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Old 01-13-2013, 07:44 PM   #1
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Trickle Down Feminism

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/artic...-down-feminism

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If you read what is popularly known as the feminist press, you’ll notice a focus on the “glass ceiling” that excludes much else. Feminist writers are found celebrating the achievements of Facebook CEO Sheryl Sandburg, cheering Christine Lagarde’s position at the International Monetary Fund, wringing their hands over Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer’s refusal to call herself a feminist, or asking, as Anne-Marie Slaughter did in the pages of the Atlantic, whether (white, well-off, educated) women can “have it all.”

While we debate the travails of some of the world’s most privileged women, most women are up against the wall. According to the Sargent Shriver National Center on Poverty Law, women make up just under half of the national workforce, but about 60 percent of the minimum-wage workforce and 73 percent of tipped workers. In the New York area, a full 95 percent of domestic workers are female. Female-dominated sectors such as retail sales, food service, and home health care are some of the fastest-growing fields in the new economy, and even in those fields, women earn less; women in the restaurant industry earn 83 cents to a man’s dollar.

This is where most women spend their time, not atop the Googleplex. This is where feminists should be spending their time, too.

The stakes are clear. Domestic workers, home care workers, nurses, and other largely female contingents must organize their workplaces or the work that most women do will continue to be undervalued, virtually unregulated, and precarious. The deunionization that has left about 88 percent of American workers without unions will drag the rest of us down as well.

And yet for much of mainstream feminist discourse, it’s as if the economy hasn’t shifted, or as if there’s nothing about it worth examining from the standpoint of gender. As uprisings in Wisconsin and Ohio over union rights rocked the country, as a movement for economic justice took to streets and parks around the world, I watched feminist writers seem to give a collective shrug. As Laurie Penny wrote in the New Statesman, “While we all worry about the glass ceiling, there are millions of women standing in the basement—and the basement is flooding.”

The brave new economy being rebuilt in the wake of the financial meltdown is being built on low-wage service work, as manufacturing’s decline has accelerated and construction ground to a halt. At the beginning of the Great Recession, economist Heather Boushey noted at Slate, manufacturing and construction made up fully half the jobs lost, along with financial services and other business fields, and writers declared the “Mancession” or “He-cession” or even, as Hanna Rosin’s popular book has it, The End of Men. But as others have pointed out, as the recession drags on, it’s women who’ve faced the largest losses, not only in direct attacks on public sector jobs that are dominated by women, but in increased competition from the men pushed out of their previous professions. Some 60 percent of the jobs lost in the public sector were held by women, according to the Institute for Women’s Policy Research. And women have regained only 12 percent of the jobs lost during the recession, while men have regained 63 percent of the jobs they lost.

Women may be overrepresented in the growing sectors of the economy, but those sectors pay poverty wages. The public sector job cuts that have been largely responsible for unemployment remaining at or near 8 percent have fallen disproportionately on women (and women of color are hit the hardest). Those good union jobs disappear, and are replaced with a minimum-wage gig at Walmart—and even in retail, women make only 90 percent of what men make.

“All work is gendered. And the economy that we have assigns different levels of value based off of that,” says Ai-Jen Poo, executive director of the National Domestic Workers Alliance. Poo came to labor organizing through feminism. As a volunteer in a domestic violence shelter for Asian immigrant women, she explains, she realized that it was women who had economic opportunities who were able to break the cycle of violence. She brings a sharp gender analysis to the struggle for respect and better treatment for the workers, mostly women, who “make all other work possible.”
This isn't the whole article, its longer and well worth the read.

A woman I volunteer with were talking a bit about this issue today, not so much in terms of labour (although we got on the topic because she's doing her thesis on Walmart union efforts), but just talking about the failure of white, cis, and/or middle class feminism to see the movement as something other than what benefits them, such as not being inclusive of gender minorities, Caitlin Moran saying she doesn't give a shit if people of colour aren't represented on TV, etc. Its something that is increasingly frustrating me and "trickle down feminism" is a wonderful way to describe the lack of attention to women's poverty and labour rights, as well as anything well off feminists decide to ignore in favour of what is important to them.
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:31 AM   #2
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That's not a "feminist thing" its a "human thing". Though, you would hope that in our efforts to achieve full equality we'd work on bringing every one else with us.

As far as domestic work goes. We (western culture) have gotten to a point where we disrespect the people who run the world in all the most real and fundamental ways. If you think about it, humans can exist quite nicely without presidents, lawyers, and all manner of executive. But the world would come to a complete standstill if the people who cook for and clean the world were to disappear. This attitude can be seen plainly in the amount people are paid for their work, as money is pretty much just a place holder for the value of one's time and effort.

Hmm, might not just be a problem of western culture, India did have that caste system.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:19 AM   #3
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That's not a "feminist thing" its a "human thing". Though, you would hope that in our efforts to achieve full equality we'd work on bringing every one else with us.

As far as domestic work goes. We (western culture) have gotten to a point where we disrespect the people who run the world in all the most real and fundamental ways. If you think about it, humans can exist quite nicely without presidents, lawyers, and all manner of executive. But the world would come to a complete standstill if the people who cook for and clean the world were to disappear. This attitude can be seen plainly in the amount people are paid for their work, as money is pretty much just a place holder for the value of one's time and effort.

Hmm, might not just be a problem of western culture, India did have that caste system.


NOPE.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:08 AM   #4
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Honestly...

Gonna be a tad coarse in this one.

If you're a feminist but you don't give half a fucking fuck about minorities, other genders, orientations, and income equality; then you are useless to the rest of us.

Great. There's now women CEOs and female captains of industry.

But what about the workers who don't deserve to be at the beck and call and whims and mercy of bosses?

Trickle down feminism. Wow. That's a good one.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:30 AM   #5
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NOPE.
Care to expand?
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:39 AM   #6
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Being a little slow on the uptake today, I just realize that was you "noping" out of wanting to get into the problematic nature of my comments.

Not only was it a little on the derailing side it completely ignored that the issue really does need to be treated specifically within the feminist movement which does tend do ignore the problems and issues faced by working class women. Am I getting warm?

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Old 01-15-2013, 11:41 AM   #7
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Being a little slow on the uptake today, I just realize that was you "noping" out of wanting to get into the problematic nature of my comments.

Not only was it a little on the derailing side it completely ignored that the issue really does need to be treated specifically within the feminist movement which does tend do ignore the problems and issues faced by working class women. Am I getting warm?

Well fancy that, a narrow minded,hate speech spewing special interest group not giving a shit about others.....color me shocked.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:47 PM   #8
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Well fancy that, a narrow minded,hate speech spewing special interest group not giving a shit about others.....color me shocked.
Choke on a whale penis deadman. It wasn't one of your posts.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:10 PM   #9
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Choke on a whale penis deadman. It wasn't one of your posts.
You know I would ask how standing up for the rights of all U.S. citizens is special interest hate spewage....but then again I would have to believe that you can form thoughts on your own in order to answer the question.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:18 PM   #10
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Hey, MOC, don't you love how he has no idea what he's talking about and is only vaguely coherent regarding the conversation at hand?

I bet he didn't even read the article.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:23 PM   #11
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Probably not. Plus, I think his version of "all people" is actually white men. Although the article did lack information on gender variant people. Being that their employment rates are drastically lower than that of heteronormative people. But then again, it did touch on WoC, so I guess I can't complain much.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:41 PM   #12
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Hey, MOC, don't you love how he has no idea what he's talking about and is only vaguely coherent regarding the conversation at hand?

I bet he didn't even read the article.
Yes I did,which is why my post is a reaction of such,because feminism only supports one special group and has done such for generations.

The reason for what you see now is due to divison within the population,one group howilng and ranting about how bad of a deal they got while undermining another.

When if we as a people,not as one gender or race actually worked toward the same goals (real equality,not gender biased pissing and moaning) we would be in much better shape as a nation.

Instead of supporting the rights of the individual what has happened is everyone has been divided into a group,and then that group is further divided into a sub group.

In otherwords what it has turned into is factions fighting over which will be the best slave instead of working together and making a better society with the same rights for all to enjoy.

Instead of holding one back and giving the other a push,why not allow both to use their strengths to the full potential?

What the hell could it hurt except the foolish pride of a few?
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:13 PM   #13
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The issue with that, is that it deminishes and denies minority groups the problems and difficulties they face. It doesn't fix what is wrong it ignores them.

( this posting via cell phone is getting exhausting. I really need a compy for this crap.)
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:32 PM   #14
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The issue with that, is that it deminishes and denies minority groups the problems and difficulties they face. It doesn't fix what is wrong it ignores them.

( this posting via cell phone is getting exhausting. I really need a compy for this crap.)
Are you saying that minorities aren't human beings? because that's what it sounds like to me in the quoted post above.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:45 PM   #15
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The issue with that, is that it deminishes and denies minority groups the problems and difficulties they face. It doesn't fix what is wrong it ignores them.

( this posting via cell phone is getting exhausting. I really need a compy for this crap.)
What I'm saying applies to all citizens across the board at the individual level that is the only way that the nation as a whole has a chance to become better than what we were.

Why is it that whenever I bring up equal rights and protections for all,a few on here want to push one group ahead of the other and continue the division game?

We are human beings after all.
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:43 PM   #16
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Probably not. Plus, I think his version of "all people" is actually white men. Although the article did lack information on gender variant people. Being that their employment rates are drastically lower than that of heteronormative people. But then again, it did touch on WoC, so I guess I can't complain much.
You do realize that you are the one bringing the subject of race into this right?


What part of the constitution and B.O.R. applying to all U.S. citizens is so hard to fucking process?

Do I really need to spell it out for you?

Because when I say all U.S. citizens I do in fact fucking mean ALL U.S. CITIZENS
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:42 PM   #17
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I understand the idea behind what you're saying. But it it doesn't really help to ignore the various problems different kinds of people face. Being willfully blind towards a problem doesn't make it go away, magically.

We need a multifaceted movement that acknowledges the various challenges people face, addresses the problems and helps to bring about real true equality.

One thing the article does is help to point out people who may have been forgotten in other parts of the movement. It can be pretty easy for people to get left out, as others are unaware of the unique sorts of challenges faced by various minorities.

Things like gender and race are fundamental topics to discuss, in an effort to make sure that people are freer to live better lives, to have equal opportunities open, and to be able to live lives where one doesn't live in fear of constant harassment and unfair treatment by those in authority.

The constitution is a good thing, but it needs people to keep hammering away at it until it works for everyone. When it was forged it didn't keep people of color from being owned and abused, nor did it guarantee people of color or women the right to vote. These freedoms we're not granted until much later in American history. The experiment is still running, and now its our turn to try to make it better.

Whether you see it or not, there are people who get treated as less than full human beings by other people due to things like the color of their skin, their gender, their sexual orientation or gender expression, their disabilities all shit a person can't help, things that don't hurt any one else. That shit's fucked up, so we do our best to understand it and fight it.
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:29 PM   #18
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The mainstream hate speech of Feminism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQWoNhrY_fM

G.W.W. shines light on the dirty little secret (that isn't really a secret) of Feminism
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:03 PM   #19
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I understand the idea behind what you're saying. But it it doesn't really help to ignore the various problems different kinds of people face. Being willfully blind towards a problem doesn't make it go away, magically.

We need a multifaceted movement that acknowledges the various challenges people face, addresses the problems and helps to bring about real true equality.

One thing the article does is help to point out people who may have been forgotten in other parts of the movement. It can be pretty easy for people to get left out, as others are unaware of the unique sorts of challenges faced by various minorities.

Things like gender and race are fundamental topics to discuss, in an effort to make sure that people are freer to live better lives, to have equal opportunities open, and to be able to live lives where one doesn't live in fear of constant harassment and unfair treatment by those in authority.

The constitution is a good thing, but it needs people to keep hammering away at it until it works for everyone. When it was forged it didn't keep people of color from being owned and abused, nor did it guarantee people of color or women the right to vote. These freedoms we're not granted until much later in American history. The experiment is still running, and now its our turn to try to make it better.

Whether you see it or not, there are people who get treated as less than full human beings by other people due to things like the color of their skin, their gender, their sexual orientation or gender expression, their disabilities all shit a person can't help, things that don't hurt any one else. That shit's fucked up, so we do our best to understand it and fight it.
Honestly when white dudes wholesale cut off feminism because of shit like this, I think it betrays their own white/hetero/cis supremacy. Womanism, Muslim feminism, trans feminism, queer feminism, Marxist feminism, anarcho-feminism, etc etc, are just as legitimate forms of feminism as corporate feminism, if not more so. Its our movement too, we're just frustrated that those with more money and race privilege and cis privilege and hetero privilege get heard more, because sexist, homophobic, racist audiences, feminist or not, are more willing to listen to them.

Its easy to only listen to heterosexual middle class white women, because those are the only women they're willing to interact with anyway and want under their thumb. Women of colour, queer women, trans women, well, they're the ones who get the same shit and then some, they're the ones who get killed. No one cares if we live or die.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:17 AM   #20
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Honestly when white dudes wholesale cut off feminism because of shit like this, I think it betrays their own white/hetero/cis supremacy. Womanism, Muslim feminism, trans feminism, queer feminism, Marxist feminism, anarcho-feminism, etc etc, are just as legitimate forms of feminism as corporate feminism, if not more so. Its our movement too, we're just frustrated that those with more money and race privilege and cis privilege and hetero privilege get heard more, because sexist, homophobic, racist audiences, feminist or not, are more willing to listen to them.

Its easy to only listen to heterosexual middle class white women, because those are the only women they're willing to interact with anyway and want under their thumb. Women of colour, queer women, trans women, well, they're the ones who get the same shit and then some, they're the ones who get killed. No one cares if we live or die. DMW_05 Says:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQWoNhrY_fM

G.W.W. shines light on the dirty little secret (that isn't really a secret) of Feminism

Yeah how it that "message blocked thing" working out for you lately?
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:37 AM   #21
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Honestly when white dudes wholesale cut off feminism because of shit like this, I think it betrays their own white/hetero/cis supremacy. Womanism, Muslim feminism, trans feminism, queer feminism, Marxist feminism, anarcho-feminism, etc etc, are just as legitimate forms of feminism as corporate feminism, if not more so. Its our movement too, we're just frustrated that those with more money and race privilege and cis privilege and hetero privilege get heard more, because sexist, homophobic, racist audiences, feminist or not, are more willing to listen to them.

Its easy to only listen to heterosexual middle class white women, because those are the only women they're willing to interact with anyway and want under their thumb. Women of colour, queer women, trans women, well, they're the ones who get the same shit and then some, they're the ones who get killed. No one cares if we live or die.
Yeah, pretty much. It is really easy to stay entrenched in that system of thought, especially if that's pretty much all you've known, and had shoved down your throat by family, school and media from the time you're born. It can be hard to see at first and even harder to examine and know what to do with the information.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:28 PM   #22
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Yeah, pretty much. It is really easy to stay entrenched in that system of thought, especially if that's pretty much all you've known, and had shoved down your throat by family, school and media from the time you're born. It can be hard to see at first and even harder to examine and know what to do with the information.
Its really hard to get out of, and I don't think anyone has an easy time getting out of it. Its a long process, and it'll probably be with you to the day you die. In class the other day we were talking about Marxist feminism and anarcho-feminism and how hard it would be mentally for us to switch to a communal system after being entrenched in individualism, even though we might really really want to be communal, but it would probably be much easier for the next generation if we're careful. But its like that with most things, the more entitled we feel to be dismissive of other's struggles, the harder it is to let go of our privilege. Or they feel that only one or two things need to change and society would be fine. So its easy for rich or middle class cis hetero white women to dismiss feminism because they profit enough from patriarchy, hell, I even know a lesbian or two who feel like they have enough of a stake in kyriarchy to defend the whole mess.

Plus the average person doesn't exactly have much exposure to feminism either. I got a little shocked at a coworker who asked me if a customer was a he or a she, and I was just like "they didn't tell me their preferred gender pronoun...?" I think she sensed I thought that was rude and apologized but I could tell she didn't know why I thought it was rude. Its hard to be too hard on her in that case, but on the other hand, its so super super important for gender etiquette to be known, you know? And because it was a coworker I felt awkward about making that a teaching moment. But there's a lot of people too who should really fucking know better, and for them I have no patience.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:42 PM   #23
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For the sake of avoiding being rude...

How does one go about knowing how to address someone when one can't identify gender and the information isn't provided yet you want to avoid being wrong?

Oddly enough, I don't know any gender neutral pro-nouns off the top of my head. *Off to look some up*
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:48 PM   #24
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For the sake of avoiding being rude...

How does one go about knowing how to address someone when one can't identify gender and the information isn't provided yet you want to avoid being wrong?

Oddly enough, I don't know any gender neutral pro-nouns off the top of my head. *Off to look some up*
You could just ask them.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:55 PM   #25
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*shrugs* Well I could, but I guess it just seems awkward. Maybe I'm being too sensitive about it.
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