myself i cant say very much but i am going to say this be yourself and dont give a d**n what everyone else thinks. the guys who've tried to kill you for turning them down, my advice there is try another approach to turning someone down. good luck in the future and hope you find mr right.

KontanKarite · 04-02-2007, 08:19 PM

No. I haven't. I don't have medical insurance and part of me feels like they wont really address the issue. Part of me thinks that they'll try to fix the problem by attempting to convince me that I'm straight.

HumanePain · 04-02-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Part of me thinks that they'll try to fix the problem by attempting to convince me that I'm straight.

Are they STILL spewing that hogwash? I thought that died out with Freud.

KontanKarite · 04-02-2007, 08:33 PM

The question is, HP, is what is easier? Curing the disease or treating the symptoms?

To work with something as complex as my problem in an effort to preserve some sense of self is a bit harder than people trying to convince me that I'm straight or gay I would imagine.

raggedyanne · 04-02-2007, 08:34 PM

Naw, a friend of mine came out and his parents sent him to church for "counselling" and instead we just snuck out for the weekend and introduced him to another gay friend (they're dating, it's so cute). Kotan's main problem is mostly location. KY vs. SF bay area. He shouldn't date girls just to impress his folks.

KontanKarite · 04-02-2007, 08:35 PM

Anne, you're right. But, at the same time, it's become a "safe" and easy "habit".

raggedyanne · 04-02-2007, 08:36 PM

What is safe is not always easy, and what is easy is not always safe

KontanKarite · 04-02-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raggedyanne

What is safe is not always easy, and what is easy is not always safe

True. That's a small part of it that I struggle with.

raggedyanne · 04-02-2007, 09:13 PM

Keep posting and we'll do our best to not mess you up too much. ; P

Drake Dun · 04-02-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Are they STILL spewing that hogwash? I thought that died out with Freud.

It didn't die out as an official line until much, much later than Freud.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosex...classification

I mentioned this recently in the "Counseling" thread, but I do not trust psychologists much, and my favorite example for why is the whole homosexuality thing. As long as the balance of opinion in society was that it's evil to be gay, our illustrious and highly objective psychologists bitched up and kept telling everyone that homosexuality is a disease. As soon as the balance shifted toward accepting homosexuality and condeming intolernace, they bitched up again and decided that homosexuality "does not necessarily constitute a psychiatric disorder."

My other favorite example is the first diagnostic criterion for anti-social personality disorder in the DSM-IV-TR:

"Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest"

You read that right. Breaking the law satisfies a criterion for diagnosis of a mental disease. Whatever the motives of individual psychologists are, the primary function of psychology as an institution is always to defend the social status quo.

Er... right. To get off my soapbox and address Kontan's original post, I think you just have to get out there, guy. That Italy story sucks ass, but I think you will agree if you think about it calmly that it was a one in a thousand thing and you pretty much just got screwed on the roll of the dice. I like HumanePain's advice... get to some place that is gay friendly. I would recommend San Fransisco (hey, cliches got that way for a reason).

Anyway, point being, nobody is going to say anything that fixes it and you are not going to think anything that fixes it (alone). You have to start exploring again.

Not that I have any business giving advice about relationships. But I never let that stop me.

Drake

Drake Dun · 04-02-2007, 09:37 PM

Hoooooooooooly crap. I just noticed that you are in Kentucky.

Allow me to augment my previous comments to make them a little more emphatic:

RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!

Drake

Valerius · 04-02-2007, 09:52 PM

Is it your goal in life to impress your folks by dating the conventional way? I think not! Well, unless you've made it a personal goal, but gee, you know, you're your own person. Your parents are there to love you and raise you to the best of their capabilities, but once you're of age it is your own responsibility to take care of yourself in any way that you see fit.

Living safe and easy is not living at all, I will tell you. You need a little risk just to spice things up, even if it means upsetting someone or shedding some blood (okay, I may have embellished on that one). My point is, you live however which way you want to live, not because it makes someone else happy, but because it makes you happy.

I've always followed the sayings of the Fox in the Little Prince (see my signature), and what I've gotten out of following it made me happier than I was prior to taking its meaning.

If you take that first step, and your parents disagree, they will always love you simply because they are your parents.

mrs.wes straker · 04-03-2007, 03:07 AM

Kontan, I feel bad for you. I really do. It seems you don't ever stop thinking about the subject at hand. I hope that your can find happinesss one day. You seem like a nice guy.

erotomaniac87 · 04-08-2007, 06:31 PM

I know exactly how you feel, Kontan. I'm somewhat in the same situation. Due to my past experiences, I now feel as I can't normally develop a healthy relationship with anyone.

Shyantra · 04-08-2007, 06:35 PM

Here I am complaining about my 'small' problems, and you guys are getting the hell kicked out of you. I'm sorry. But nonetheless I did stick up for you in a heated debate about that with one of my co-workers; it got REALLY heated. Almost to the point...*notices that that is better left unsaid due to the HIPPA policy*