Christian Teacher Burns Kids

Delkaetre · 02-10-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Jennifer Dennis studied her 13-year-old son's skin and was uncertain which to be more astonished by: the shape made by the strange dots running the length of his forearm, or how they got there.

"When I looked at it, the shape was definitely a cross, like a Christian cross," said Dennis. "Zach said his teacher did it with an instrument that gave off something like a lightning bolt. It was red, like a sunburn or if you burn your arm on the oven."

The next morning, Dennis was standing in the reception of Mount Vernon middle school demanding to know what had been done to Zachary.

That was three years ago and the small, deeply religious Ohio town is bracing itself for the answer to Dennis's question after the lengthy de facto trial of a man who is either a decorated teacher martyred for his Christian faith, or a religious zealot who spent years undermining the very science he was paid to teach.

Along the way, the dispute has prompted Bible-waving students to march on their school, set teacher against teacher, and forced Jennifer Dennis and her family to leave town.

At the heart of the controversy is John Freshwater, who taught at Mount Vernon middle school for 21 years.

Freshwater said he had done the same science experiment to hundreds of students before Zachary Dennis, using a Tesla coil, which gives off an electric spark.

The teacher said it was painless and harmless – although a doctor would later testify that Dennis had second-degree burns – and that he had made an X, not a cross, on the boy's skin.

That might have been the end of the matter after the school ordered Freshwater to stop using the coil on children.

But Zachary Dennis's parents asked him what else was going on in science class. Out poured accounts of lessons on evolution mingled with creationist theories about "intelligent design", a euphemism for the hand of God, of questions about religious beliefs and of classroom walls pasted with the Ten Commandments.

Other children told of also having crosses burned on their arms.

The school sacked Freshwater in June 2008. He invoked his right to a hearing that is about to reach its conclusion after dragging on and off for more than a year and costing the school board close to $500,000 (£300,000).

The rest of the article is here, and there's a whole ton of backup evidence and documentation available from Pandasthumb.

TL;DR- Christian teacher refuses to correctly teach science syllabus, uses electrical device to mark students with temporary burns in the sign of the cross.

JethroAranas · 02-10-2010, 04:11 PM

Illuminati. Haha. That teacher is crazy!

Random Havoc · 02-10-2010, 04:14 PM

This crap is completely unacceptable, but unfortunately getting more common, not less common.

JethroAranas · 02-10-2010, 04:17 PM

I never actually thought that psychopaths or something like that really exist in America. I thought it's only on movies.

Renatus · 02-10-2010, 04:51 PM

I'm just a bit curious, how exactly would one intentionally burn a cross shaped mark into a person skin using a Tesla coil? The direction the sparks go arnt exactly controllable, you can control where they go by providing a conduit, but even then while they're arcing they're still pretty random. I'm going with the doctor on this one with saying that its an X.

What does the teacher being Christian have to do with this? I would understand the issue more if this was just a plain town, but this is like the article said, it's a deeply religious town.

Delkaetre · 02-10-2010, 05:15 PM

I haven't seen the device used to leave the marks, I've only seen the marks left and read the interviews with the children who had the marks left on their arms. I do have a question, though- if you can't control where the sparks go, but can control it enough to make an X shape, please tell me how that stops you from making a cross shape?

As for his religion being an issue- he's a science teacher, not a religious studies teacher. He is paid to teach science, and the teaching of Intelligent Design is not sanctioned as scientific principle, nor is teaching of any faith system in schools sanctioned under US law. What with the pasting the ten commandments on the walls of a science classroom, the insisting on teaching intelligent design instead of actual science, etc, he's hardly a secular or unbiased source of scientific information. He's not sound as a teacher. And he's certainly not sound if he's actively, knowingly and repeatedly burning the kids under his care.

Renatus · 02-10-2010, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

I haven't seen the device used to leave the marks, I've only seen the marks left and read the interviews with the children who had the marks left on their arms. I do have a question, though- if you can't control where the sparks go, but can control it enough to make an X shape, please tell me how that stops you from making a cross shape?

As for his religion being an issue- he's a science teacher, not a religious studies teacher. He is paid to teach science, and the teaching of Intelligent Design is not sanctioned as scientific principle, nor is teaching of any faith system in schools sanctioned under US law. What with the pasting the ten commandments on the walls of a science classroom, the insisting on teaching intelligent design instead of actual science, etc, he's hardly a secular or unbiased source of scientific information. He's not sound as a teacher. And he's certainly not sound if he's actively, knowingly and repeatedly burning the kids under his care.

This is a giant Tesla coil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY-AS13fl30

You dont have to control it very much at all to make an x, all you need are two non parallel angled sparks. I dont need to tell you the odds of two random lines not being parallel.

But like this article said this is a religious community, and they didnt mention any complaints to his teaching of such things. The only thing Christian related about this crime is the claim that those marks are crosses.

Random Havoc · 02-10-2010, 06:58 PM

So you have no problem with teachers randomly branding students with electrical shocks so long as the symbols are random and not religious?

As for the 'no one complained so what's the big deal' most parents don't even pay attention to what their children are taught, and I can guarantee school admins don't. So by your logic if a history teacher was teaching that Hitler was a hero of the german people that was falsely attacked by his neighbours and just defended himself and no one complained for several years there would be no problem with this? There is ALWAYS a problem when teachers are filling kids heads with their own notions as opposed to the approved curriculum, especially in a science class...

Renatus · 02-10-2010, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Havoc

So you have no problem with teachers randomly branding students with electrical shocks so long as the symbols are random and not religious?

As for the 'no one complained so what's the big deal' most parents don't even pay attention to what their children are taught, and I can guarantee school admins don't. So by your logic if a history teacher was teaching that Hitler was a hero of the german people that was falsely attacked by his neighbours and just defended himself and no one complained for several years there would be no problem with this? There is ALWAYS a problem when teachers are filling kids heads with their own notions as opposed to the approved curriculum, especially in a science class...

I never said there wasnt a crime taking place, what I said was the crime had nothing to do with Christianity. Please do not escalate this discussion into somthing it doesnt need to be.

Random Havoc · 02-10-2010, 07:04 PM

Are you seriously postulating that a non-Christian would have the 10 commandments on the wall of a science classroom, or teach intelligent design?

Renatus · 02-10-2010, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Havoc

Are you seriously postulating that a non-Christian would have the 10 commandments on the wall of a science classroom, or teach intelligent design?

Did I say the teacher wasnt Christian? No, I said the crime wasnt related to Christianity. Are you postulating that because a criminal is Christian the crime they commit is automaticly Christian? I hope not. Cookie?

Random Havoc · 02-10-2010, 07:12 PM

What I'm putting forth is that IT IS a crime when a science teacher uses his post as a pulpit to push his religious views. Just because it wasn't the original crime he was charged with, does NOT mean he gets a pass on it.

Renatus · 02-10-2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Havoc

What I'm putting forth is that IT IS a crime when a science teacher uses his post as a pulpit to push his religious views. Just because it wasn't the original crime he was charged with, does NOT mean he gets a pass on it.

The Justice system is too strained as it is to prosecute crimes that dont offend the people being affected by them. Otherwise you might as well ask the courts to prosecute each and every person who smokes pot each and every time they smoke pot. If the people of that school district want somthing done about it, let them do it themselves.

Random Havoc · 02-10-2010, 07:23 PM

Apparently it DID offend someone, otherwise it wouldn't have been in the papers. The moment a crime is found out about it is the court's responsibility to prosecute it. No one went looking to make sure he was doing his job, it was found out that he wasn't by a parent doing their part and taking some interest in their kid. After the initial incident he was investigated, and the other problems with what he was doing were brought up. The only way your argument holds up is if no one ever complains. Someone did.

Renatus · 02-10-2010, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Havoc

Apparently it DID offend someone, otherwise it wouldn't have been in the papers. The moment a crime is found out about it is the court's responsibility to prosecute it. No one went looking to make sure he was doing his job, it was found out that he wasn't by a parent doing their part and taking some interest in their kid. After the initial incident he was investigated, and the other problems with what he was doing were brought up. The only way your argument holds up is if no one ever complains. Someone did.

Where did it say sombody complained about it? The Newspaper might simply be emphasizing the Christian aspect of this so they can get more readers, just like what the press did with the fact that the Columbine killers wore black trench coats, eventually calling them goths for the sake of scaring up more readers/viewers/whatever.

Random Havoc · 02-10-2010, 07:34 PM

Quote:

The next morning, Dennis was standing in the reception of Mount Vernon middle school demanding to know what had been done to Zachary.

Sounds like a complaint.

Renatus · 02-10-2010, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Havoc

Sounds like a complaint.

A complaint about the scars, not about him teaching intelligent design. Also you still haven't told me if you want a cookie or not.

Random Havoc · 02-10-2010, 07:37 PM

Yes, but ID can not be taught in schools. If the investigation of the burns reveals he is teaching ID in his classroom, it no longer matters if anyone complains.

Let me use your drug example. A neighbour is throwing a very loud party, their neighbours call the police on the noise complaint. The police show up and go to silence the party and find a 10 lb bag of cocaine on the table, they don't get off with a noise violation ticket.

Renatus · 02-10-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Havoc

Yes, but ID can not be taught in schools. If the investigation of the burns reveals he is teaching ID in his classroom, it no longer matters if anyone complains.

Let me use your drug example. A neighbour is throwing a very loud party, their neighbours call the police on the noise complaint. The police show up and go to silence the party and find a 10 lb bag of cocaine on the table, they don't get off with a noise violation ticket.

That much cocaine would get you in alot of trouble on it's own if you were caught with it, the law is very specific when it comes to quantities and types of narcotics.

Here's another example two 16 year olds in Wisconsin have sex, in Wisconsin, thats against the law but they dont get caught, it doesnt offend anyone, and they brag about having sex. Then one of them gets caught with 10 lb of cocaine, and somone testifies against them, and while in court one of the witnesses against the accused casually mentioned how they were bragging about having sex despite the law against it, are you saying they should add that crime to the list of offenses?

Random Havoc · 02-10-2010, 07:58 PM

They probably would, yes.. Am I saying they SHOULD, no, but I'm not particularly against teens over the age of 15 having sex.. It depends on the crime, I have a serious problem with teaching wacky ideas that border on lunacy in a science classroom, but not everyone else thinks it's an issue. For the record though, any Science teacher that was unable to convince his superiors that he wasn't teaching ID after being accused of it would lose his job, at minimum. So it IS equivalent to the cocaine in that he would have gotten in trouble for it anyways, just it came out a secondary way.

Saya · 02-10-2010, 08:00 PM

Refusing to educate children is tantamount to denying them education and violating their right to education. Two teenagers having sex does not amount to the same thing.

And regardless, he's a definite nutjob if he's burning kids, whether its a cross or not.

Renatus · 02-10-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saya

Refusing to educate children is tantamount to denying them education and violating their right to education. Two teenagers having sex does not amount to the same thing.

And regardless, he's a definite nutjob if he's burning kids, whether its a cross or not.

They're both crimes legally speaking, and for the sake of the example, thats all that was necessery. As for whether or not they should be crimes, thats a matter of opinion. Nobody wants a cookie?

Saya · 02-10-2010, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renatus

They're both crimes legally speaking, and for the sake of the example, thats all that was necessery. As for whether or not they should be crimes, thats a matter of opinion. Nobody wants a cookie?

No, two teenagers having sex together when it involves no one else but them is their business and hurts no one. Brainwashing children to think two plus two is five is abusive. They are both illegal yes but one actually harms many many people and has huge ethical problems, of course there's a bigger chance of legal action against the teacher than two kids fondling each other.

Renatus · 02-10-2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saya

No, two teenagers having sex together when it involves no one else but them is their business and hurts no one. Brainwashing children to think two plus two is five is abusive. They are both illegal yes but one actually harms many many people and has huge ethical problems, of course there's a bigger chance of legal action against the teacher than two kids fondling each other.

Presenting two different viewpoints is hardly brainwashing. You might as well say I'm trying to brainwash you while you're at it. Surely you want a cookie.

Random Havoc · 02-10-2010, 08:35 PM

ID isn't a different viewpoint. A science room is a place where you teach SCIENCE. ID isn't science, it is a refutation of science. You don't go into a history classroom and teach the theory that all history is an illusion. It may or may not be a valid viewpoint, depending upon whom you ask, but you don't teach it in a class specifically designed to teach History. You don't teach the theory that written language is useless in a Language classroom. You don't teach the theory that 2+2 can equal any number you want it to in a Math classroom. There are just some things that while open for debate in public, and private, are not subject to be taught in ANY classroom. Religious viewpoints can have a place in schools, in a religious studies classroom. I know many people that have taken such courses in both college and some forward thinking high schools. But you do not teach anti-science in a science classroom. Period.