Shooting at Virginia Tech

[Cyntrox]

I'm quite sure the american government will do everything they can to make him look bad.

[raggedyanne]

that's what we do best

[edible_eye]

Originally Posted by Cyntrox

Although I doubt he shot people at random, I'm not trying to defend the killer. My question was not related to this episode. So yeah, kinda of topic.

So, you're assuming he targeted specific people, that those he shot were sought out individually? Your question was dropped in the middle of a discussion regarding whether or not blame was to be assigned.

Originally Posted by Cyntrox

It was more of an ethical question, really. Oh, you are the last person I'd expect to go on a personal attack in your first post. Disappointing.

Personal attack? It was a question.

As for what you would expect from me - expect nothing. You won't be disappointed that way.

[edible_eye]

Originally Posted by raggedyanne

Cyntrox is correct that his judgment of other people made him want to kill, but listen to what he was mad about. The evidence is stacking up, America's moral lapse is infuriating to many people. Maybe they're right in saying we need to shape up, but not by killing people.

So, you're saying it's other peoples' fault that he killed 31 people? According to you, he holds no responsibility for his actions?

Who is saying we need to shape up? Who is this 'they' you're referencing?

[edible_eye]

Originally Posted by Cyntrox

I'm quite sure the american government will do everything they can to make him look bad.

He's not only made himself look bad, but has portrayed himself as a sack of waste all by his lonesome.

This statement smacks of unfortunate brainwashing on the scale of that horrendous, protestor chant - "Hell no, we won't go." It means a whole lot of nothing, yet anyone who says it feels better about having done so.

[edible_eye]

Originally Posted by raggedyanne

that's what we do best

Is it?

You might want to pull your sleeve up, your chip is showing.

[Cyntrox]

Originally Posted by edible_eye

So, you're assuming he targeted specific people, that those he shot were sought out individually? Your question was dropped in the middle of a discussion regarding whether or not blame was to be assigned.

Yeah, it was perhaps a little misplaced. But I was not there. I do not know who he killed. But I find it likely that he would attack people who had done something to him.

Originally Posted by edible_eye

Personal attack? It was a question.

As for what you would expect from me - expect nothing. You won't be disappointed that way.

You can't just put a question mark behind anything to make it lose its impact. I've seen your earlier posts, I have a lot of respect for you and so I expected you to be more civil. Pardon me if you are not.

Originally Posted by edible_eye

So, you're saying it's other peoples' fault that he killed 31 people? According to you, he holds no responsibility for his actions?

He holds no responsibility because he is dead. He was of course influenced from the outside. If he had grown up somewhere else, this would not have happened. And casting blame does nothing but show that you think you are by far superior - and that goes in all cases.

[Cyntrox]

Originally Posted by edible_eye

He's not only made himself look bad, but has portrayed himself as a sack of waste all by his lonesome.

This statement smacks of unfortunate brainwashing on the scale of that horrendous, protestor chant - "Hell no, we won't go." It means a whole lot of nothing, yet anyone who says it feels better about having done so.

Were you there? Did you know all the people who were killed? Do you know anything about it except what has been fed to you?

[Drake Dun]

Why assign blame? Stop looking at it from a social engineering, philosophical, or moral perspective and just look at it as a question of the personal psychology of the person doing the assigning. The value of blame-assignment to the individual is obvious... it's a process of blocking, purging, and reasserting. It's a coping mechanism, and not an ineffective one.

Drake

[Underwater Ophelia]

I understand that most school shooter type people are people who are made fun of, but that's no reason to go and shoot anyone.
Think of the millions of people who are made fun of and don't shoot people. I'm not saying that the people who made fun of him didn't help it along, but it is in NO way their faults at all.

[Edward]

Bloopie. I agree with your mention of cause and effect, but further after that I see little wisdom in your words, which means you weren't saying anything worth much. Yes, a "Stupid Fucker" as you so roughly put it, would kill students, which has nothing to do with this, The man who committed this travesty was far from a stupid man, he was intelligent, he was just misguided, by his own thoughts. Blame, though it never does, should always land on that of the man who committed the crime, no one but himself is to blame for what happened there, not the people he killed, not any women he attempted to stalk, not any psychologists that turned their backs on him, nor his parents, all blame is on him. You do not need a stupid man to kill students, you need a misguided soul or mind, a good guy could easily kill girls, it happens every day. And compassionate humanists could even have personal justification for execution, though be it just only in their minds.

And you may think your language gets your point accross better, but the man who can move mountains without a gruffness of mind, body, or tongue, is that which is admired, not one who uses a swear in every line.

[raggedyanne]

Thank you Edward, for putting Bloopers in his place. Some people's brains are just wired wrong. Is there an electrician for that? Nuro-Electricians: We Re-Train Your Brain!

[BlackWidow]

Wow so you guys have a lot in common, sweet.

[Cyntrox]

Originally Posted by Bloopie

Cyntrox is a moron everyone. I just had a thirty minute debate trying to explain that we are more intelligent than other animals, and he still won't listen. I also explained to him that anarchy doesn't work for very long, and it's the most inefficient type of (non)government for humans known to man. Even communism is better.

He seems to also believe that 'norms' will satisfy the moral standards of a group of people as large as a nation. He seems to be under the delusion that tribes do not function as a microcosm of a government.

If that is what you think I meant, you are quite obviously the moron.

[Cyntrox]

Originally Posted by Bloopie

That's precisely what I said. You are arguing that it's my PERCEPTION that I am smarter than an animal.

No, I was saying that we are not too different from animals. Yes, we are intellectually superior, but that's about it.

Originally Posted by Bloopie

Then I said, "Well, what animal uses the internet?"

Then you said, "The internet was designed for humans."

I can't picture anyone other than you to run around and crack nuts with a rock.

Originally Posted by Bloopie

"Well, why haven't animals invented anything? Invention is the true sign of intelligence."

No, invention is the desire for luxury.

Originally Posted by Bloopie

Then you said, "What makes them less intelligent just because they use tools?"

No, I didn't.


I'm done arguing with you.

[c130]

There's this species of crow that's really awsome. It can use twigs and bend pieces of wire to make tools for grabbing food it can't reach.

(Not that crows have very much to do with the V-Tech shooting.)

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by c130

There's this species of crow that's really awsome. It can use twigs and bend pieces of wire to make tools for grabbing food it can't reach.

(Not that crows have very much to do with the V-Tech shooting.)

I heard that, but when I heard it, it was a tale of love lost and exquisite drapes.

[Saphyra Runa]

QUOTE]No, invention is the desire for luxury.[/quote]

Not entirely true. Would you say inventions in the medical field are for luxury?

[CptSternn]

Cyntrox and Drake make a valid point.

What purpose does it serve to assign blame and to attack this person and point fingers after the fact?

To allow people to merely blame this one man for this tragedy is to discount the reality behind his motives and mindset. This means that the root causation of these issues will not be address and this type of thing is sure to happen again.

People will blame him, and now attempt to shift focus from the root issues to the fact he was 'crazy', which is what happens every time this sort of thing occurs. It happened in Columbine, it happened in the other school shootings, and will undoubtably happen again next time.

As long as those in power, and the masses which believe them, alow themselves to beleive that it was merely bullying and mental issues that caused this tragedy, then history will no doubt repeat itself.

Ask yourself this - do you not think there are bullies in other countries? Social outcasts? Persons with mental issues? Why is it this only happens in the states? Do you not think every other persons in the world has watched these events unfold each time they happen? Why is it then, when in environments that have the exact same precursors (i.e. bullies, outcasts, and a history of mental issues) do individuals elsewhere in other countries have not replicated such behaviour?

As it was said, why blame anyone? People should be more focused on finding the source of such attacks and working to stop them from the root up, not pointing fingers and trying to place blame on a dead man. That in the long run will not help, and will assure that this will happen again.

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

Originally Posted by Bloopie

I believe it. It's still not invention though...it's all instinctual. Tool use and invention are two different things.

When a bird makes an incandescent light-bulb, I'll suck anyone's dick.

Can I be first in line?

My dick is in need of sucking.

[chelseagirl]

CptSternn: They may not happen as frequently as over here, but school shootings DO happen in other countries.

Crime Location: Carmen de Patagones, Argentina
Crime Occurred in: Sep, 2004
Victim(s): Three students killed and 6 wounded.
Culprit(s): 15-year-old Argentininan student in a town 620 miles south of Buenos Aires.

Crime Location: Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina
Crime Occurred in: Apr, 2002
Victim(s): One teacher killed and one wounded.
Culprit(s): Dragoslav Petkovic, 17, who also killed himself.

Crime Location: Erfurt, Germany
Crime Occurred in: Apr, 2002
Victim(s): 13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school.
Culprit(s): Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself.

Crime Location: Freising, Germany
Crime Occurred in: Feb, 2002
Victim(s): A technical School Headmaster was killed. Two others killed in a factory. Another teacher wounded at the technical school.
Culprit(s): A man killed two at the factory from which he was fired and then travelled to the technical shool from where he was expelled where he killed the headmaster

Crime Location: Branneburg, Germany
Crime Occurred in: Mar, 2000
Victim(s): One teacher killed
Culprit(s): A 15 year old student who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since.

Crime Location: Veghel, Netherlands
Crime Occurred in: Dec, 1999
Victim(s): One teacher and three students wounded
Culprit(s): 17 year old student

Crime Location: Alberta, Canada
Crime Occurred in: Apr, 1999
Victim(s): One student killed, one wounded at W. R. Myers High School in first fatal high school shooting in Canada in 20 years.
Culprit(s): The suspect, a 14-year-old boy, had dropped out of school after he was severely ostracized by his classmates

Crime Location: Sanaa, Yemen
Crime Occurred in: Mar, 1997
Victim(s): Six Students and two others killed at 2 different schools.
Culprit(s): Mohammad al-Naziri

Crime Location: Dunblane, Scotland
Crime Occurred in: Mar, 1996
Victim(s): 16 children and one teacher killed at Dunblane Primary School. 10 others were wounded in the attack
Culprit(s): Thomas Hamilton who killed himself

[ArtificialOne]

OK, I know I have the main troll <cptstern> on ignore.. but I still seem to be able to read his posts in my email.. therefore.. I will respond to his one post.

Cho was insane. No one picked on him and it wasn't societies fault for what he did. He showed the begining signs of schizophrenia:

psychiatry: a severe psychiatric disorder with symptoms of emotional instability, detachment from reality, often with delusions and hallucinations, and withdrawal into the self.

His parents said he displayed symptoms almost all his life. The failings are in not diagnosing him and locking him up or putting him on drugs. Insane people use insane excuses. His excuse was rich kids... well... He had the money to go to v tech and also lived in centerville, va... which is pretty pricey... He might as well said the tv or ants made him do it. It would not have been any less crazy. He just happened to pick a cause that many college and left wing people support.

[raggedyanne]

I personally am rejoicing in the fact that my to fave trolls are picking on each other.

Cho's parents were probebly more concerned with making a living than watching their son for symptoms of mental issues. One thing I thought I'd point out is that in many asian cultures the sons are considered special and their behavior is overlooked. It happened with my friend's older brother in california, the parents refused to believe their son had issues til he killed himself.

[PersephoneX]

Primary school kids here are stabbing each other...A couple of months ago, there was a Grade 1 kid that got r*ped in the bathrooms by some boys in Grade 4...

[Drake Dun]

I think the point that was originally trying to be made was that there's no point in placing blame on Cho, because he is dead. He does not exist anymore. He existed until that day, and then he stopped existing. You can't punish him, or make an example of him, or reform him, or do anything in particular regarding him. You can stamp your feet and grumble about what an awful guy he was, but your blame is useless in the problem-solving sense.

Drake