Speaking of Ayn Rand... - Page 2

KontanKarite · 01-31-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

What you're saying would apply to this conversation if I ever said that social programs should be done away with in entirety. You're arguing with someone that isn't here.

The standards set for social programs are already stringent enough. Just to get food stamps you MUST be working a minimum of 20 hours a week. I was a full time student for 40 hours a week and I COULD NOT QUALIFY FOR EBT. You assert that the standards that those must meet for welfare are too lax. Where do we draw the line, Ophelia? Where do we conclude that someone is INDEED in an honest poverty? Have you ever used the social programs in place? They actually have one hell of a screening process. It's NOT THAT EASY.

KontanKarite · 01-31-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

What you're saying would apply to this conversation if I ever said that social programs should be done away with in entirety. You're arguing with someone that isn't here.

One more thing. Can you show me in your hero's writing where she EVER supported social programs that didn't just protect property?

Alan · 01-31-2011, 11:50 AM

More importantly, why champion Rand's ideas at all? She hasn't actually said it.
We're being too lenient on her. First she doesn't care about evidence; then she's a crusader for truth. Also objectivism is inspiring, but we're not talking about self-esteem or well-being.

We demand consistency.

Despanan · 01-31-2011, 11:54 AM

You missed my point Ophie. I'm saying that the parasites you're arguing against don't exist in any significant sense, and even if they did Objectivist philosophy is not the answer to them. It's far better to provide for this "Lazy and weak" minority than to find ourselves on the business end of a guillotine.

Besides, at the risk of going off on a tangent, I would argue that the current social programs we have in this country aren't sufficient to begin with, and what little we have are under attack by Libertarian and Tea-Party backed legislation.

Like it or not crime, civil war, and revolt IS the ultimate logical outcome of a society which embraces Objectivism. Economic oppression by the powerful is the Randian endgame.

Her philosophy just doesn't work in the real world, and her own use of social programs in her time of need is proof of this.

KontanKarite · 01-31-2011, 12:10 PM

Then Ophelia got spanked. The end. Speaking of Randian Endgame worlds, I highly doubt Ophelia would survive.

Alan · 01-31-2011, 12:22 PM

We must remember, after all, the hero of Atlas Shrugged figured out differential equations by himself at age 9. Very realistic and riveting characters.

Despanan · 01-31-2011, 12:39 PM

When I was nine I figured out not to cut towards myself when carving a custom neckerchief slide for my cub-scout uniform.

Someone should write a book where I'm the hero.

KontanKarite · 01-31-2011, 01:07 PM

You guys aint got shit on me. At 9, I figured out how to manifest raw materials from thin air. I then started my own business, hiring desperate lower-class to middle-class workers to work at minimum wage. I was a fucking genius. Those social commie parasites thought they could get one on ol' Double K by saying that I had to pay these wretches health insurance. So instead, I hired two people to work below part time at minimum wage so that no one could get health insurance from me. Hell fucking no. Fuck them. Then I told them they had to work extra hours beyond their schedule at the most inconvenient times to maximize production. They don't like it, they can find a new job! Fuck them.

After I became a corporate mega house, I just created a shit load of trust funds that create more revenue then I could ever dream of.

I'm retired at 12 years old and all I do now is sit back on my easy chair or go fishing.

You fuckers need to get with the program. I earned EVERY LITTLE BIT I HAD! I fought the commies when my rich family was exiled from their country too.

I am as self-made as you can possibly be. It's not my fault that the peasants are willing to work by the standards I set. Hell, I'm such a corporate powerhouse, I bulldoze over small companies and local companies to KEEP THEM THAT WAY. It's my way or the fucking highway.

I'm the fucking man. Fuck society. They aint getting a BEAN out of me. In my world you EARN your fucking keep!

Despanan · 01-31-2011, 01:14 PM

You wouldn't happen to own a soup company would you double K?

KontanKarite · 01-31-2011, 01:23 PM

No. But I do respect J.D. Boruff and his work ethic. You can tell that man isn't lazy. He wont put up with no bullshit. His soup is the greatest in the market and that's a clear reflection of ingenuity, talent, and competence on his part. Other soup companies would be just like his if they weren't so WEAK AND LAZY!

Pineapple_Juice · 01-31-2011, 04:32 PM

Too much wordz. did not read.

Tried to read Atlas Shrugged. Lapsed into a boredom-induced coma. Never found out who John Galt was and I dun't curr. From what I've read of her, she seems like a selfish, egotistical idiot.

But I'm kind of dumb, so...

KontanKarite · 01-31-2011, 07:07 PM

No, she IS a selfish, egotistical idiot.

You know what... selfish isn't exactly the right word. Greedy perhaps.

Ayn Rand is simply put, someone who doesn't want to play fair. From what I've gathered, she's NEVER known starvation, she's NEVER known poverty. Her family split during the communist rev in Russia and they continued being a RICH family in America. She will always assume that the massive amount of wealth that she occurred is somehow equivalent to her contribution to society. I mean, come the mother fuck on... she was a FUCKING WRITER. She wasn't a server at a restaurant, she wasn't a factory worker, she wasn't a barista, she wasn't a homeless person, she wasn't a janitor, a policeman, soldier, or fire fighter. I wouldn't say that the labors of a writer are worthless in society, but I will say that at WHAT POINT is being a writer so god damned important that it deserves millions of dollars? And what kind of mother FUCKER do you have to be to have such a fucking amazing career such as being a writer and not feel compelled to be a philanthropist after realizing that it's the society that put you where you are and allows you to stay there. But to HELL with the idea that this woman should EVER have to give away 90% of her estate to the fucking public.

The only struggle this bitch ever fucking knew was having to move from one country as a rich spoiled girl into another country where she was a rich spoiled girl. Yeah, this is totally who I'd want to pick as my intellectual leader. You know, cause she could totally understand the lower classes viscerally in the comfort of her upper class artist job.

I know, Desp, that might rub you the wrong way. But that's honestly how I feel about the lady.

KontanKarite · 01-31-2011, 07:48 PM

I want to retool what I previously said and say that I think it's asinine to assume that an individual who has made more wealth than most can even ever attempt to imagine can feel that their efforts and contributions to society are indeed worth that much. I also think there's a huge difference between having wealth and security for the rest of your life and having so MUCH wealth that it's actually damaging to the society when that person tries to hoard it or avoid tax increases.

That whole tangent about her being a writer was a moot point and I shouldn't have implied a writer's contribution was less than someone else's.

KontanKarite · 01-31-2011, 08:22 PM

Actually, I just got some new information. I'm going to have to rethink my stance because apparently she actually did struggle quite a bit.

Despanan · 01-31-2011, 08:28 PM

Whoa, did some more reading on Ol' Rand. Looks like I wasn't correct in assuming she never struggled. Apparently her family had financial problems after the revolution and came "close to starvation" (though I don't know how much stock to put into that) and she was nearly kicked out of the university she attended for being from a previously rich family.

My bad. Girl probably did have it bad for a while.

Still, that does not excuse her worldview, nor does it make her ideas about humanity legitimate, or her political views good ideas to implement.

KontanKarite · 01-31-2011, 08:37 PM

Aye, that's why I'm back pedaling quite a bit here. I shouldn't have been too hasty in my judgment. If I'm to take someone like her down, I gotta be honest about it. Just because you've struggled and got to the top doesn't give you a free pass to be as antisocial and counter productive to the good of the community as possibly can. She was still never self made. Ever.

Alan · 01-31-2011, 08:48 PM

If it helps you guys, I knew her life and understood her 'philosophy' as an immature backlash to Bolshevism and I still hate her. It's possible.

KontanKarite · 01-31-2011, 08:56 PM

Oh no, she's still a total antisocial douchefag. Fuck her, she's an ass and her ideas are worthless.

Despanan · 01-31-2011, 08:57 PM

Yeah seriously, fuck that bitch.

New York has just made me hate rich people apparently.

KontanKarite · 01-31-2011, 08:58 PM

Why did New York make you hate rich people?

Despanan · 01-31-2011, 08:58 PM

Because they RUIN EVERYTHING.

KontanKarite · 01-31-2011, 09:19 PM

YOU'LL PAY FOR THIS, RICH PEOPLE!!! *shakes fist in the air*

Despanan · 01-31-2011, 09:28 PM

RIIIICHHHHHH PEEEEEOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPLLLLLLLEEEEEE!!!!1one.

Despanan · 01-31-2011, 09:37 PM

I was trying to find the awesome scene in gangs of New York, where they juxtapose the poor's prayers about God being vengeful and just with the rich's prayers about God being good and merciful, and then the poor people break into the rich people's house and kill the rich dude and steal their shit.

But it doesn't seem to be on, so enjoy this awesome scene instead.

Underwater Ophelia · 02-01-2011, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

More importantly, why champion Rand's ideas at all? She hasn't actually said it.
We're being too lenient on her. First she doesn't care about evidence; then she's a crusader for truth. Also objectivism is inspiring, but we're not talking about self-esteem or well-being.

We demand consistency.

Don't be an asshole.
I specified exactly why the evidence in this case didn't apply, I didn't say I didn't care about evidence. And I didn't say I was a crusader for truth, I said that the word "wise" implies a quality that gives one the ability to see truth, and therefore WASN'T A GOOD WORD TO USE.

If you disagree with things I say, that's cool, but don't make shit up to disagree with.