Gypsy and Nomad Rights

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Mr.Doobie

There's a difference between some obvious troll screaming "I HATE ******S" than disappearing while everyone rabblerabblerabbles behind them, and what is going on in this thread, which has been an active discussion for pages, between forum members that are seemingly respectable and intelligent...So what do we do about the Travelers? I don't know. I doubt there is a "solution". Maybe we just have to accept that until either mankind dies, or there's some gigantic, global, awakening in thought, there will be thieving Travelers.

...Catch, you're still a moron.

That was a very good post sure.

One last thing I would like to note - the EU is well on it's way to fix the problem across all of Europe. Did ye know up until like 10 years ago you didn't need a drivers license in Ireland to drive? You could buy a car, hop in and drive around with no license or insurance. It was madness. Today we need a license and insurance, but even now our licenses are printed out from a standard printer on normal paper and half of the details are hand written and our picture is literally taped on the front. A 10 year old with a standard home printer can make a flawless forgery in about 20 minutes if they wanted. This is currently true throughout the EU. Hell, the UK licenses didn't even have a picture on them until a few years ago. New EU laws that have been adopted by all EU nations have directives that require member states to meet certain criteria. Many of these include updating ID systems. One of the reasons the Travellers could get by for so long was you didn't need an ID, and they found themselves in a situation where they did, they would simply manufacture one. This is true of many criminals in Europe, not just Travellers.

New passports have already been introduced which meet all the security standards of the US passports. In the next few years ALL EU countries will have new ID's with biometric details and there will be laws introduced to make sure everyone carries them at all times, plus they will be used to get various social services and open bank accounts and cash checks. Right now you can get social welfare, cash a check, and open a bank account in Ireland with nothing more than a handshake in many areas. With this culture going away, so to will those who have benefited from having a veil of anonymity to mask their actions.

[Catch]

Maybe you should round them up and give them homes? That would work wouldn't it, because apparently people who live in static locations and own home built on a foundation never have any problems. They never jump the national boarders to screw up someone else's town to avoid the po-po after a week of drunken violence, road rage and r@pe. They never have problems finding work and become a public annoyance. The definitely never get together with their friends for a huge house party and walk away for someone else to clean everything up. Yep, them's people be alright.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by Catch

Maybe you should round them up and give them homes? That would work wouldn't it, because apparently people who live in static locations and own home built on a foundation never have any problems. They never jump the national boarders to screw up someone else's town to avoid the po-po after a week of drunken violence, road rage and r@pe. They never have problems finding work and become a public annoyance. The definitely never get together with their friends for a huge house party and walk away for someone else to clean everything up. Yep, them's people be alright.

Thanks for proving my final point in my post. Watching you debate is akin to watching some blind kid with Down's Syndrome repeatedly stick their head in the open jaws of a crocodile.

[JCC]

Thinking something is funny just by virtue of mentioning people suffering from Down's Syndrome says it all really.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by JCC

Thinking something is funny just by virtue of mentioning people suffering from Down's Syndrome says it all really.

Well aren't you just the saintliest little piece of shit ever.

[Grausamkeit]

Originally Posted by Mr.Doobie

Well aren't you just the saintliest little piece of shit ever.

Of course he is, just look at his avatar.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by Mr.Doobie

Well aren't you just the saintliest little piece of shit ever.

Ok, that wasn't fair.

What I will say is I don't exactly see that mental image as funny, so much as depressing. Watching someone repeatedly putting themselves in a situation they can't fully comprehend, that will just end with them getting their head bitten off.

Of course he is, just look at his avatar.

Don't help me.

[Grausamkeit]

I wasn't helping you, dumbass. I was being sarcastic. Don't get cocky.

[Grausamkeit]

Originally Posted by Grausamkeit

I wasn't helping you, dumbass. I was being sarcastic. Don't get cocky.

This message is hidden because Mr.Doobie is on your ignore list.

That's better, cuts down on the inane banality.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Grausamkeit

That's better, cuts down on the inane banality.

GRAUSAMKEIT STRIKES AGAIN seriously

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by JCC

GRAUSAMKEIT STRIKES AGAIN seriously

If he's going to block everyone who tells him to fuck off he's going to be in a mighty lonely forum.

[CptSternn]

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/conte...s_charity_chat

Wow, an almost identical scenario is now playing out in Texas.

[Grausamkeit]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/conte...s_charity_chat

Wow, an almost identical scenario is now playing out in Texas.

Wow, that's just retarded...I'm sure that everyone here has probably already heard about the idea put forth to take a 'certain word' out of Mark Twain's book Huckleberry Finn. You can't ban words and pretend that everything has always been a PC wonderland. It would change the meaning of the work they are used in and take a lot away from the message they are meant to portray.

Anyway.../offtopicness

[CptSternn]

Living outside of society allows parents to get away with a lot.

There are a few more of these which are now coming to light.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...h-2822342.html

A MOTHER was jailed for eight years yesterday, following a litany of horrific physical and psychological abuse against her eight children over almost a decade.

Last night, an independent investigation was launched into how the abuse had continued for so long, given that the family had previously come to the attention of social workers.

In Galway Circuit Criminal Court, Judge Raymond Groarke described the plight of the six daughters and two sons as a "story of a huge human tragedy beyond description".

One of the woman's daughters said: "She wasn't a mother to me, she was an evil bitch."

The investigation will examine what concerns, if any, were raised by social workers when the HSE came into contact with the family in 2000. It will also investigate what steps were taken to protect the children.

The 47-year-old woman yesterday pleaded guilty to eight offences of assault and neglect of her eight children over a seven-year period from May 2002 to June 2009.

The court listened in stunned silence as the offences committed by the mother -- a Traveller -- on her children, from their childhood years into their adult lives, were detailed.

The court heard the eldest daughter was beaten constantly by the mother and often had to go without clothes.

She was forced to beg for money, which her mother then used for alcohol and cigarettes. The daughter told gardai how the mother had sex in front of her children.

In her victim-impact statement, the daughter said that when she grew up and had her own family, the mother would often take away her dole, leaving her with barely enough to feed her own children.

"I think about killing myself and only for my kids, I would have done it," she said.

The woman recalled how her mother threw weapons at her when she was angry.

At the age of 13, she was knocked unconscious and hospitalised when hit with a bottle. It was the only time she was brought to hospital.

The mother would often abandon her children for up to a week, leaving them without food or clothes.

The court heard that not a day went by when one daughter or other was not beaten. On one occasion, the mother looked on when a knife was stuck into the second daughter's arm.

Another time, vice grips were locked on to her ear, nose and lips and left there for an hour while she screamed for help.

In a separate incident, a child was tied to a horse and both were whipped by the mother so that the horse would gallop away. During the incident, the horse fell on top of the girl.

The court heard that one son was beaten severely so the mother could pretend "he was handicapped and claim money for them".

A daughter told in her victim-impact statement that she was frightened her mother would get back out of prison.

Det Garda Kieran McNamara told the court that the woman made her children's lives "a living hell".

While the HSE had been in contact with the family since 2000, Judge Groarke said he found it incredible that such a series of inactions could go on for such a long period of time with little or no outside intervention.

Slaves

"These children were prisoners and slaves in their own homes," he said.

Commenting that the woman showed no remorse and had imposed a life sentence on her children, he imposed a 24-year jail term with 16 years suspended. The sentence was backdated to 2009.

Last night the HSE declined to comment on the case.

However, a statement confirmed that an investigation into its involvement with the family was being carried out.

"This case has been referred to the National Review Panel, led by independent chair Helen Buckley, in keeping with the HIQA Guidance," it said.

"The review group is currently assessing the HSE's involvement with the family."

Meanwhile, the Irish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children said people should not be shocked that such abuse was still happening.

Spokesperson Lloyd Byrne said: "Unfortunately, a lot of abuse happens within the family home and it's very hard to see what goes on in the home."

[CptSternn]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-at-Proms.html

Gipsies move into immigration officer's home while she spent night away at Proms
Immigration officer Julia High told of her distress last night after she returned home from a night out at the Proms to discover a group of Roman gipsies “squatting” in her house.

[Catch]

I don't know how you can hate Gypsies. Look at this and say you still hate Gypsies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HAUmII_hcg

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Catch

I don't know how you can hate Gypsies. Look at this and say you still hate Gypsies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HAUmII_hcg

You see all that opulence? Then they live in caravans and claim welfare off the state because they claim to have no money. Yet weddings, christenings, engagements, and any other event they have huge gatherings and spend tens of thousands...and the next day go back to claiming they are broke and need government assistance all the while living illegally on other peoples property.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

living illegally on other peoples property.

I thought you called yourself a marxist.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Alan

I thought you called yourself a marxist.

So because I don't want a group of random yobs pulling up in an old van living in my backgarden drinking all day selling drugs and having loud parties throwing their rubbish and other waste all over my garden and pissing on the side of my house I am no longer considered a Marxist?

[Alan]

If you think you have primacy over a piece of land to the point where you can call it "mine!", you are unapologetically bigoted towards a minority and exclusively blame them for their circumstances instead of asking what would the socioeconomic context be that put them in their situation, and you cannot understand that nomadic cultures will invariably have no respect for the concept of "private property", then yeah, you're not a marxist.

[MissCheyenne]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

So because I don't want a group of random yobs pulling up in an old van living in my backgarden drinking all day selling drugs and having loud parties throwing their rubbish and other waste all over my garden and pissing on the side of my house I am no longer considered a Marxist?

See now, the area I live in, apart from maybe the actual LIVING in my garden, this is pretty standard behaviour for a lot of the people on this estate. They sell drugs/manufacture/grow drugs, throw massive parties, constantly have the police called out to deal with their obnoxious, anti social behaviour, think nothing of pissing in the middle of the street/up someones house (the women included), their kids run wild, destroying people's gardens, stealing, drinking and generally being a nusiance. They throw rubbish all over the place and generally bother anyone they feel like. They also have fairly lavish lifestyles, weddings and other assorted gatherings/celebrations, certainly more lavish than I would expect them to be able to afford given the very high level of unemployment and teen pregnancy in this area. They aren't gypsys. They all live in nice council provided accomodation, claim all manner of benefits and most of them have a better lifestyle than me and I work. So, are they better than gypsy folk simply because they live in an actual house?

[Saya]

Originally Posted by MissCheyenne

See now, the area I live in, apart from maybe the actual LIVING in my garden, this is pretty standard behaviour for a lot of the people on this estate. They sell drugs/manufacture/grow drugs, throw massive parties, constantly have the police called out to deal with their obnoxious, anti social behaviour, think nothing of pissing in the middle of the street/up someones house (the women included), their kids run wild, destroying people's gardens, stealing, drinking and generally being a nusiance. They throw rubbish all over the place and generally bother anyone they feel like. They also have fairly lavish lifestyles, weddings and other assorted gatherings/celebrations, certainly more lavish than I would expect them to be able to afford given the very high level of unemployment and teen pregnancy in this area. They aren't gypsys. They all live in nice council provided accomodation, claim all manner of benefits and most of them have a better lifestyle than me and I work. So, are they better than gypsy folk simply because they live in an actual house?

Sounds like my experience living in a dorm on campus!

[MissCheyenne]

I really wish I was exaggerating what it's like here but it is exactly like that. I can't walk down the street without being harassed, dodging piles of broken glass/dirty nappies/half a dildo (yeah, seriously). It's not fair to say that only gypsys behave like that. I'm sure there are SOME that do but I really don't think they all do and I have met quite a few families who were gypsys/travellers. Some of them were dicks but the majority of them were really nice and just wanted to be left alone to get on with their lives. I don't see why they should be bothered as long as they aren't hurting anyone.

[Catch]

Originally Posted by Alan

If you think you have primacy over a piece of land to the point where you can call it "mine!", you are unapologetically bigoted towards a minority and exclusively blame them for their circumstances instead of asking what would the socioeconomic context be that put them in their situation, and you cannot understand that nomadic cultures will invariably have no respect for the concept of "private property", then yeah, you're not a marxist.

Damn! Burn on You CPT!

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by MissCheyenne

See now, the area I live in, apart from maybe the actual LIVING in my garden, this is pretty standard behaviour for a lot of the people on this estate. They sell drugs/manufacture/grow drugs, throw massive parties, constantly have the police called out to deal with their obnoxious, anti social behaviour, think nothing of pissing in the middle of the street/up someones house (the women included), their kids run wild, destroying people's gardens, stealing, drinking and generally being a nusiance. They throw rubbish all over the place and generally bother anyone they feel like. They also have fairly lavish lifestyles, weddings and other assorted gatherings/celebrations, certainly more lavish than I would expect them to be able to afford given the very high level of unemployment and teen pregnancy in this area. They aren't gypsys. They all live in nice council provided accomodation, claim all manner of benefits and most of them have a better lifestyle than me and I work. So, are they better than gypsy folk simply because they live in an actual house?

No, but my point is if they decided to move a caravan into your garden, and continue the same behaviour, would you not have a problem with that?