Trouble in Juarez

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

(CNN) -- Has Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, been lost to the drug cartels?
Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, has already surpassed 2,000 homicides this year.

Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, has already surpassed 2,000 homicides this year.

New figures released to CNN on Wednesday by Mayor Jose Reyes Ferriz indicate the death toll for this year has already surpassed 2,000 homicides -- almost 400 more murders than the total count for 2008.

"It has been 22 months of this war, and it hasn't stopped. The violence has increased, and the possibility that it will stop is becoming more remote," Reyes Ferriz told CNN in a phone interview.

The mayor attributed the surge in drug-related violence to an influx of cartel groups. The rival Sinaloa and Juarez cartels are making their way to the city to participate in the warfare for the control of the smuggling route between Ciudad Juarez and El Paso, Texas. The Sinaloa cartel is headed by Mexico's most wanted man, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, according to authorities.

"The majority of the people detained and the bodies found are not from Ciudad Juarez. It is an intense battle between these two groups. The level of violence has reached new levels. Retaliation between the groups has become more violent and terrorizing," he said.

A government source close to the investigation told CNN about a case where a relative of a drug cartel member was tied to two trucks and stretched until his arms where ripped apart. Dismemberments and beheadings have become a common method of retaliation.

"The important thing for the population is that the large majority of these cases are criminals. We haven't had many cases in which the general population has been involved," said Reyes Ferriz.

According to Ciudad Juarez local government figures, about 100 of the homicides in 2009 have been "inocentes," or innocent bystanders, compared with around 30 of these types of homicides in 2008. This includes people caught in crossfire and relatives of cartel members.

Asked whether he sees a light at the end of the tunnel, the mayor said he is awaiting the arrival of 1,000 police cadets who recently graduated.

"The light has just arrived," he said. "We are beginning the second phase of our work. It took us year and a half to strengthen our police force. We are optimistic the surge in the police force will put us in a different place."

Reyes Ferriz says in the past six weeks, 22 people have been detained in 800 homicides and now await prosecution.

[HumanePain]

In our current legal environment, buying drugs equals buying death for someone. We need to fix the root cause: illegal drug demand in the U.S.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Then the answer is simple H.P. make the drugs Legal.

[Solumina]

Legalization is a smart idea, sure some of them are really bad and ideally nobody would do them but it is better to have them regulated and the government could make money from taxes similar to those on tobacco and alcohol instead of sinking loads of funds into fighting an unsuccessful war on drugs.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Solumina

Legalization is a smart idea, sure some of them are really bad and ideally nobody would do them but it is better to have them regulated and the government could make money from taxes similar to those on tobacco and alcohol instead of sinking loads of funds into fighting an unsuccessful war on drugs.

I think Portugal did that, actually.

[LakitaJackson]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

Then the answer is simple H.P. make the drugs Legal.

flawless job stating the obvious...

CRACK FO' EVERYONE!

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

I think Portugal did that, actually.

Almost three years ago actually. Crime is down immensely, there are less reported overdoses, and there has been no rise in the number of users due to legalisation.

They are not the only ones - I had a list posted in another thread here listing other countries which have done the same.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by LakitaJackson

flawless job stating the obvious...

CRACK FO' EVERYONE!

If that's what you want to do and you are of legal age,go for it.

I'd rather stick with weed myself.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

If that's what you want to do and you are of legal age,go for it.

I'd rather stick with weed myself.

If you are of legal age for crack? What are you fucking on about?

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by JCC

If you are of legal age for crack? What are you fucking on about?

If you're of Legal age to drink Wine or Whiskey you should be able to smoke weed,snort cocaine,or do a shit load of Meth (Your choice because it's your body).

[Alan]

And no age below that has choice over their own body?

[SweetJane]

NAFTA hasn't helped the poverty levels, and that's part of the reason why these drug cartels have so much power and influence in the region. America's demand for drugs has little to do with it; there are plenty of places that these people can export drugs to, and there are plenty of grow and manufacture operations in America, Canada, Cuba and elsewhere to supply America's need for drugs. It's the death-grip of globalism that's causing this.

[Renatus]

I saw an interesting episode of Law and order SVU tonight, well not an interesting episode but an interesting drug in the episode. It cured a drug addict of his addiction in somthing less than an hour, the only problem is it wasnt legal yet. What I'm curious about is if this drug is real, and if so how soon can we use it to wipe out drug addiction. Think of all the lives that could be saved from using addictive drugs and providing addictive drugs, and all the billions of dollars that could be saved in medical costs as well as in crime prevention.

[Solumina]

As far as I know the closest thing is what they call a rapid detox (which takes far more than an hour) and it is actually a pretty bad choice for addicts, there is a much higher rate of relapsing if an addict doesn't go though the whole withdrawing process.

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by Solumina

As far as I know the closest thing is what they call a rapid detox (which takes far more than an hour) and it is actually a pretty bad choice for addicts, there is a much higher rate of relapsing if an addict doesn't go though the whole withdrawing process.

Nah that doesnt fit the description of the drug I remember, this one had like a 91% success rate.

[viscus]

I understand wanting freedom to do as you will with your own body, but I'd recommend meeting a junkie to anyone who thinks it's a good idea to legalize/decriminalize every drug under the sun.

That said, trying to solve the problem from the supply side is a bad idea.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Renatus

Nah that doesnt fit the description of the drug I remember, this one had like a 91% success rate.

A short term success rate that high would be expected but long term rates are a very different story, plus as I said I don't believe that the drug in the show is something real.

[Delkaetre]

viscus, I know quite a few people who use a variety of things, including one current and one ex- heroin user.
While addiction is a horrible thing and does decimate lives, legalising and taxing drugs- even or especially the worst ones- makes it much easier to treat addiction. More money can be put into detox programs or legal medicinal prescriptions, and acquisitive crime should drop in accordance with legal availability and help. It also makes it easier for addicts to come forward and seek help, instead of being scared of being arrested.

Addiction is horrible, yes. So is alcoholism. But at least having the stuff legal means there are standards of quality that must be followed and addicts can get help.

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by Solumina

A short term success rate that high would be expected but long term rates are a very different story, plus as I said I don't believe that the drug in the show is something real.

Well I didnt see anything that said that you didn't think it was real, but oh well, we can always dream. Cookie?

[Solumina]

Sorry, I'll try to be clearer with my wording, it would be nice for something to be that easy and effective, one of the shitty side effect of being human though is that if there is a quick fix people will start to get back into bad habits, so suffering is actually a large part of what helps us break the cycle of addiction.


I'd love a cookie, would you like some tea to go along with our cookies? Or perhaps hot coco?

[viscus]

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

viscus, I know quite a few people who use a variety of things, including one current and one ex- heroin user.
While addiction is a horrible thing and does decimate lives, legalising and taxing drugs- even or especially the worst ones- makes it much easier to treat addiction. More money can be put into detox programs or legal medicinal prescriptions, and acquisitive crime should drop in accordance with legal availability and help. It also makes it easier for addicts to come forward and seek help, instead of being scared of being arrested.

Addiction is horrible, yes. So is alcoholism. But at least having the stuff legal means there are standards of quality that must be followed and addicts can get help.

I'm all for treating it like more of a public health issue and less of a criminal one, but legalizing substance use sends the message that substance use is a socially acceptable thing to do, which in the case of highly addictive drugs it most certainly isn't.

Plus, I don't think bringing corporations and their marketing departments into the mix is going to help decrease the rate of addiction.

Alcohol is something that most people can consume in moderation, so I don't think that's valid comparison.

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by Solumina

Sorry, I'll try to be clearer with my wording, it would be nice for something to be that easy and effective, one of the shitty side effect of being human though is that if there is a quick fix people will start to get back into bad habits, so suffering is actually a large part of what helps us break the cycle of addiction.


I'd love a cookie, would you like some tea to go along with our cookies? Or perhaps hot coco?

Gah, a tough choice, both great drinks, both can go well with cookies. Hmm, but I'll have to go with hot chocolate since this is cookies we are dealing with. We can have tea with scones later.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by viscus

I'm all for treating it like more of a public health issue and less of a criminal one, but legalizing substance use sends the message that substance use is a socially acceptable thing to do, which in the case of highly addictive drugs it most certainly isn't.

Plus, I don't think bringing corporations and their marketing departments into the mix is going to help decrease the rate of addiction.

Alcohol is something that most people can consume in moderation, so I don't think that's valid comparison.

I'm willing to wager the numbers on Alcoholics vs tweakers is pretty close.

Legalizing them would NOT increase addiction levels, countries have legalized the drugs and in most cases addiction levels fell. For one thing, when people don't have to mix, cook, or prep drugs in their basement or car, things tend to be of higher and purer quality.

Ideally people wouldn't do it, but I'd much rather have someone buy pure, safe Coke from a licensed place than from shady banger in a back alley.

[viscus]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

Legalizing them would NOT increase addiction levels, countries have legalized the drugs and in most cases addiction levels fell. For one thing, when people don't have to mix, cook, or prep drugs in their basement or car, things tend to be of higher and purer quality.

Which countries are those, if you don't mind me asking?

Certainly not the Netherlands. Weed isn't even legal there, strictly speaking, just heavily decriminalized.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by viscus

Which countries are those, if you don't mind me asking?

Certainly not the Netherlands. Weed isn't even legal there, strictly speaking, just heavily decriminalized.

Sternn mentioned a thread, I know Portugal is one of them.