15 dead as Israel boards Gaza-bound ships

[Ben Lahnger]

Food for thought:

SAVING ISRAEL FROM ITSELF

Israel under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu seems locked in a self-defeating dynamic in which it feels misunderstood and gives up on international opinion. It lashes out with force in ways that undermine its own interests. It is on a path that could eventually be catastrophic. - Nicholas Kristof, The New Your Times, June 3, 2010

[CptSternn]

American, 19, Among Gaza Flotilla Dead

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Media/ameri...0814848&page=2

A U.S. citizen who lived in Turkey is among the nine people killed when Israeli commandos stormed a Turkish aid ship heading for the Gaza Strip, officials said today. The victim was identified as Furkan Dogan, 19, a Turkish-American. A forensic report said he was shot at close range, with four bullets in his head and one in his chest

[Ben Lahnger]

I saw that a day before you posted it. I bet you thought that would somehow tug on the American heart-strings and make us all curse the Israelis.

We still don't know everything that happened on that boat, and you have yet to acknowledge that simple fact. You also keep ignoring the proven fact that the primary mission of that flotilla was not to be peace-loving and humanitarian, but to BREAK the blockade. That's also the mission of the next boat that is headed to Gaza now.

And I don't hold one person's life to have more value that another solely on the basis of what nation or geographic location he or she is from.

[Saya]

It was a humanitarian effort as well, I'll try to find the pictures of the cargo again but it composed of toys, wheelchairs, medicine and building materials to fix Gaza's fucked infrastructure. It was also wanting to break the blockade but I don't see how thats a bad thing seeing how utterly fucked up the blockade is.

Not to say that it wasn't wrong of the passengers to attack the Israelis if thats what happened, but really the blockade shouldn't be there in the first place.

[Ben Lahnger]

That is a fair question for debate, and I've already asked it several times in this thread. Also, I've made it a point to state clearly that the cargo isn't in question ... just the motives of this mission. Because that cargo could have been moved through the Egypt border without the confrontation.

And just as I've said the blockade isn't even in Israel's best interests in the long term, the protesters approach to trying to end the blockade is not the best way to attack this problem.

[Saya]

The Egyptian border hasn't been an easy way in either, its only after the flotilla tried to break through that they are trying to keep the border open for a while.

All eyes were on the Mavi Marmara sea drama this week, but the Turkish-backed convoy is not the first. It's just the largest attempt to break the blockade of the Gaza Strip.

Indeed, another vessel, the Rachel Corrie, which is sponsored by a Malaysian foundation, had already set out for Gaza this week, with Malaysian and Irish activists (including Irish Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan) aboard, and carrying cement, CAT scanners, dental supplies, wheelchairs, crayons and sports equipment for kids.

Convoy campaigns are, of course, the direct result of the land and sea blockade imposed on Gaza by Israel and Egypt after the 2007 Hamas takeover of Gazan government. Israel maintains control of the airspace and territorial waters of the 360-square-kilometre strip.

Since then, people of all stripes (“retired schoolteachers, mayors of small towns”) and other activists have wasted no time in trying to breach the border. Canadians, such as the three in the Turkish convoy, participate too.

The journey to Gaza is arduous. Depending on the port of departure, a sea voyage is a many-day proposition – and dangerous. The U.S.-based aid group Free Gaza Movement mounted the first sea effort, in August, 2008: a convoy of two small wooden boats, named the SS Free Gaza and SS Liberty, which included 44 activists from 14 countries, including Lauren Booth, sister-in-law to former British prime minister Tony Blair, and an 81-year-old Catholic nun from the U.S., Sister Anne Montgomery. They were successful in breaking through the blockade. But, in December, 2008, the Cypriot-flagged yacht SS Dignity operated by Free Gaza was rammed by Israeli Defence Force boats in international waters and had to be towed to Lebanon for repairs. In February, 2009, another humanitarian vessel, the Togo-registered Tali, was seized.

Sharyn Lock, a spokeswoman in London for the Palestine-led International Solidarity Movement, which was involved in the early sea ventures, said the first convoy was inspired by the difficulties activists faced at land borders. “We didn't know how we were going to continue to work until someone said, ‘Let's try to get in by sea.' ”

The land route is as much an exercise in patience as in public relations, as with Viva Palestina, the February, 2009, mission led by former British MP, maverick George Galloway. Its convoy of more than 120 vehicles, including a fire truck and 12 ambulances, travelled 8,000 kilometres overland from Britain through Spain to Morocco and across the north of Africa. Mr. Galloway made it in, via Egypt, and delivered $5-million worth of aid.

The publisher of rabble.ca, Kim Elliot, says the Egyptian authorities are unhappy with the international traffic into Gaza. So Egyptian border control uses a variety of tactics to dissuade activists – who typically fly into Cairo, and travel six hours to the border town of Rafah – including long wait times in distinctly unpleasant circumstances. “They stopped cleaning the bathrooms,” she said.

Nevertheless, land convoys are still attempted. Aid group Code Pink, led by retired U.S. Army colonel Ann Wright, a former diplomat who resigned in protest against the Iraq invasion, has led a number of delegations into the territory since 2009. Its Gaza Freedom March, which convened at Rafah in March, 2009, involved 1,400 people from 42 nations. In August, 2009, two Canadian MPs, Richard Nadeau of the Bloc Québécois and Libby Davies of the NDP, accompanied Code Pink.

Ehab Lotayef, a computer systems manager at McGill University's department of electrical engineering, made it into the territory in March of 2009 after three weeks of trying. A Canadian born in Egypt, Mr. Lotayef said there were about 50 Canadians among the 1,400 internationals on the Gaza Freedom March.

“I have seen the drawings of kids and those drawings have helicopter gunships and bombs,” he said. “That is their daily life.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1592974/

[KontanKarite]

The blockade puts Israel in a catch 22 situation. To all of you bleeding heart liberals... IT IS THE GOAL OF HAMAS TO WIPE OUT ISRAEL! Open your fucking eyes. Every action that Israel takes either costs them lives or political cred. THAT IS HOW TERRORISM WORKS. How many terrorists acts is it going to take for you people to NOTICE that Israel's problem is not a formal one? This is NOT a formal war for them.

What's the score? Do you guys understand the elevation of force? The blockade is there for a reason. Those soldiers boarded that boat in order to inspect its cargo. When they got on it, the passengers were brandishing weapons of various amounts of lethality from bats to fucking axes and knives. What the FUCK do you people expect the Israeli soldiers to do? Stand there and get the shit stabbed out of them while they inspected the cargo? No, you don't have an answer. You're just going to jump the gun and say Israel is being an asshole because innocent little children are being starved to death. Well guess what? War fucking sucks. It's ugly, it's sick, and it doesn't CARE about the casualties. You CAN NOT BLAME ISRAEL for defending themselves from a political group who OPENLY says they intend on wiping them out. It's simple. Remove a TERRORISTIC group from power that INTENDS to destroy Israel or suffer the consequences of war. You and I should expect nothing less from any other nation trying to protect its people.

You know what's REALLY fucking sad about this? I'm willing to bet that the people of Gaza didn't put Hamas in power. I'm willing to bet that the vote to put them there was rigged. If it WASN'T rigged then guess WHAT people? They're a part of their own problem. It wasn't just their government that's picked a fight, they may have honestly and fairly voted these people into office. So the people picked the fight as well.

The only thing this blockade has done was protect Israel's interests in the short term and made them look like an asshole. But what other options do you guys think Israel has? Stand down? Go ahead and send a select few of their people to satiate the blood lust of Hamas and call it all fair and square? Please. Think about it folks, these people, both sides, are on some level 100s of years behind culturally.

Bill Mahre said it best. Western civilization is better. That's just another thing to think about.

Let me ask you guys a question... If Israel categorically backed off... if they said, "Fuck it. No more. We're just going to leave you alone if you leave us alone." Do you REALLY trust Hamas to be so benevolent and humane?

Actually, if I were in Israel's shoes, I'd be that bold. I would totally cut all ties with Hamas and what's going on there. I'd totally back off, let my guard totally down. You know, because Hamas would NEVER do anything to hurt Israel. Amirite? Then, once another terrorist attack happens again... What then? Full scale invasion? Total annihilation in Gaza? Guys. This isn't a uniformed struggle. This is at worst, a grassroots cultural war. Terrorism doesn't NEED state funding. Terrorism doesn't NEED lots of money in order to operate and to kill people. All terrorism needs is one person with the means of killing many people with the ideal of political strong arm motives. Terrorism is crime, it is politically motivated, and culturally motivated.

I'm not saying that Israel is a victim. I'm not saying they're innocent. But what I am saying is that you can't blame them for some of the actions they have done. Israel is certainly no push over and they're certainly not innocent victims. But neither are their enemies. Both sides are as equally deadly and brutal.

Trust me, if there WAS a right wing asshole on here saying that Israel is a total sweetheart innocent cake, I'd be just as argumentative with them.

Short version: Clearly, that boat was trolling Israel.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

What if Israel had sent that "Inspection" crew out at broad daylight?

Why didn't they announce in broad daylight that they would need to inspect the cargo to make sure everything was on the up and up before it was allowed through to unload at port?

Why the cloak and dagger treatment on a civilian vessel anchored in international waters?

There weren't any hostile actions (From what I've seen of the video footage) until the "Inspection" Crew tried to force their way on board via helicopter insertion.

[KontanKarite]

Deadman... you're an idiot. Clearly, you don't know what you're talking about.

Boarding that boat by chopper or by another boat... it doesn't matter.

Clearly, you're insinuating with weak suggestions that Israel has just committed a crime. Stop making this thread even more stupid than it already is.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Deadman... you're an idiot. Clearly, you don't know what you're talking about.

Boarding that boat by chopper or by another boat... it doesn't matter.

Clearly, you're insinuating with weak suggestions that Israel has just committed a crime. Stop making this thread even more stupid than it already is.

What I'm saying is exactly that.

The ship was anchored in International Waters when the I.D.F. were trying to pull a pirates of the Caribbean/Black Hawk down move,right?

And wouldn't it have been a better deal P.R. wise to try an easier approach to the situation during daylight hours,with clearly defined intent,maybe announcing that they were coming aboard to check things out before allowing them into port?

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

The ship was anchored in International Waters when the I.D.F. were trying to pull a pirates of the Caribbean/Black Hawk down move,right?

And wouldn't it have been a better deal P.R. wise to try an easier approach to the situation during daylight hours,with clearly defined intent,maybe announcing that they were coming aboard to check things out before allowing them into port?

As far as I'm aware, they did announce that they were coming aboard. That they were in international waters isn't actually important*. I was going to argue that that law shouldn't apply here because the blockade shouldn't be recognised as legal, but I'm starting to agree with Kontan. I don't see how the Israelis can stop suffering on both sides. If the reports of malnutrition are correct they should obviously let more food in. Does anyone know if the blockade is working? There are still plenty of smuggling lines, especially tunnels over the Egyptian border right? So are the rocket attacks actually being reduced?




* 67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

What I'm saying is exactly that.

The ship was anchored in International Waters when the I.D.F. were trying to pull a pirates of the Caribbean/Black Hawk down move,right?

And wouldn't it have been a better deal P.R. wise to try an easier approach to the situation during daylight hours,with clearly defined intent,maybe announcing that they were coming aboard to check things out before allowing them into port?

...Admit that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to military/naval procedure. Failure to do so in any way is by default an admittance to your love of sucking a sack of saggy scrots.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Raptor

As far as I'm aware, they did announce that they were coming aboard. That they were in international waters isn't actually important*. I was going to argue that that law shouldn't apply here because the blockade shouldn't be recognised as legal, but I'm starting to agree with Kontan. I don't see how the Israelis can stop suffering on both sides. If the reports of malnutrition are correct they should obviously let more food in. Does anyone know if the blockade is working? There are still plenty of smuggling lines, especially tunnels over the Egyptian border right? So are the rocket attacks actually being reduced?




* 67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;

Not saying I'm on the side of the flotilla here but that passage about merchant vessels does not apply to this ship, as it carried humanitarian aid. As stipulated in the same San Remo agreement that the merchant vessel extract comes from, all ships carrying humanitarian aid are to not be attacked no matter where or why.

[KontanKarite]

JCC, they didn't attack them just to attack them.

Nowhere in the agreement does it say that humanitarian vessels are exempt from inspections, unless I'm missing something. So far, from what we know, Israel did NOT attack them for the lulz. They boarded the vessel for inspection and was threatened by weapons, which elevates the use of force.

Clearly, based on what we know, this ship was totally asking for a beat down.

[JCC]

Yeah, you're right. I re-read and they're only exempt from attack if they submit to inspection, which the last ship obviously didn't. My bad.

[KontanKarite]

It's cool, dude. No worries.

[KontanKarite]

Oh, and I will give Deadman one night to admit he knows nothing to this point of naval/military/police procedure. Keep in mind, eventually he will admit it or his only other option is the confession that he indeed loves to gobble sacks of saggy scrotums like a good cock mongrel should.

[donmara]

Blah, fuck Israel.

[KontanKarite]

Awww, isn't that cute. Donmara thinks it's smart.

Hey everyone, look how adorable the little tyke is.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

What if Israel had sent that "Inspection" crew out at broad daylight?

Why didn't they announce in broad daylight that they would need to inspect the cargo to make sure everything was on the up and up before it was allowed through to unload at port?

Why the cloak and dagger treatment on a civilian vessel anchored in international waters?

There weren't any hostile actions (From what I've seen of the video footage) until the "Inspection" Crew tried to force their way on board via helicopter insertion.

I actually agree with deadman here. The flotilla stopped for over for hours while waiting for daylight to avoid a confirmation in the dark and risk injuries.

The IDF forces intentionally wanted to go in under cover of darkness and flew into international waters to make sure they could do this at night.

As we saw when they boarded the Rachel Corrie yesterday, they did so without helicopters, in broad daylight, and there was no issues.

Then there is the other legal argument which many of the humanitarian activists are putting forward. I will encoded and upload interviews done with the Irish on board the vessel which was raided - thy say the troops opened fire even as the troops were leaving the helicopters - the IDF claim it was not live fire but rubber bullets and stun grenades, which even if that is true begs the question, why go in firing off rubber bullets and using stun grenades before there is a problem?

The IDF went in like a SWAT team - attempting to use an early morning raid time with stun devices - which caused a panic - of course people are going to fight back once they think they their lives are in danger. It wouldn't be that big a stretch, as the IDF has a well documentation history of killing indiscriminately.

The Rachel Corrie was named after an American teenager executed by the IDF just a few years ago. In the past few years peace activists, cameramen, reporters, and staff of every major news network have been killed as well, not to mention the long list of civilians who were 'collateral damage'.

But thats the stance they take - always militaristic, and they have no cares when it comes to killing off a few innocent civilians, especially if they are ones who get in their way of collectively punishing millions of people.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by JCC

Not saying I'm on the side of the flotilla here but that passage about merchant vessels does not apply to this ship, as it carried humanitarian aid. As stipulated in the same San Remo agreement that the merchant vessel extract comes from, all ships carrying humanitarian aid are to not be attacked no matter where or why.

JCC is correct on this one as well.

Also, per Raptors post, the maritime laws defining when you can board a vessel that in in violation of a blockage are very clear and are not what the israelis claim they are.

According to their spin doctors who we continually see on the news they claim if a vessel is 'heading towards' a blockade it can be boarded. This is not true. That is what borders are for. You can say someone was 'going to violate' a blockade. Either they violate it or they don't. This isn't Minority Report - there is no pre-crime unit arresting people before they commit an act.

I mean, if that were the rule then countries could sink ships all the time when other ships even passed by their maritime borders, it would lead to chaos. It would be like arresting someone for walking near your property instead of on it and charging them with attempting to almost trespass.

More importantly, if this were the case, there is another big issue that America has been keeping quite on. North Korea. If you have already forgot, they sunk a South Korean ship in international waters a few miles from the maritime border. If you excuse the israelis, then you have to apply the law equally and excuse North Korea. If you don't then you come off looking very bias against one country and towards another.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

The blockade puts Israel in a catch 22 situation. To all of you bleeding heart liberals... IT IS THE GOAL OF HAMAS TO WIPE OUT ISRAEL! Open your fucking eyes. Every action that Israel takes either costs them lives or political cred. THAT IS HOW TERRORISM WORKS. How many terrorists acts is it going to take for you people to NOTICE that Israel's problem is not a formal one? This is NOT a formal war for them.

This has nothing to do with Hamas. This has to do with the 1.5 million people living in the worlds largest outdoor prison, who have no food, running water, or electricity and are forced to live in rubble piles. This is about collective punishment - the fact israel is in violation of a dozen Geneva Convention statues that cover this very sort of thing. As I mentioned above, 1.5 million people live there, over half are children, half are women. They have little to no say in this, and israel thinks it is ok to starve them and treat them like animals because they have an issue with one small political faction living there.

This is a sovereign nation - israel has no right to blockade a nation in efforts to force regime change. If Russia surrounded America and cut off all resources in efforts to force an election to bring in a more pro-Russian President, how do you think the average American would react? Even people who do not like the President would surely not support having an outside nation force upon them their political choice.

Hamas was elected through democratic elections. The funny thing is, that was because israel did this to the previous regime. That forced people who were voting to go even more extreme, which brought in Hamas. Once they were elected they put in a blockage around their nation. Is that how democracy is supposed to work?

Lets also not lose sight of something else here - Hamas is officially recognised as the legitimate governing body by pretty much all of the world, with the notable exceptions of the US, UK, and israel. I mean, the US always blasts Hamas, but here in Ireland leaders of Hamas visit regularly to speak at universities, to work with members of the Irish government, and other normal things that politicians do.

What's the score? Do you guys understand the elevation of force? The blockade is there for a reason. Those soldiers boarded that boat in order to inspect its cargo.

They had the opportunity to do so in Cyprus, when the UN monitors did so. They were offered the opportunity to do so again, prior to the boat crossing over into territorial waters. Both times the israelis refused the opportunity. They choose to come in with weapons at night and commander the ship instead of coming in during the day and inspecting the cargo.

When they got on it, the passengers were brandishing weapons of various amounts of lethality from bats to fucking axes and knives. What the FUCK do you people expect the Israeli soldiers to do? Stand there and get the shit stabbed out of them while they inspected the cargo? No, you don't have an answer.

No one was there to inspect anything, they were there to take the ship. They escalated the violence against peaceful protesters when no escalation was needed. They have a clear documented history of this. People on the boats feared for their lives - they grabbed whatever they could find in efforts to defend themselves against what they pervcive3d was a mass execution, and turns out they were not wrong.

[quoe] You're just going to jump the gun and say Israel is being an asshole because innocent little children are being starved to death. Well guess what? War fucking sucks. It's ugly, it's sick, and it doesn't CARE about the casualties. You CAN NOT BLAME ISRAEL for defending themselves from a political group who OPENLY says they intend on wiping them out. It's simple. Remove a TERRORISTIC group from power that INTENDS to destroy Israel or suffer the consequences of war. You and I should expect nothing less from any other nation trying to protect its people.
[/quote]

Really? I mean, really? This is collective punishment. By your justification above America should be able to starve out the people of Iraq until they get rid of all the hostile forces there. IT doesn't matter that a majority of the people are not politically active and that women and children have no vote or say in society, they will be starved and treated like animals as well because they are after a few people. Why not lock down entire neighborhoods in America when looking for a single suspect in a crime? Starve hundreds if not thousands of people all in hopes the people who live in a blockaded town will group together and remove the one person who the government wants removed. Thats not how civilised society works. You cannot punish hundreds of thousands of women and children because you have an issue with a few people. If you neighbor has an issue or dispute with someone, you should not have to suffer for their actions - thats basic human rights.

You know what's REALLY fucking sad about this? I'm willing to bet that the people of Gaza didn't put Hamas in power. I'm willing to bet that the vote to put them there was rigged. If it WASN'T rigged then guess WHAT people? They're a part of their own problem. It wasn't just their government that's picked a fight, they may have honestly and fairly voted these people into office. So the people picked the fight as well.

Actually the US, EU, and UN had observers there if you have forgotten already. The israelis forced out the previous regime and it was elected democratically with international observers. Again, by your reasoning, bush invaded Afghanistan. So therefore if Aghanis started bombing places in America to force out the bush regime (back when he was in power), then that would be acceptable? How many people in America do not agree with the government, then or now? Will punishing all Americans for who the majority voted for make sense to you?

The only thing this blockade has done was protect Israel's interests in the short term and made them look like an asshole. But what other options do you guys think Israel has? Stand down? Go ahead and send a select few of their people to satiate the blood lust of Hamas and call it all fair and square? Please. Think about it folks, these people, both sides, are on some level 100s of years behind culturally.

Blockading humanitarian goods is never an option. No on is saying that removing weapons from a war zone is bad, but punishing children and blocking medical supplies in efforts to collectively punish a nation of people, women, children, the elderly, etc is nothing short of barbaric.

Let me ask you guys a question... If Israel categorically backed off... if they said, "Fuck it. No more. We're just going to leave you alone if you leave us alone." Do you REALLY trust Hamas to be so benevolent and humane?

Since they refuse to even talk with them, we will not know until it happens. To assume that negotiations will not work before they have even been attempted seems a bit daft doesn't it? What if America during the Bay Of Pigs just said, why try talking to Russia, they of course will never listen, screw diplomacy.

If israel attempted to even try diplomatic channels and Hamas did still act in such a way they would no longer have the world support they have now. As I said, they are recognised around the world, with the exception of three countries.

I'm not saying that Israel is a victim. I'm not saying they're innocent. But what I am saying is that you can't blame them for some of the actions they have done. Israel is certainly no push over and they're certainly not innocent victims. But neither are their enemies. Both sides are as equally deadly and brutal.

So might makes right? Two wrongs make a right? Diplomacy is for the weak? If this were true then America would have won in Iraq and Afghanistan yeasr ago. They could just put a strangle hold on food and resources and starve the people until they submit. An means to an end as you are asserting there sure.

When you kill thousands of innocent women and children, when you deprive 1.5 million people of their basic human rights and force them to live in appalling conditions for any reason, then you can be blamed. Anyone who argues differently has a very black soul.

Short version: Clearly, that boat was trolling Israel.

Was the flotilla designed to provoke some response? Of course. It was a humanitarian mission, and blocking it would mean having to attack civilian humanitarian workers. Then again, what alternatives are there to getting international media attention to this issue? Most of ye never heard of the Free Gaza movement, Rachel Corrie, the Gaza blockade, or any of the rest of this before last week.

This is the ninth time in a row over the past few years the flotilla has attempted to pass into Gaza, each time the people involved have been stopped and arrested. Each time the crew consisted of various EU parliament members, UN members, various human rights organisation members. How many people hear knew that? I did, because every year the Irish government along with many other European and Scandinavian governments donate aid to the flotilla, and every year the IDF intercept and destroy the cargo.

This year, there are many cameras on the issue - this year, the aid might actually make it through. This year, the crimes being perpetrated are actually making international headlines and even the US has been forced to stand up against the blockade which has been there for almost a decade.

It's funny how people act differently when they know the world is watching, eh?

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Also, per Raptors post, the maritime laws defining when you can board a vessel that in in violation of a blockage are very clear and are not what the israelis claim they are.

According to their spin doctors who we continually see on the news they claim if a vessel is 'heading towards' a blockade it can be boarded.

"Heading towards" isn't a good description but you are talking about a news statement not a legal quote.

JCC was right, I quoted the wrong part of that document. However it applies the same principle to aid ships as merchant ships:

47. The following classes of enemy vessels are exempt from attack:

(c) (ii) vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations;

Conditions of exemption

48. Vessels listed in paragraph 47 are exempt from attack only if they:

(a) are innocently employed in their normal role;
(b) submit to identification and inspection when required; and
(c) do not intentionally hamper the movement of combatants and obey orders to stop or move out of the way when required.

They were asked to divert to Ashdod for inspection and refused.

Originally Posted by CptSternn

If you excuse the israelis, then you have to apply the law equally and excuse North Korea.

I don't see how that incident is the same as this one.

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Lets also not lose sight of something else here - Hamas is officially recognised as the legitimate governing body by pretty much all of the world, with the notable exceptions of the US, UK, and israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#I...ation_of_Hamas

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Most of ye never heard of ... the Gaza blockade ... before last week.

Riiiight.

[KontanKarite]

You know what...

Save for a small handful of people, you guys are fucking idiots.

Thank god you're a bunch of pussy liberals. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if you actually had the balls to take action against injustices. But thankfully, the best you can do is brow beat and finger wag. Oh, and ignore the statements of groups of people who SAY they want to kill and wipe out an entire group of other people, ignore their crimes, and cheer them on because it's OH SO LEFT WING to root for the underdogs and hate on the west.

Sometimes, I fucking hate having to call myself a liberal when it's so chocked full of institutionalized post-modern thinking crunchy granola fucks. Bunch of pussies.

[Ben Lahnger]

Thank you.