"Evil" States

[Utho]

I am living in Germany, and throughout the past weeks I tried a lil experiment on the ppl I came across.
Repeatedly I spoke of "my friend from the evil empire", just to find out how ppl reacted.
Actually I was shocked that not a single person contradicted me (on the term I used for the US) - but nearly everyone had a comment on some cruelties, connected with Bushs war - and on them "Americans".
This is pretty bad in my eyes, because the majority of the ppl I spoke to see the average American as a type of arrogant and superbly ignorant "Herrenmensch" - who tries to dominate the world thru´ military might and fabricated lies.

This is s th I fully disagree with, because I know about the difference between governments - and the ppl they claim to represent. And - I know how ppl are kept behind an administration by s th one could call "good PR". Very much so in the US.

Now, with St.Obama as new US president ahead - may I ask - what do you think will change in US foreign affairs - and nationally?

[Despanan]

How many pages do you want my essay to be? Does it have to be in 12 point font?

I'd say with the reaction Obama's already gotten from foreigners, it'll go back to pretty much everyone liking us and copying our fashions, culture, etc.

[Eclipsing the Son]

Originally Posted by Despanan

How many pages do you want my essay to be? Does it have to be in 12 point font?

I'd say with the reaction Obama's already gotten from foreigners, it'll go back to pretty much everyone liking us and copying our fashions, culture, etc.

Which just goes to show how fickle minded and gullible other nations are.

[Necrophagist]

Sheep!tjmtad

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Eclipsing the Son

Which just goes to show how fickle minded and gullible other nations are.

Well, yeah, but when the president doesn't really have that many powers, Obama as an icon is already a good enough result.

[Maggoty Anne]

If people are stupid enough to judge an entire nation's population based on the acts of their government, should we really care what their view of us is? We could just as easily say "Oh yeah? Well, what about the Holocaust?" to Germans, or "Why don't you explain WWII?" to France and Britain (Treaty of Versailles). While both those events are ancient history, a lot of people that are now involved in politics (me) had no say in what happened in Iraq, and are being judged for the actions of our elders.

Another thing that bothers me is the stereotype that we're all fat. We are, because we're poor. Do you know how much healthy food costs here? It's a fucking nightmare. We have no proper programs to prevent obesity (or any other illness) so... fuck you. Eh. I'm just sad because I want to move to the UK and I know I'm going to be judged harshly for what my country has done. Isn't it strange that we all love to bitch about our country, but when someone else from a different country does we get offended? When I'm in Canadia everyone is always bitching about "those stupid Americans. -But not you, dear."

I'm not even a native American, I'm a Canuck.

[CptSternn]

The only truly evil states are the ones that call the others evil.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Maggoty Anne

If people are stupid enough to judge an entire nation's population based on the acts of their government, should we really care what their view of us is? We could just as easily say "Oh yeah? Well, what about the Holocaust?" to Germans, or "Why don't you explain WWII?" to France and Britain (Treaty of Versailles). While both those events are ancient history, a lot of people that are now involved in politics (me) had no say in what happened in Iraq, and are being judged for the actions of our elders.

Another thing that bothers me is the stereotype that we're all fat. We are, because we're poor. Do you know how much healthy food costs here? It's a fucking nightmare. We have no proper programs to prevent obesity (or any other illness) so... fuck you. Eh. I'm just sad because I want to move to the UK and I know I'm going to be judged harshly for what my country has done. Isn't it strange that we all love to bitch about our country, but when someone else from a different country does we get offended? When I'm in Canadia everyone is always bitching about "those stupid Americans. -But not you, dear."

I'm not even a native American, I'm a Canuck.

I knew you were too smart to be an American

[Utho]

@Maggoty Anne
I think people are bound to judge other countries/social groups/systems of belief according to the information they get and - beyond that - are willing to consider.
Due to the fact that ppl are not too willing to question the good of their own social group (cave), other groups are often judged according to "banal" stereotypes.

It all depends on properly balanced information, in my eyes.

When you get to go to the UK, you probably won´t find much harsh judgement against the US voiced in your direction. (Apart from the usual background-noise from the quota of fools you´d find erverywhere, of course.)

English people share your language. People from the UK are probably very much aware of how fierce the opposition to the neo-con agenda amongst Americans really is; the problem I referred to starts with a language-barrier.

Originally Posted by CptSternn

The only truly evil states are the ones that call the others evil.

@CptSternn
Thanx for sayin this.
I would not contradict a bit.

The point I was actually aiming for, was the one that the perceptions ppl get about other states, are totally depending on the impressions they are being served.

[LiUsAiDh]

Originally Posted by Utho

When you get to go to the UK, you probably won´t find much harsh judgement against the US voiced in your direction. (Apart from the usual background-noise from the quota of fools you´d find erverywhere, of course.)

English people share your language. People from the UK are probably very much aware of how fierce the opposition to the neo-con agenda amongst Americans really is; the problem I referred to starts with a language-barrier.

Wrong. A huge amount of people here are prejudiced towards Americans, for a multitude of reasons. Including, most prominently, dragging the UK into Iraq over our 'special relationship'. Not to mention all the 'fat' and 'thick' jokes about Americans. Not saying I believe this, by the way, but most people here do.

Oh, and, pet peeve. England =/= UK

[Utho]

@LiUsAiDh
Right, gotta start with an apology.
I was negligent when mixing the terms of "UK" and "English ppl". Being an outsider to this sensitivity, I tend to forget about it. Sorry.

What I said was based on the feedback I got from media and personal contacts, although ... I know the common perception of "smaller brains", many Britons tend to attach to ppl from the US. But to me this is simply another stereotype, relevant to a certain segment of population.
- And as I said, there is always some dumb-arse background "radiation" to be expected.


Oh, and BTW. I always found the "dragging the UK into Iraq"-argument somewhat remarkable. Do you know that the borders of Iraq and Kuwait were designed mostly in London? - Any American could be arguing that they only had to go there to clear up the mess left by the Britons.

[HumanePain]

"St. Obama" LOL!

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by LiUsAiDh

Wrong. A huge amount of people here are prejudiced towards Americans, for a multitude of reasons. Including, most prominently, dragging the UK into Iraq over our 'special relationship'. Not to mention all the 'fat' and 'thick' jokes about Americans. Not saying I believe this, by the way, but most people here do.

Oh, and, pet peeve. England =/= UK

Most people I've talked to over here actualy think we're in good standing with the rest of the world, including some of the more well traveled ones. I keep wondering where they get their information from, the U.S. Embassy? I on the other hand for example over xbox live on Call of Duty 4 have been called by British children(who are far younger than the game rating) a fat American.

I've wondered about the whole England UK thing so let me see if I have it straight, in a comparison with the United States.
UK=United States of America, England= the state of Maryland, London=Washington D.C.

[viscus]

Originally Posted by Renatus

I've wondered about the whole England UK thing so let me see if I have it straight, in a comparison with the United States.
UK=United States of America, England= the state of Maryland, London=Washington D.C.

Kind of. London is more like D.C. and New York City combined because it is also Britain's economic capital. You can't compare England to a state though, because the UK has a unitary system of government, not a federal one. It's more like a region.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Utho

@LiUsAiDh
Oh, and BTW. I always found the "dragging the UK into Iraq"-argument somewhat remarkable. Do you know that the borders of Iraq and Kuwait were designed mostly in London? - Any American could be arguing that they only had to go there to clear up the mess left by the Britons.

Don't get me started on this. I have many, many pages on this in the POLITICS section.

The brits invaded and held Iraq until they were forced to pull out due to WW2. They were fighting the same 'insurgency' then as they are now.

Iraqi history intersects with Irish history a few times. For example, did ye know the black and tans, that shower of bastards, when forced out of Ireland were relocated by the brits to Iraq to bring their hatred and hostility there?

I could go on for hours about this topic, but yeah, the brits started this - the American government is technically picking up their mess from back in the 1940's.

[Utho]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Iraqi history intersects with Irish history a few times. For example, did ye know the black and tans, that shower of bastards, when forced out of Ireland were relocated by the brits to Iraq to bring their hatred and hostility there?

Nope! Did not know this! Thanks for updating me !

I believe the doctrine of "balance of power" was/is one of the first reasons, why present day Iraq is such a mixture of ppl that hate each others guts.
The Brits and the French designed the borders of countries in Africa very much the same way - so there are lots of Rwandas and Burundis, that are living in uneasy borders which are a relict of the colonial nations.

[viscus]

Yeah, and I don't think America dragged Britain into anything. The British government will always toe the line with American foreign policy, regardless of who's in power in either country, Tory or Labour, Democrat or Republican.

[LiUsAiDh]

Originally Posted by Utho

@LiUsAiDh
What I said was based on the feedback I got from media and personal contacts, although ... I know the common perception of "smaller brains", many Britons tend to attach to ppl from the US. But to me this is simply another stereotype, relevant to a certain segment of population.
- And as I said, there is always some dumb-arse background "radiation" to be expected.


Oh, and BTW. I always found the "dragging the UK into Iraq"-argument somewhat remarkable. Do you know that the borders of Iraq and Kuwait were designed mostly in London? - Any American could be arguing that they only had to go there to clear up the mess left by the Britons.

Stereotype, yes, but most people believe it. Including some very intelligent ones.

What? Of course it was, not about the American government wanting more oil, or anything...

[Solumina]

I really can't say that I have encountered much prejudice when traveling abroad...though I have gotten a few marriage proposals from middle aged men. Maybe people are more prejudice when you aren't face to face, maybe they showed no prejudice because it is quickly apparent that I don't fit the stereotype.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Solumina

I really can't say that I have encountered much prejudice when traveling abroad...though I have gotten a few marriage proposals from middle aged men. Maybe people are more prejudice when you aren't face to face, maybe they showed no prejudice because it is quickly apparent that I don't fit the stereotype.

Thats funny because playing on the fear of prejudice, I remember at one time they were selling these kits to American tourists so they could disguise themselves as Canadians XD

[Jaye Jang]

Dear folks,

On the subject of dictators, bill collectors, cranky relatives, bad politics and other 'turkeys', these words of wisdom from Maxine should help. >

Wisdom from Maxine...
Everyone concentrates on the problems we're having in this country lately -- illegal immigration, hurricane recovery, alligators attacking people in Florida...not me -- I concentrate on solutions for the problems -- it's a win-win situation:
1) Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border.
2) Send the dirt to New Orleans to raise the level of the levees.
3) Put the Florida alligators in the moat along the Mexican border.

Are there any other problems you would like for me to solve today?
Yes?! Think about these: 1. Cows, 2. The Constitution, 3. The Ten Commandments.
Cows: Is it just me, or does anyone else find it amazing that, during the mad cow epidemic, our government could track a single cow, born in Canada almost three years ago, right to the stall where she slept in the State of Washington? And, they tracked each of her calves to their stalls, but they are unable to locate 11 million illegal aliens wandering around our nation. Maybe, we should give each of them a cow...

The Constitution: They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.. Whydon't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it has worked for over 200 years, and we're not using it anymore...

The Ten Commandments: The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments posted in a courthouse is this -- You cannot post: "Thou shalt not steal.", "Thou shalt not commit adultery.", and "Thou shalt not lie.", in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians... It creates a hostile work environment.

Happy Thanksgiving (AKA Turkey day) all.
__________________
"Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself ~ Mark Twain

My solution to the whole conundrum -- next election let's elect Maxine President. 'nuff said.

[Drake Dun]

Moats and alligators! The brilliance! Why didn't we hit upon this kind of thinking before?

Oh, that's right. We did. It brought us a few thousand years of insanity and mass murder, which we now cynically refer to as "history".

It's the same process which brought us little gems like people who can, in the same post, whine about lack of respect for the U.S. Constitution, and express resentment that the nation's courthouses can't be used as a forum for the promotion of their own laughable religious code, even though the constitution in question forbids such and when compared side by side amounts in significant part to a tit for tat rejection of the same.

Go kill a native American or something. It'll make you feel better about yourself. And for the record, Iraq has had a new constitution since 2005. That constitution enshrines Islamic Law in what used to be the closest thing to a sane, secular state in the entire region. Isn't it nice to know that we're spreading freedom and democracy around the world?

[Jaye Jang]

Drake Dun,

No offense meant, dude, but Maxine is a cartoon character. Obviously, you don't read the Sunday funnies.

[Ms.Crowbar]

Originally Posted by Utho

@Maggoty Anne
I think people are bound to judge other countries/social groups/systems of belief according to the information they get and - beyond that - are willing to consider.
Due to the fact that ppl are not too willing to question the good of their own social group (cave), other groups are often judged according to "banal" stereotypes.

It all depends on properly balanced information, in my eyes.

When you get to go to the UK, you probably won´t find much harsh judgement against the US voiced in your direction. (Apart from the usual background-noise from the quota of fools you´d find erverywhere, of course.)

English people share your language. People from the UK are probably very much aware of how fierce the opposition to the neo-con agenda amongst Americans really is; the problem I referred to starts with a language-barrier.



@CptSternn
Thanx for sayin this.
I would not contradict a bit.

The point I was actually aiming for, was the one that the perceptions ppl get about other states, are totally depending on the impressions they are being served.

Ah-hem. Just the English?

[Utho]

Äh - People from the UK?
Damn.