Diet starts... NOW!

[Ben Lahnger]

It's wrong to be prejudiced against people because of their race, creed or color. Lots of people posting in this thread have vehemently said so in posts all over this place (frequently in response to vindicatedxjin's blindingly racist posts.)

Most of us think it's wrong to make insensitive, derogatory statements about people based on their race, creed or color. We also know that some people are born with genetic and bio-chemical challenges to maintaining their weight.

So why isn't it wrong to make insensitive, derogatory statements about people based on their weight?
So why isn't it wrong to

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

It's wrong to be prejudiced against people because of their race, creed or color. Lots of people posting in this thread have vehemently said so in posts all over this place (frequently in response to vindicatedxjin's blindingly racist posts.)

Most of us think it's wrong to make insensitive, derogatory statements about people based on their race, creed or color. We also know that some people are born with genetic and bio-chemical challenges to maintaining their weight.

So why isn't it wrong to make insensitive, derogatory statements about people based on their weight?
So why isn't it wrong to

Because significant genetic predisposition to being a fatass is rare, it generally stems from poor diet and lack of exercise.

[Tam Li Hua]

I don't make New Year's resolutions. Not seriously, anyways; they don't seem to work for the majority of people, and seem to be often made in a drunken stupor.

The "Eat This, Not That" books have been a godsend to me. Granted, I -just- got serious about using them, but I think they're going to help a lot, especially considering I've never been a fan of short-term dieting, since one -eventually- has to go back to normal eating habits.

My husband's lost 30-40 lbs since this past summer just by eating right rather than taking on a crazy diet plan. I'm hoping for similar results from doing the same thing.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

...why isn't it wrong to make insensitive, derogatory statements about people based on their weight?

I have to agree with JCC to a point on this.

While there are people for whom being overweight isn't a choice, that's not the case 99% of the time. It's like claiming to be "big-boned". If you eat nothing but Cheetos and Dr. Pepper, and do nothing except watch TV or Internet browsing, then you shouldn't be surprised when you gain a lot of weight. [Take it from someone who knows.]

That being said, I -do- agree that I don't think bullying helps encourage folks to be healthy. I think it multiplies their reasons for over-eating in the first place. [Over-eaters usually use food in the same way that alcoholics use spirits.]

OTOH, though, if someone continually overeats after a lot of patience, kindness, understanding, and help has been offered, then a swift kick in the pants may be just what they need.

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by JCC

Because significant genetic predisposition to being a fatass is rare, it generally stems from poor diet and lack of exercise.

First, let me say that 10 pounds is not a basis for acting as if someone is morbidly obese.

Lack of exercise is a legitimate point. The water gets muddy when we talk about diet ... it costs more to eat healthy ... and the price goes up depending on how healthy you want to eat. Also, I can eat all sorts of things and not put on much weight at all, while my SO eats very small portions of things with a little fat or carbs in it and she puts on pounds. So it's not universally true that there is a standard by which we can criticize people's appearance and health because of their behavior. Since everyone HAS to eat, it is bit tricky.

But no one has to smoke. That is an entirely behavior based problem. Anyone under 40 has known their whole life that smoking is addictive and it's easier to never smoke that to start and then quit later. Why don't we ridicule the stupid smokers before we get on people about their weight?

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

But no one has to smoke. That is an entirely behavior based problem. Anyone under 40 has known their whole life that smoking is addictive and it's easier to never smoke that to start and then quit later. Why don't we ridicule the stupid smokers before we get on people about their weight?

Fat people are funnier.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

First, let me say that 10 pounds is not a basis for acting as if someone is morbidly obese.

Lack of exercise is a legitimate point. The water gets muddy when we talk about diet ... it costs more to eat healthy ... and the price goes up depending on how healthy you want to eat. Also, I can eat all sorts of things and not put on much weight at all, while my SO eats very small portions of things with a little fat or carbs in it and she puts on pounds. So it's not universally true that there is a standard by which we can criticize people's appearance and health because of their behavior. Since everyone HAS to eat, it is bit tricky.

While that's true, you don't have to be rich to eat well. Good, healthy food will fill you up much much better than crappy food, and will make you feel better in the long run as well.

To me, that's well worth the few extra cents or even dollars it costs to pick up a bunch of bananas instead a bag of Lay's potato chips.

But no one has to smoke. That is an entirely behavior based problem. Anyone under 40 has known their whole life that smoking is addictive and it's easier to never smoke that to start and then quit later. Why don't we ridicule the stupid smokers before we get on people about their weight?

But...I -do- ridicule smokers. I think smoking is an idiotic habit, with over-eating/bad diet very close behind. My sis had to quit while she healed from hip replacement surgery...AND THEN STARTED AGAIN!! It's absolutely infuriating, especially when she complains that we never visit. My husband and I are both highly allergic to cig smoke, and it just mystifies me why she can't understand that as long as she smokes, we can't stay in her house for very long.

/end rant

[Still Jack]

I don't actually really care if people are fat. As long as they don't bitch about being fat. If you don't like something about yourself, change it.

On the smoking point. I tend not to smoke around nonsmokers who are bothered with cigarette smoke, as long as I respect them.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Still Jack

I don't actually really care if people are fat. As long as they don't bitch about being fat. If you don't like something about yourself, change it.

In general, I agree, but it's never quite that simple, is it?

On the smoking point. I tend not to smoke around nonsmokers who are bothered with cigarette smoke, as long as I respect them.

*sigh*

[Still Jack]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

In general, I agree, but it's never quite that simple, is it?

Actually, it is. Especially in dietary terms. If you eat the diet of an average 115 pound person, then, eventually, you should attain that weight.

[Tam Li Hua]

That is the truth, SJ. What I meant was that changing long-standing, deeply-ingrained habits isn't always as simple as "just doing it".

Sometimes it is, but not always.

[Still Jack]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

That is the truth, SJ. What I meant was that changing long-standing, deeply-ingrained habits isn't always as simple as "just doing it".

Sometimes it is, but not always.

If someone wants something badly enough, they generally eventually get what they want because they're prepared to put in extra effort. The ones that don't get what they want don't want it badly enough.

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

To me, that's well worth the few extra cents or even dollars it costs to pick up a bunch of bananas instead a bag of Lay's potato chips.

That would be valid, but I wasn't talking about potato chips. I was talking about the difference between the price of fresh vegatables or fruit and the price of rice.

Also, you start eating a lot of bananas, you'll put on weight too. Other than that, I don't disagree with you greatly.

[Tam Li Hua]

SJ: I agree. Within reason, of course; someone with a terminal illness is sort of screwed, despite how much they may not want to be sick.

Ben: Well, obviously I meant in moderation. Rice is good for you in moderation as well, and is -certainly- better for you as a meal than, say, a can of Chef Boyardee.

[Still Jack]

Well a terminal illness is kind of obvious. Unless of course your prepared to die of something else before the illness kills you. But yeah.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

It's wrong to be prejudiced against people because of their race, creed or color. Lots of people posting in this thread have vehemently said so in posts all over this place (frequently in response to vindicatedxjin's blindingly racist posts.)

Most of us think it's wrong to make insensitive, derogatory statements about people based on their race, creed or color. We also know that some people are born with genetic and bio-chemical challenges to maintaining their weight.

So why isn't it wrong to make insensitive, derogatory statements about people based on their weight?
So why isn't it wrong to

I agree with this. Some people are genetically born to be fat. There are those people who, yes, basically ask to be fat.

But...

there are those people too who ask to belong to certain religion. And we still consider it wrong to make fun of religious beliefs.

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Ben: Well, obviously I meant in moderation. Rice is good for you in moderation as well, and is -certainly- better for you as a meal than, say, a can of Chef Boyardee.

Let's assume for the moment that many people know that chips, soda, McDonald's and Chef Boyardee are not the healthiest options for you out there (although they too are okay for you in moderation. My doctor says I can have McDonald's french fries once a week.) We agree that the ones that choose those kinds of junk food and fast food options as a staple of their diet are making a bad choice, so you can stop bringing them up. Not everyone is overweight because they eat too many snacks.

I was talking about the fact that people with low incomes have less choices to eat healthy. Sometimes they eat more than a "moderate" amount of rice because they can't afford broccoli. They buy too much pasta because it's cheap and lets them stretch their food budget. Not to mention the relationship between affluence and education. Or the relationship between poverty and social environment.

The media has done a good job demonizing junk and fast food. But at the level where people don't have a lot of money to spend on groceries, the whole concept of balanced meals and carefully scrutinizing labels doesn't get a lot of attention.

Sometimes it's because people are eating junk food. Sometimes it's not. It isn't always as simple as saying "If you ate less chips and more carrots you'd be healthier."

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

there are those people too who ask to belong to certain religion. And we still consider it wrong to make fun of religious beliefs.

Yes, irreligion is deemed very improper. Where the fuck have you been for the past century? Gorging yourself on cookies, I expect.

[Still Jack]

Irreligion is on the same level as fiancés killing their mothers.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

That would be valid, but I wasn't talking about potato chips. I was talking about the difference between the price of fresh vegatables or fruit and the price of rice.

Also, you start eating a lot of bananas, you'll put on weight too. Other than that, I don't disagree with you greatly.

Its not totally that hard. Right now my monthly grocery bill is usually around eighty dollars a month, and while beans and brown rice are a staple of my diet, I still get all my daily servings of fruits and veggies and am able to keep a variety. What can be hard is whole grain vs white bread/pasta (I usually have to wait for the whole grains to go on sale, white pasta you can buy in bulk usually) and the big kicker is eating organic, depending on the product it can be a lot more expensive.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

I agree with this. Some people are genetically born to be fat. There are those people who, yes, basically ask to be fat.

But...

there are those people too who ask to belong to certain religion. And we still consider it wrong to make fun of religious beliefs.

Unless one is an extremist, I've never heard of religion being harmful to someone's physical health. In fact, in most religions, a healthy body is encouraged.

[Tam Li Hua]

Ben: Let me rephrase. Chef B. is usually marketed not as a snack, but as a -very- inexpensive meal. I know that eating healthy costs more, and that it can be difficult on a low income; I've been there, done that myself. However, you can still make better choices on a low income, even if they aren't the best choices available to any consumer at any time.

For instance, it's better to buy a box of uncooked pasta and prepare it yourself than to buy a can of Chef B. It's better to fix yourself a [cheap] sandwich than it is to eat a cheap, instant pizza. It's better to drink a glass of water or juice instead of grabbing a 20 oz soda. It's better to eat ramen noodles -without- the included flavoring pack than it is with it. And so on and so forth.

I guess my thing is that I used the "more expensive" excuse for a long, long time because I didn't want to admit that, even in my limited budget, I could have made better choices than I did. Does that make sense?

[Solumina]

I just want to go on record saying that my shopping budget dropped significantly when Jake and I started getting serious about healthy eating. Remember frozen veggies can come pretty cheap as do canned, while some canned veggies aren't so good for you plenty of them are fantastic. Also making food from scratch is much cheaper than store bought, for the price of a jar of prego I can make about a gallon of much tastier and much healthier red sauce (and it honestly doesn't take any longer to make than the pasta itself). Less desirable cuts of meat can also be stretched quite far but many people don't really think about them. I'll use chicken as an example, the breast costs around $5.00 per pound and wings go for about $2.00 but you can get leg quarters for about $1.00 per pound (less if on sale, which they frequently are) and they are even more economical since you can use both the meat as well as the bones for soup stock.


As for the sociological point that is actually valid, most poor kids aren't really taught much about nutrition outside of the food pyramid and they generally aren't taught about finances so a lot of the time they don't know what foods are a good value.

[honeythorn]

I was 240 lbs, am now 190, should be around 145 ish. Getting there slowly but surely. I do an aerobics class on Monday evenings, Gym twice a week ( I have a program on a digital key which is a mix of cardio nd weights , I do one hour in total ) and swimming for 90 mins on sundays. Plus I walk home 4 times a week. It's 5 miles from work to my house, I do it in an hour at a quick march, and it's a series of long uphills and downhills so it's a pretty reasonable workout.

I don't know how cheap the fruit and veg markets are whee you lot live but here I find they're not too bad and don't cost too much really. My local greengrocer ( yes these still exist) has also been bought by a man my mother went to school with. His stuff is far cheaper than the last guy and much nicer too. I think we've been pretty lucky here though.

Don't forget, you could always have a crack at growing your own fruit and veg. You don't always need a garden or allotment either, as some fruit and veg can be grown in pots on balconies (potatoes, carrots and tomatoes for a start) . My brother grew strawberries in a hanging basket in his kitchen!

[Ben Lahnger]

Tam Li Hua, man, if you think having ramen noodles without the seasoning pack is a key to healthy eating, you are sorely misguided. And you keep avoiding my point or denying it. So, let me help you out with some information.

Below are some of interesting facts gleaned from this study by the American Dietetic Association titled "Is Price a Barrier to Eating More Fruits and Vegetables for Low-Income Families?"

* The dietary guidelines recommend 9 servings of fruits and veggies a day
* People with higher incomes are more likely to meet these dietary recommendations
* People who make less than $25,000 a year eat only about 5 servings a day
* Low-income neighborhoods often have higher food prices since these neighborhoods often have fewer and smaller supermarkets, which charge more
* Studies show that it costs about 17-19% more to eat healthier choices (e.g., whole-wheat instead of white bread, nonfat dairy, etc.).
* On average, low-income families would have to devote 43-70% of their food budget to meet the fruit and veggie dietary guidelines.

I'm always irritated that I have to pay more for whole wheat bread, low fat low cholesterol margarine and other healthy choices. But, I can't imagine how frustrating it is for people whose budgets don't allow them those choices.